Corrected title: Now the GOP has accomplished massive tax reform

[KMFJD]

If they are proposing large tax cuts, it's going to have the same result that it did under GWB and Reagan. The deficit and debt will mushroom. Trump wants to raise military and border security spending, and he doesn't have anywhere near the cuts necessary to cover the budget shortfall. Amazing that so many people still think the GOP is the party of fiscal responsibility when it's past history and current actions scream the opposite.

Are you sure? You mean going into debt and taking a pay cut does not help with repayments of the debt? We've been lied to by Saint Reagan etc? (PBUH)

I'm shocked....

 

[Puffnstuff]

I don't see why, it's just fake news anyways.

Like those fake new numbers that will appear on the working poor's pay stubs as the GOP vampire continues to draw more blood from them.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Like those fake new numbers that will appear on the working poor's pay stubs as the GOP vampire continues to draw more blood from them.

They're banking on automation, and low success education to win the hearts of americans. Because apparently the wool is easily pulled over 'Murican's eyes.

 

[Puffnstuff]

They're banking on automation, and low success education to win the hearts of americans. Because apparently the wool is easily pulled over 'Murican's eyes.

Education produces too much resistance for them so of course they disapprove of it. Who wants educated people with critical thinking skills who can see the truth and resist their BS?

 

[ch33zw1z]

I wish we were joking...

 

[cytg111]

I cant wait to hear his base of 59'ers how they feel about the prospect of getting almost screwed again by their dear leader... Someone should put together the math for a hypothetical trumpcare+trumptax for a lower and middle class household...

 

[Homerboy]

wow op, sounds awful. boooo booo, not my president..

I will bet my tax cuts against your tax cuts on this quote?

 

[soulcougher73]

Cant have a GOP tax thread without the obligatory:

 

[fskimospy]

I cant wait to hear his base of 59'ers how they feel about the prospect of getting almost screwed again by their dear leader... Someone should put together the math for a hypothetical trumpcare+trumptax for a lower and middle class household...

Assuming this tax plan is passed as it is reported, (unlikely) I wonder how his base would feel about a nationwide decline in housing prices of about 7-10% and the resulting financial instability that would cause.

 

[Thump553]

The first thing to do when discussing their proposal is to drop the word "reform"-shifting the tax burden from the rich to the middle class is the antithesis of reform. It really should be called something like the GOP Proposal to Restructure Taxes.

One other thing to remember for those considering this might not be a bad idea to experiment on (even though it has horrendously failed at least twice so far) is the most scared pledge any GOP office holder makes is the pledge to never increase taxes. Once they squeeze through these cuts, no matter how ill-advised they appear down the road, the cuts are permanent. We will have to cut entitlements, military spending (yeah, right) or VA benefits to prevent the deficit from ballooning even further.

It may be premature to label this as a dumb idea-after all we have little more than a sketch scribbled on a cocktail napkin at this stage-but it has all the earmarks of one.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Cant have a GOP tax thread without the obligatory:

Wealthy executives get golden parachutes and poor working people get the golden showers.

 

[dainthomas]

Assuming this tax plan is passed as it is reported, (unlikely) I wonder how his base would feel about a nationwide decline in housing prices of about 7-10% and the resulting financial instability that would cause.

No problem. Blame the libruhls, or maybe immigrants/refugees.

 

[K1052]

Truth finally coming into the open....

 

[fskimospy]

Truth finally coming into the open....

From OntheIssues.com (which bizarrely mistakenly lists him as a democratic senate candidate):

Across America, families are required to live within a budget because they understand that you cannot spend more than you take in. Yet, Washington does not understand this basic idea. Washington is on a spending spree that's hurting our economy. It's time that we go back to the basics and balance the budget.

Deficit spending is affecting the economy as well. John supports a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution. Just like American families, Congress must learn to live within its means.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Economic/John_Neely_Kennedy_Budget_+_Economy.htm

lol. This is either a very stupid man or a very dishonest one.

 

[K1052]

Finally giving up the charade to cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations while finding no ways to pay for it.

 

[fskimospy]

Finally giving up the charade to cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations while finding no ways to pay for it.

I sincerely doubt they are giving up the charade. They will claim this is a middle class tax cut no matter how much it benefits the wealthy and then they will claim that it will be paid for through increased economic growth. They have only begun to start lying about this tax cut, that much I promise you.

What's most interesting about this tax cut though is that they seem to be adding an extra level of red state vs. blue state conflict into it that has been absent until recently. (their health care bill was another example of explicitly attacking Democratic leaning states) If they keep sticking with the 'attack states that didn't vote for us' model that's going to seriously exacerbate the political instability that we're already experiencing.

 

[K1052]

I sincerely doubt they are giving up the charade. They will claim this is a middle class tax cut no matter how much it benefits the wealthy and then they will claim that it will be paid for through increased economic growth. They have only begun to start lying about this tax cut, that much I promise you.

What's most interesting about this tax cut though is that they seem to be adding an extra level of red state vs. blue state conflict into it that has been absent until recently. (their health care bill was another example of explicitly attacking Democratic leaning states) If they keep sticking with the 'attack states that didn't vote for us' model that's going to seriously exacerbate the political instability that we're already experiencing.

Seems like at least a partial admission they were full of shit. Though yes, just like healthcare, they'll try to sell this as helping the middle class and attempt to mug blue states again.

Not sure that's going to do wonders for the longevity of GOP reps from blue states...

 

[dullard]

Floating out there...
Cutting corporate tax rate from 35 to 20

I'm okay with cutting the tax rate, iff they cut loopholes and corporate welfare at the same time to make this roughly budget neutral. I doubt that will happen.

Cutting top tax rate 39.6 to 35%

Basically a massive handout to the one group that least needs the handout. I oppose.

RAISING bottom tax rate from 10 to 12

I'm actually okay with that, iff there are other offsets to make this roughly revenue neutral for the poor.

Going from 7 tax brackets to 3

Red herring. If there are 3 brackets or 1,000,000,000 it makes no real difference in the complexity or fairness of the tax code. You still look up your tax on a table or online calculator no matter how many brackets there are. I'm neutral on this, depending of course on what the actual brackets are I might change my mind.

Doubling standard deduction

I'm all on board with this, iff they make this budget neutral.

Removing head of household filing status

I'm all on board with this. It slashes the amount of effort to file taxes (assuming of course you wanted to game the system to pay the least amount of taxes).

Removing individual deductions (i.e. no more claiming your kids, yourself, etc. for a deduction)

Those families with 19 children might start paying taxes. I can be for this, iff there are other changes to make this roughly budget neutral.

Removing mortgage and state/local tax deductions

I'm all for this. No reason for the federal government to keep subsidizing the states with the state/local tax deductions. Ironically, this gives more power to the federal government, which is the opposite of what the GOP claims to want. Plus it was never fair as states all were different and the mortgage deduction was easy to game. The mortgage deduction would be a difficult pill to swallow but it is needed (and the increased standard deduction offsets this for the poor and middle class so we are left with just mortgage deductions for the wealthy which I'm fine with eliminating).

Repeal Estate tax

I'm opposed. I'd rather expand the estate tax and slash income taxes. Lets encourage employment and work and discourage the accumulation of wealth into the lucky few.

Repeal alternative minimum tax

I like the concept (since it cuts the tax filing effort in half) but would do the opposite. I'd rather that we all pay the AMT.

 

[Jhhnn]

The first thing to do when discussing their proposal is to drop the word "reform"-shifting the tax burden from the rich to the middle class is the antithesis of reform. It really should be called something like the GOP Proposal to Restructure Taxes.

One other thing to remember for those considering this might not be a bad idea to experiment on (even though it has horrendously failed at least twice so far) is the most scared pledge any GOP office holder makes is the pledge to never increase taxes. Once they squeeze through these cuts, no matter how ill-advised they appear down the road, the cuts are permanent. We will have to cut entitlements, military spending (yeah, right) or VA benefits to prevent the deficit from ballooning even further.

It may be premature to label this as a dumb idea-after all we have little more than a sketch scribbled on a cocktail napkin at this stage-but it has all the earmarks of one.

You are unfortunately correct about the permanence of tax cuts. A small group of right wing mega rich own the Repub party and the propaganda organs to manipulate a delusional voter base. Only a paradigm shift in political & economic thinking will deny them 40 votes in the US Senate. That will only come the hard way, unfortunately, through a great economic catastrophe that their policy will inevitably produce. 2008? Think 1931.

 

[fskimospy]

Red herring. If there are 3 brackets or 1,000,000,000 it makes no real difference in the complexity or fairness of the tax code. You still look up your tax on a table or online calculator no matter how many brackets there are. I'm neutral on this, depending of course on what the actual brackets are I might change my mind.

Yes, I'm tired of people saying that the tax code is complicated because of the number of brackets. The number of brackets contributes functionally zero to how complex the tax code is.

Those families with 19 children might start paying taxes. I can be for this, iff it is roughly budget neutral.

The problem with that is that families with a lot of kids already are suddenly going to face a massive tax increase that they had no particular reason to see coming. If you want to eliminate those deductions that's fine, but you have to do it in a gradual way. I have seen no evidence that's part of the plan.

I'm all for this. No reason for the federal government to keep subsidizing the states. Ironically, this gives more power to the federal government, which is the opposite of what the GOP claims to want. Plus it was never fair as states all were different and easy to game.

Same thing here. Eliminating the mortgage interest deduction and state income tax deductions in one fell swoop is asking for an economic catastrophe. Housing prices will decline substantially nationwide almost overnight, which will lead to large numbers of new people underwater on their mortgages. The effective 'rent' that a decent percentage of homeowners pay will increase by hundreds of dollars a month overnight, meaning that we will likely see a wave of defaults and foreclosures. The value of securities related to these two issues will also decline substantially, potentially triggering a financial crisis.

I'm 100% in favor of eliminating the mortgage interest deduction and the state/local tax deduction but we have to be smart about it and phase these things in gradually, not in a giant 'fuck you' to people in blue states or states with high cost of housing.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

And it's reported by White House insiders (Trump?) that the President has told the Republican Congress get something done on taxes or I'll get it done with Chuck & Nancy.

 

[K1052]

Already signs of GOP reps that hail from NY stirring against the elimination of the state/local deductions.

Welcome to the easy breezy months of tax reform...nothing like that healthcare hubbub we just had.

 

[fskimospy]

Already signs of GOP reps that hail from NY stirring against the elimination of the state/local deductions.

Welcome to the easy breezy months of tax reform...nothing like that healthcare hubbub we just had.

My suspicion is they will eventually give up on most of this and settle for the one thing they can all agree on, giant, debt financed tax cuts for rich people.

 

[dullard]

If you want to eliminate those deductions that's fine, but you have to do it in a gradual way.

I agree with gradual changes (for your whole post). Although, I don't think it is quite as dire as you described, doing it in one instant will put many markets into disarray.

 

[IronWing]

My suspicion is they will eventually give up on most of this and settle for the one thing they can all agree on, giant, debt financed tax cuts for rich people.

Yep. The Reps will wave around ending the mortgage interest deduction for a bit then jettison the idea while sternly explaining that by doing so they will have to make cuts somewhere to offset this keystone of the plan. Ditto for the state/local tax offset.