Corrected title: Now the GOP has accomplished massive tax reform

[ElFenix]

What happened to paying their fair share? Easy to talk the talk when it is some nefarious faceless rich person or corporation. I welcome this new foundation of the democrat party fighting to let people keep more of their money regardless of income or wealth.

average joe isn't keeping more of anything once the additional deficits inflate away all his "keeping"

 

[K1052]

That's a strange way to define if something is shady or not.
Mitch McConnell openly flouted the Constitution when he refused to allow hearings for Merrick Garland. Now let's say the Dems sweep both houses of Congress in 2018 and another USSC seat is open in Jan 2020. Would I ever support the Dems using the same playbook? Even as important as the balance in the SC is, I wouldn't. And that's a much higher stakes issue than the SALT limit.

I agree with you and fskimospy that the GOP tax bill is punitive towards "blue" states for purely political reasons, but it was legally passed. I'm not a tax policy wonk, but what the CA bill proposes sounds like trying to subvert federal tax law. Whether it's legal or not is a different story.

CA is being honest about their intentions. You may not agree with them but they aren't hiding anything.

I think the next generation of Democrats taking power in government will probably be learning the lessons that their seniors didn't from how successfully the Republicans have subverted democratic and constitutional processes. I don't think that's good but it's going to be a fact. Republicans have named the game and set the rules even if the Dems have not yet fully taken the field. They will eventually.

Based upon what I've read the workaround through charitable contributions seems plausible. Obviously the courts will get involved but I'm suspicious of any claim that it will ultimately be decided in the feds favor if this hole was not explicitly closed in the legislation. There are also other more complicated ways to go about this that are unquestionably legal (payroll tax replacing income tax, etc).

 

[fskimospy]

That's a strange way to define if something is shady or not.
Mitch McConnell openly flouted the Constitution when he refused to allow hearings for Merrick Garland. Now let's say the Dems sweep both houses of Congress in 2018 and another USSC seat is open in Jan 2020. Would I ever support the Dems using the same playbook? Even as important as the balance in the SC is, I wouldn't. And that's a much higher stakes issue than the SALT limit.

Why would you not support Democrats doing this? I get from an institutional standpoint it was important not to engage in this sort of behavior but that time has passed. The institutional norm is already broken and one side choosing to unilaterally adhere to it to their detriment won't bring it back. This is why the damage the GOP has been doing to governing norms over the last decade or so is so dangerous. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

I agree with you and fskimospy that the GOP tax bill is punitive towards "blue" states for purely political reasons, but it was legally passed. I'm not a tax policy wonk, but what the CA bill proposes sounds like trying to subvert federal tax law. Whether it's legal or not is a different story.

They are certainly trying to game federal tax law, yes. My question to you would be if you think the GOP tax bill was written with the purpose of benefiting the nation as much as possible. If it was, then I agree these sort of norms shouldn't be violated. I do not think that was even remotely close to being true though, meaning that norm is also out of the bottle.

 

[Meghan54]

De León consulted with tax experts on the measure and it is attracting a lot of attention in part because smaller-scale versions of it have proven successful.

In 2011, the U.S. Supreme Court allowed taxpayers in Arizona to claim tax credits for making charitable contributions to organizations that make payments for children to attend parochial schools.

“As a technical matter, I think that it is an idea that has worked on a smaller scale in other circumstances like Arizona’s program to indirectly subsidize parochial school education,” said Edward Kleinbard, former chief of staff at the JCT who is a law professor at the University of Southern California.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...skirting-trumps-tax-law/ar-BBHT5IT?li=BBnb7KB

Now, I know this isn't exactly the same thing, but it reads as probably close enough for gov't work. Probably be upheld if/when challenged.

 

[Jhhnn]

They are certainly trying to game federal tax law, yes. My question to you would be if you think the GOP tax bill was written with the purpose of benefiting the nation as much as possible. If it was, then I agree these sort of norms shouldn't be violated. I do not think that was even remotely close to being true though, meaning that norm is also out of the bottle.

The Repub tax bill is top down class warfare looting against the people and their govt.

 

[ch33zw1z]

That's awesome. Hope it passes. This SALT limit is going to hurt us here in CA, myself included.

but those poor red welfare states need your help

 

[senseamp]

I like the shifting state income taxes to payroll tax idea better, because then it would benefit even people who don't itemize.

 

[K1052]

Cohn was on Bloomberg pushing back that the charitable route is possible and that the gov will nullify any avoidance. Not sure I'd be taking that to the bank Gary if the law doesn't specifically address these things. A payroll tax would definitely be above board.