Could Germany have been defeated if they had the wonder weapons at the start of WW2?

[rezinn]

Originally posted by: Koenigsegg
Guttentag.

no

 

[Chompman]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: LordSegan

Originally posted by: Chompman

Originally posted by: KLin
a couple of more nukes would have solved the problem quickly.

You have to remember that for the most part they were ahead of the making of such a bomb until most of their hard water plants were destroyed and japan did explode their first nuke six days after "Little Boy" devastated Hiroshima so we were not that far ahead of them that way.

Say what about japan blowing up their own nuke??

yea huh? japan abandoned it after finding the project impractical.

look into the manhatten project. it was #@% huge!!! sorry, no one was close as us, the resources required were massive.

Seeing how Japan exploded their first nuke 6 days after we dropped the first one on them I wouldn't excatly say they were not close to us.

 

[Chompman]

Linky for those that missed it.

 

[grrl]

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Say the from the very start of the war....

Standard rifle was the STG 44.
Standard Fighter Jet was the ME 262.
The MBT was the King Tiger Tank

Could the allies eventually overwhelmed them with superior numbers to compensate? I realize that the total number of german equipment would be much lower due to the complexity of the manufacture of these items. Could the allies have overcome them with sheer numbers?

Make the MBT the Panther, not the King Tiger.

Agreed. The King Tiger was best as a defensive weapon, it lacked the reliability, range and speed to be a breakthrough vehicle.

 

[grrl]

Originally posted by: Chompman

Originally posted by: KLin
a couple of more nukes would have solved the problem quickly.

You have to remember that for the most part they were ahead of the making of such a bomb until most of their hard water plants were destroyed and japan did explode their first nuke six days after "Little Boy" devastated Hiroshima so we were not that far ahead of them that way.

It's doubtful they could have developed the bomb first for two reasons, they didn't have a large enough economy (the Manhattan Project was incredibly expensive) plus their lead scientist (I forget his name) was didn't fully understand what was required to make a successful bomb. For one thing he believed a much larger amount of uranium was needed to make a bomb. After the war the Allies sent him back to Germany because they realized he had nothing to contribute to nuclear research.

 

[dug777]

wonder weapons like that flying powder tinkerbell has?

 

[Chompman]

Originally posted by: grrl

Originally posted by: Chompman

Originally posted by: KLin
a couple of more nukes would have solved the problem quickly.

You have to remember that for the most part they were ahead of the making of such a bomb until most of their hard water plants were destroyed and japan did explode their first nuke six days after "Little Boy" devastated Hiroshima so we were not that far ahead of them that way.

It's doubtful they could have developed the bomb first for two reasons, they didn't have a large enough economy (the Manhattan Project was incredibly expensive) plus their lead scientist (I forget his name) was didn't fully understand what was required to make a successful bomb. For one thing he believed a much larger amount of uranium was needed to make a bomb. After the war the Allies sent him back to Germany because they realized he had nothing to contribute to nuclear research.

I never said they could had made it first, in fact I said they were behind but it was close.

The main reason they were behind is because Germany surrendered and they lost most of their access to the raw materials when that happened.

A day or two before Germany surrendered a U-Boat left Germany with Japanese and germans on board with nuke materials to build a bomb. 2 days before it was suppose to arrive in Japan, German surrendered. The U-Boat surrendered itself, the Japanese committed suicide rather than be captured and Japan never got their nuke materials.

It has been projected that if Germany had surrendered two days later and that U-boat made it to Japan that with the combined technology and materials between the two countries that Japan could have the bomb before we finished ours.

 

[Chompman]

Originally posted by: dug777
wonder weapons like that flying powder tinkerbell has?

Nah, more like pinocchio's nose but in a different area.

 

[MAME]

Originally posted by: Chompman

Originally posted by: LordSegan

Originally posted by: Chompman

Originally posted by: KLin
a couple of more nukes would have solved the problem quickly.

You have to remember that for the most part they were ahead of the making of such a bomb until most of their hard water plants were destroyed and japan did explode their first nuke six days after "Little Boy" devastated Hiroshima so we were not that far ahead of them that way.

Say what about japan blowing up their own nuke??

Just showing we were not the only one with nukes at that time and if they had more advanced weapons they could had used them against us before we could had used ours.

But it didn't happen so it's a mute topic.

moot maybe?

 

[Chompman]

Originally posted by: MAME

Originally posted by: Chompman

Originally posted by: LordSegan

Originally posted by: Chompman

Originally posted by: KLin
a couple of more nukes would have solved the problem quickly.

You have to remember that for the most part they were ahead of the making of such a bomb until most of their hard water plants were destroyed and japan did explode their first nuke six days after "Little Boy" devastated Hiroshima so we were not that far ahead of them that way.

Say what about japan blowing up their own nuke??

Just showing we were not the only one with nukes at that time and if they had more advanced weapons they could had used them against us before we could had used ours.

But it didn't happen so it's a mute topic.

moot maybe?

Probly but it's almost 4 am and I am still in recovery from the wedding saturday.

 

[Mickey Eye]

If britain has been lost due to the change in air power (though Hitler did say that he would rather sue for peace with the UK than invade) the US would have lost more than a strategic staging post. The sudden lack of the Bletchley Park code breakers would have seriously hampered all areas of the following invasions as well as increasing the effectivness of the U-boats.

Linky Linky

 

[DennisHS]

It could be "fun" to see the outcome of WW2, if Adolph won it! How would we live? How would the world look etc? ..

There was a movie with Rutger Hauer, where USA (and the entire world) were under Nazi control. Fatherland (1994) : http://imdb.com/title/tt0109779/

 

[Mickey Eye]

It was a book first, I have read it but I never saw the film.

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: Rogue
Funny you should ask as I'm currently taking a class on WW II right now. From what I've read so far, the United States didn't start hitting peak output for it's war machine until right at the end of the war. It was said that if the US had continued to fight over the course of another year or two that it would have easily been able to outfit not only it's massive military, but also the militaries of every one of it's allies as well. That's a force to be reckoned with no matter how you look at it. And, like someone else said, the nuke would have solved any technology advantage Germany could have had. Nuke >*

One or two nukes (that the allies were able to produce until August 1945) wouldn't had make a dent in the german industrial production. Especially considering that germans would have had air control, so no bomber would have been able to penetrate its air defences.

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Say the from the very start of the war....

Standard rifle was the STG 44.
Standard Fighter Jet was the ME 262.
The MBT was the King Tiger Tank

Could the allies eventually overwhelmed them with superior numbers to compensate? I realize that the total number of german equipment would be much lower due to the complexity of the manufacture of these items. Could the allies have overcome them with sheer numbers?

No, the Allies would have countered them by the end. Germany was pretty far ahead in Weapons tech when they started, so being even further ahead probably wouldn't have had much more effect. OTOH, if they had these weapons in quantity towards the end(what we call the end), I think they would have certainly proplonged the War significantly if not eventually defeat both Britain and the Soviet Union. They would have once again gained a clear technological advantage as they had at the begining.

With better planes (or even with better tactics), the germans could have won the Battle of Britain (the air battle), and they could have landed there. Once there, they could have won the land war (as they had won the war against the French).
Once the Britain would have been conquered, Operation Overlord would have been impossible

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: drpootums
the allies did beat the German army with sheer #'s, Germany had far superior technology, just much fewer soldiers. Also, I believe the spirit of the allies were stronger. they were fighting because they had to protect their countries, not just fighting because they had too (Most of Hitler's generals wanted to kill hitler...)

BTW, even though Italy had a lot of people, it's pretty sad when you have a force of 150,000 in one battle that get beaten back by about 10,000 British soldiers (I believe those were the #'s in one battle)

If I remember correctly, US troops lost some 12,000 tanks in France and Germany. The fact that they were able to sustain that kind of losses made them able to win the war

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: Calin

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Say the from the very start of the war....

Standard rifle was the STG 44.
Standard Fighter Jet was the ME 262.
The MBT was the King Tiger Tank

Could the allies eventually overwhelmed them with superior numbers to compensate? I realize that the total number of german equipment would be much lower due to the complexity of the manufacture of these items. Could the allies have overcome them with sheer numbers?

No, the Allies would have countered them by the end. Germany was pretty far ahead in Weapons tech when they started, so being even further ahead probably wouldn't have had much more effect. OTOH, if they had these weapons in quantity towards the end(what we call the end), I think they would have certainly proplonged the War significantly if not eventually defeat both Britain and the Soviet Union. They would have once again gained a clear technological advantage as they had at the begining.

With better planes (or even with better tactics), the germans could have won the Battle of Britain (the air battle), and they could have landed there. Once there, they could have won the land war (as they had won the war against the French).
Once the Britain would have been conquered, Operation Overlord would have been impossible

Germany was a long long long way from being able to invade Britain. Sealion had zero chance of success.

 

[Mickey Eye]

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: Calin

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Say the from the very start of the war....

Standard rifle was the STG 44.
Standard Fighter Jet was the ME 262.
The MBT was the King Tiger Tank

Could the allies eventually overwhelmed them with superior numbers to compensate? I realize that the total number of german equipment would be much lower due to the complexity of the manufacture of these items. Could the allies have overcome them with sheer numbers?

No, the Allies would have countered them by the end. Germany was pretty far ahead in Weapons tech when they started, so being even further ahead probably wouldn't have had much more effect. OTOH, if they had these weapons in quantity towards the end(what we call the end), I think they would have certainly proplonged the War significantly if not eventually defeat both Britain and the Soviet Union. They would have once again gained a clear technological advantage as they had at the begining.

With better planes (or even with better tactics), the germans could have won the Battle of Britain (the air battle), and they could have landed there. Once there, they could have won the land war (as they had won the war against the French).
Once the Britain would have been conquered, Operation Overlord would have been impossible

Germany was a long long long way from being able to invade Britain. Sealion had zero chance of success.

Yes that would also rely on them not losing all those naval battles.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: drpootums
the allies did beat the German army with sheer #'s, Germany had far superior technology, just much fewer soldiers. Also, I believe the spirit of the allies were stronger. they were fighting because they had to protect their countries, not just fighting because they had too (Most of Hitler's generals wanted to kill hitler...)

BTW, even though Italy had a lot of people, it's pretty sad when you have a force of 150,000 in one battle that get beaten back by about 10,000 British soldiers (I believe those were the #'s in one battle)

Germany's technology wasn't necessarily far superior. They never could have built a B-29, they were behind the allies on radar for the entire war, and their chances of building an atomic bomb were pretty close to zero, despite some revisionist history (like all the crap about the Japanese A bomb).

 

[Rogue]

And again, even with the loss of Britain as a staging point, the US was in control of Greenland and had a navy that was massive in scale and growing larger as the war went on. To think that we couldn't have conducted Operation Overlord from Greenland and bolstered our landings with more US troops instead of British and Canadians is short sighted. I think many of you are failing to realize the massive production output of war materials that the US was capable of. Realize also that a vast majority of the citizens of the US weren't even making sacrifices for the war, it was life as usual, unlike in Germany where almost the entire populace was engaged in producing or sacrificing for their war effort.

Also, the US Army Air Force was massive as well. With continued production of aircraft, the war would have been won on numbers alone. Keep in mind also that the US at the time was fairly new to the whole war concept as compared to all the nations involved. WWII was a learning process for the US, pure and simple. Out involvement in WWI was limited and short by comparison. Technology or not, Germany would have lost regardless. They were up against two of the largest nations in the world with the most raw materials available to it. Germany had to import iron ore from Sweden, the US and Russia had plenty of their own.

 

[Calin]

There would have been no invasion from Greenland (maybe from Iceland). The war would have been fought thru invasions from North Africa (Sicily and Italy, Gibraltar and Spain)

 

[K1052]

If Germany had a large number of Type XXI U Boats they could have very effectively cut the shipping lanes to England and destroyed most of the merchant marine and commercial shipping before the US would have a chance to counter.

England sues for peace, game over.

 

[Hammer]

if you had replaced hitler with rommel germany might not have been defeated. hitler sucked both strategically and tactically.

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: Hammer
if you had replaced hitler with rommel germany might not have been defeated. hitler sucked both strategically and tactically.

However, Hitler's charisma was the thing that allowed him to start forging the Reich. I doubt even a general so successful as Rommel would have been able to transform the destroyed Germany after the WW1 into the Reich that started the WW2

 

[So]

Could the US have been defeated if we has ICBMs at the start of WWII?

What if the confederates had Ak-47s?

What if the romans had the moonraker laser rifle? Could Rome have been sacked?