Corrected title: Now the GOP has accomplished massive tax reform

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Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
LOL! Where else are they going to dump their money - the democrats?!
Wealthy contributor's lust for control of Washington won't end because tax 'reform' ends. Maybe there will be a pullback if they can't bilk more money out of congress, but they'll hardly stop since they have been largely successful so far.

I get the point, we'll put all ethical concerns about Political Donations and PAC's aside.
Basically the donors are saying if you can't get this done just like you failed on healthcare, why am I throwing good money after bad results. I may as well hold on to my money or donate to a Democrat and hopefully get better results.
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,784
2,336
136
I'm a bit puzzled why these guys would talk about their big contributors getting pissed off in public. The only ones who really care I would think are in their own ranks. Does this really help them even with the GOP base? I wouldn't think so, it just makes them come across as (even more than we already figured) corrupt.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,849
136
I'm a bit puzzled why these guys would talk about their big contributors getting pissed off in public. The only ones who really care I would think are in their own ranks. Does this really help them even with the GOP base? I wouldn't think so, it just makes them come across as (even more than we already figured) corrupt.

Yes, they're talking to their membership.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
I get the point, we'll put all ethical concerns about Political Donations and PAC's aside.
Basically the donors are saying if you can't get this done just like you failed on healthcare, why am I throwing good money after bad results. I may as well hold on to my money or donate to a Democrat and hopefully get better results.

It would be sad if Democrats took the money, considering the strings attached.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
I get the point, we'll put all ethical concerns about Political Donations and PAC's aside.
Basically the donors are saying if you can't get this done just like you failed on healthcare, why am I throwing good money after bad results. I may as well hold on to my money or donate to a Democrat and hopefully get better results.

Or their worst nightmare: pump it into primary challengers.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,557
27,861
136
go to tacos por favor in santa monica. Get the hard tacos and make sure to grab the red sauce.
That's a few blocks from where we will be staying in a couple months so I've added it to the list along with Saffron and Rose ice cream in Westwood. On the LA theme, where be a good used CD store in LA if world music were desired? Also, any instrument stores that might sell decent new or used ouds and/or parlor guitars?
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
I'm a bit puzzled why these guys would talk about their big contributors getting pissed off in public. The only ones who really care I would think are in their own ranks. Does this really help them even with the GOP base? I wouldn't think so, it just makes them come across as (even more than we already figured) corrupt.

Well at least they are being honest for once.

It's obvious that's the only people they give a shit about. Middle class people who voted R are dumb as hell. None of what they do is for them except for guns and social issues.

Meanwhile they let the plutocrats loot the Treasury.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
A nice thought, but money is like heroin to a politician, just look at the GOP.

It wouldn't be much the first time. The big money goes to proven performers. The big money Repub donors are basically financing 50 farm teams & want to advance the best toady talent to the big league in DC. They've done it well.

And now they mean to have their tax cuts if they have to beat the cash out of their minions...

Voters? You won't have any voters if they set out to break your balls...
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
8,090
5,086
146
Here's the Senate's revision. Eh. Eventually they'll rework it enough that there won't be any changes to the existing tax code and everybody will be happy. Or it will just die like their Obamacare Repeal™.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/09/news/economy/senate-republican-tax-bill/index.html

I read this afternoon that they were originally going to eliminate all state and local tax deductions (including real estate), but it seems they let up on the real estate tax and are allowing itemizing up to $10,000. That alone probably would have killed it.

The proposed tax brackets look weird...
Change individual income tax brackets: There are seven brackets in today's individual tax code: 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33%, 35%, 39.6%.

The Senate bill will call for seven brackets but changes them to: 10%, 12%, 22.5%, 25%, 32.5%, 35% and 38.5%. It was not immediately clear how much of one's income would apply to each of those rates.

The House bill, by contrast, only calls for four brackets: 12%, 25%, 35% and 39.6%.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Here's the Senate's revision. Eh. Eventually they'll rework it enough that there won't be any changes to the existing tax code and everybody will be happy. Or it will just die like their Obamacare Repeal™.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/09/news/economy/senate-republican-tax-bill/index.html

I read this afternoon that they were originally going to eliminate all state and local tax deductions (including real estate), but it seems they let up on the real estate tax and are allowing itemizing up to $10,000. That alone probably would have killed it.

The proposed tax brackets look weird...

It's the old shell game. The hand is quicker than the eye, and so are the Repubs...
 

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,689
294
126
www.bradlygsmith.org
I had to laugh at this excerpt from Tim Scott's speech on the senate floor. It was on tonight's PBS Newshour: "Tax reform is not about numbers, it's about putting more money in the pockets of average Americans."
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,574
146
That's a few blocks from where we will be staying in a couple months so I've added it to the list along with Saffron and Rose ice cream in Westwood. On the LA theme, where be a good used CD store in LA if world music were desired? Also, any instrument stores that might sell decent new or used ouds and/or parlor guitars?

Look, Old Man...I have no idea what you are talking about here.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,849
136
Here's the Senate's revision. Eh. Eventually they'll rework it enough that there won't be any changes to the existing tax code and everybody will be happy. Or it will just die like their Obamacare Repeal™.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/09/news/economy/senate-republican-tax-bill/index.html

I read this afternoon that they were originally going to eliminate all state and local tax deductions (including real estate), but it seems they let up on the real estate tax and are allowing itemizing up to $10,000. That alone probably would have killed it.

The proposed tax brackets look weird...

The Senate version also appears to cause deficits past the 10 year window, making it unable to be passed via reconciliation. LOL.

What a clusterfuck.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Also I'm making the call at this point: The tax reform bills (as they stand, unless they COMPLETELY revise them in full) will flop just like the obummercare repeals did. This is freaking horrible. I'm all for getting rid of deductions, but not as a trade-off for helping the rich by repealing the estate tax.

I'm not even in favor of the estate tax, it's just the fact that they are trading off an upper middle class deduction in favor of helping out the uber-upper-class.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,634
8,778
146
Also I'm making the call at this point: The tax reform bills (as they stand, unless they COMPLETELY revise them in full) will flop just like the obummercare repeals did. This is freaking horrible. I'm all for getting rid of deductions, but not as a trade-off for helping the rich by repealing the estate tax.

I'm not even in favor of the estate tax, it's just the fact that they are trading off an upper middle class deduction in favor of helping out the uber-upper-class.
This isn't horrible. It's wonderful. The mid-term campaign slogans are writing themselves. "The GOP. We just can't govern".
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
It's going to destroy them with the upper middle class who is asked to shoulder the bill for this whole boondoggle.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,849
136
Also I'm making the call at this point: The tax reform bills (as they stand, unless they COMPLETELY revise them in full) will flop just like the obummercare repeals did. This is freaking horrible. I'm all for getting rid of deductions, but not as a trade-off for helping the rich by repealing the estate tax.

I'm not even in favor of the estate tax, it's just the fact that they are trading off an upper middle class deduction in favor of helping out the uber-upper-class.

Or they'll pass something close and the upper middle class will get to wake up next year with their big deductions suddenly gone, after years of being told to vote R or else their taxes will go up.

haha
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
This isn't horrible. It's wonderful. The mid-term campaign slogans are writing themselves. "The GOP. We just can't govern".

Both sides are children, which is why I was stating that we need to have bill passage that is only possible with 70-80% of the vote. That way, no one will have this partisan bullshit of only needing 50%. If 70-80% was required to pass a bill, it's IMPOSSIBLE to be partisan.

Or they'll pass something close and the upper middle class will get to wake up next year with their big deductions suddenly gone, after years of being told to vote R or else their taxes will go up.

haha

I'm betting on it all failing tbh. Too much leverage where we have representatives and senators from states that depend on these deductions... and too few of them knowing that just 3 republican senators will make it fail. But we shall see....
 

SmCaudata

Senior member
Oct 8, 2006
969
1,532
136
The lack of common sense and critical thinking ability in this country is astounding.

On budget (and healthcare):
  • Supply side economics (trickle down) doesn't work when your supply is already adequate and your demand sucks because of money. Taking money from the high spend consumers (low and middle class) will lead to less spending. Bad for the economy.
  • Decreasing corporate tax rate will lead to hoarding of cash (especially while leaving existing loopholes and deductions), NOT reinvestment. That is a no-brainier, especially when supply isn't an issue. Why expand if there is no market? See above. If anything, we should get rid of payroll taxes for the first $50k and then have huge luxury/windfall taxes on salaries+benefits greater than $500k. We could also give tax breaks for companies that provide over 80% of their workforce insurance and penalties if they don't. This would lead to increasing employee pay and benefits as it would otherwise be wasted in tax dollars. Everyone wins as workers would have more to spend, leading to business expansion.
  • Businesses have already shown that they have no intention of paying workers more unless they are forced to do so (or highly encouraged through tax benefits). CEOs and big businesses have continued to make money hand over fist. If they ever had intention of increasing salaries, they would have already.
  • Health care - this is a budget issue - would be instantly 40% less expensive if insurance companies were eliminated. Hospitals could significantly decrease their billing departments and insurance companies would no longer take their cut. Also, you'd have a healthier, more productive society if everyone had better access to healthcare.
  • Health care for all will also mean that people on government assistance will not avoid jobs due to fear of losing coverage when they make money. People are currently incentivized to NOT get off of government assistance programs.
  • All income should be taxed equally as income. Stock options, capital gains, etc... Income is income. this is simply fair and the right thing to do and making this change would help the vast majority of the country by allowing lower taxes.

Tax cuts for the rich only make the rich richer. they have ZERO benefit for the economy or society as a whole. This has been repeatedly proven. Anyone who thinks otherwise is completely brainwashed, stupid, or rich and greedy. I think that we can all agree that we'd like to see more people working for a living and fewer people needing government assistance to function. A few common sense changes could make that a reality.
 
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