Could Social Security be declared null & void ?

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Lots of seniors are a bit upset over social security and the changes of late. I know my parents did not get any increase this year because they say that cost of living did not increase. I beg to differ, their rent, utilities, food, all went up. I read an article on social security and how it consist of basically money that is not there.


http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/01/economic-hoodwinking-of-the-public/
Kim Petersen: You write that the Treasury has “stolen” money from social security for current operating expenses and replaced it with “worthless” IOUs? But how worthless are the IOUs? Even if the IOUs have no open-market value, could the government default on its own IOUs without causing currency flight?

Allen W. Smith: The IOUs in the trust fund are completely different from any other government certificates. They are not real bonds in any meaningful sense of the term. They are a gimmick, created by the government in an effort to fool the public into believing that Social Security funds are invested in Treasury bonds, when, in fact, they have not been invested in anything. Money can be saved and invested, but it is not possible to both spend and invest money. Once the money is spent, there is nothing left to invest. Every dollar of the $2.5 trillion that is supposed to be in the trust fund has been spent to fund tax cuts, wars, and other government programs. Since none of the surplus Social Security revenue has been saved, none of it has been invested in anything.

What gives the special-issue IOUs the allusion of being real is that printed on the face of each of these documents are the words, “Backed by the full faith and credit of the United States Government.” The problem is that no provisions have been made for repayment of any of the Social Security funds. Given the deceptive practices that the government has already engaged in with regard to Social Security, it is hard to have faith that the government will repay the funds, and given the fact that some foreign lenders are already expressing concern about lending additional funds to the U.S., the credit of the United States government is not nearly as strong as it once was.

Most of the public debt is in the form of public issue marketable Treasury bonds that can be bought and sold in the open market at will. These bonds are as good as gold, so investors who hold such bonds have nothing to worry about. The government could never default on any of these marketable bonds without creating panic in the financial markets and causing currency to be withdrawn by foreign investors. Therefore, we can be absolutely sure that the government will never default on any of its public issue marketable Treasury bonds.

The special issue IOUs in the trust fund are a different matter. The government could declare the Social Security debt “null and void” at any time. Foreign investors might frown on such action, but, since it would not directly affect them, I think they would just view it as a domestic issue between the U.S. government and its citizens. Obviously such an act would be politically unpopular with the American people. But would it be any more unpopular than massive increases in taxes in order to repay the Social Security money? That is exactly what it boils down to. It will take enormous tax increases in the future in order to raise enough money to repay the $2.5 trillion of surplus Social Security revenue that the government has looted over the last 25 years. Unless the American people, and the Congress, support such tax hikes, the government will have no choice but to default on its debt to Social Security.


I didn't get too concerned over the idea that they could make it null&void until I started reading this:
http://www.ourfuture.org/budgetcommission
We write with strong opposition to the proposal of Senators Kent Conrad, Judd Gregg and others to create a deficit-reduction commission that would override the normal legislative process and replace it with expedited procedures prohibiting amendments and limiting debate. We write with an increasing sense of urgency, because plans to vote on the Conrad-Gregg proposal on January 20th or soon thereafter, as part of the debt ceiling bill. If the Conrad-Gregg proposal were to become law, it could dramatically change by stealth critical benefits and services so vital to America’s families.

Those supporting this circumvention of the normal process have stated openly the desire to avoid political accountability. Americans-seniors, women, working families, people with disabilities, youth, young adults, children, people of color, veterans, communities of faith and others-expect their elected representatives to be responsible and accountable for shaping such significant, far-reaching legislation.

Don't these people already have too much power to change the economy ?Why don't we just forget about voting for someone, put a king in the white house and forget about people. It seems that is where we are headed. I really don't know if Washington has just become plain evil or if it is just lack of concern for anyone but themselves. Or maybe a little of both.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,722
49,317
136
Don't these people already have too much power to change the economy ?Why don't we just forget about voting for someone, put a king in the white house and forget about people. It seems that is where we are headed. I really don't know if Washington has just become plain evil or if it is just lack of concern for anyone but themselves. Or maybe a little of both.

Wait your response to Congress changing the rules by which they would write legislation is 'why don't we put a king in the White House'? I'm confused.
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,085
663
126
Lots of seniors are a bit upset over social security and the changes of late. I know my parents did not get any increase this year because they say that cost of living did not increase. I beg to differ, their rent, utilities, food, all went up. I read an article on social security and how it consist of basically money that is not there.

Curious where do your parents live? Rent is down for me, utilities and food are even. This is in SF Bay area.
 

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,366
740
126
No, it will continue for ever, maybe soon we wont be paying SS Tax anymore but some higher Welfare tax and the SS amount will decline dramatically to levels where it will be pretty much worthless and some new welfare funds will replace it encouraging more and more worthless "minority" not to work and have more humanlets.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,865
10
0
If Republicans get their way, yes.

Hello again, partisan hack. Since you apparently didn't look at the article, one of the sponsors is a Republican, and the other... is a Democrat. Oops. Or, since you've forgotten, Congress has been run by Democrats since 2006 - so if someone voids SS in the near future, it's the Democrats.
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,528
5,944
136
Concerning the cost of living raise, for years the left scared the elderly by saying, "The right will cut your check/benefits." It never happened.......until they (the left) were in charge.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
Concerning the cost of living raise, for years the left scared the elderly by saying, "The right will cut your check/benefits." It never happened.......until they (the left) were in charge.

I hope they learned their lesson. Government employees all got their raises but not the common retired people?? Some careers should ended over that.
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,528
5,944
136
I hope they learned their lesson. Government employees all got their raises but not the common retired people?? Some careers should ended over that.

A few will but all the little sheep will continue to do/vote the same as they always have. On the left and right. The Cadillac tax doesn't apply to fed employees either.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,722
49,317
136
Concerning the cost of living raise, for years the left scared the elderly by saying, "The right will cut your check/benefits." It never happened.......until they (the left) were in charge.

America experienced DEFLATION last year, nobodys benefits were cut, they in fact increased in buying power.

Jesus people.
 

Zepper

Elite Member
May 1, 2001
18,998
0
0
No comprende, gov't theft? People paid taxes into the program for years and still are - that the congresscritters stole from the SS fund for other programs and substituted IOUs is irrelevant. SS is a "Due Bill"...

.bh.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
News Flash

In lieu of the COLA (since by law one was not eligible), there was a $250 one-time payment to each recipient of Social Security thanks to the Recovery Act.

That would be something in the range of 2%.



I now return you to more raging trollism ....








--
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
That part annoys me. I'd much rather prepare for my own retirement than rely on SS.

Exactly.
Actually I believe that there is a county (or city) in Texas that is/was a trail program that is excluded from SS. Instead of SS, they have their own free market based program and the returns are MUCH HIGHER than that of SS and your money is guaranteed.

Don't you just love government control?
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,865
10
0
News Flash
In lieu of the COLA (since by law one was not eligible), there was a $250 one-time payment to each recipient of Social Security thanks to the Recovery Act.
That would be something in the range of 2%.
I now return you to more raging trollism ....
--

What does that have to do with the proposal in the OP?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Exactly.
Actually I believe that there is a county (or city) in Texas that is/was a trail program that is excluded from SS. Instead of SS, they have their own free market based program and the returns are MUCH HIGHER than that of SS and your money is guaranteed.

Don't you just love government control?
Link?
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
America experienced DEFLATION last year, nobodys benefits were cut, they in fact increased in buying power.

Jesus people.

Then why did goverment employees get a raise but not retirees? Different rules for different people? I guess you can't get anymore "transparent" then that??
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,528
5,944
136
America experienced DEFLATION last year, nobodys benefits were cut, they in fact increased in buying power.

Jesus people.

The CPI rose 2.7% for the year.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm

But I understand your point. The COLA is set by law and the law says no raise. Explain that to the retiree with no raise and medical/energy going up. Not good for the Dems during election time. HEHEHEHE
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
News Flash

In lieu of the COLA (since by law one was not eligible), there was a $250 one-time payment to each recipient of Social Security thanks to the Recovery Act.

That would be something in the range of 2%.



I now return you to more raging trollism ....

Let em guess, you don't understand how "compounded interest" works either, do you?
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Wait your response to Congress changing the rules by which they would write legislation is 'why don't we put a king in the White House'? I'm confused.

Because as time goes on the government is acting more like a ruler vs a servant.
 
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