Could some kind soul walk me through setting up a Raid 0 array?

[Diss]

I will be building my first rig in the next week or so and am planning to set up 2 HDs (probably Raptors) in a Raid 0 array.

I've never done this before and was just wondering if someone could offer me the basics as to what the process involves as far as installing windows on a Raid 0 array. I know that it's something that is done during the Windows install process, but just would like to be as clear as possible on what to expect before I jump into this.

If someone could go through the general steps involved from beginning the Windows installation to setting up the array, that would be extremely helpful.

And please, feel free to speak to me like I'm a 5-year-old. I know just enough to be dangerous at this point.

Oh, and the MB I'll be using will be an ASUS A8N-SLI Premium, intalling Win XP Professional.

Thanks for any help!

 

[CreativeTom]

I have a simple question, actually two. Why go with such expensive hard drives? and why go with a raid 0?

 

[mechBgon]

Read Section 5.5 of your Asus manual, they've got it all spelled out for you.

 

[Diss]

Thanks guys, for the comments. Will definitely check the manual, just haven't got the board yet. I suppose I could go to the ASUS site and see if they have a PDF version of it available for download.

As for why I am getting the raptors, well, I'm planning to use the system predominantly for video editing, with a secondary use for gaming. I use Adobe Premiere, and use it with one Raptor on my current setup, and the extra speed of the drive seems to help with the performance of these pretty intensive software packages (Premiere, AfterEffects, etc.).

I was under the impression that a Raid 0 array would provide even greater speed (I understand that it would also double the chances of losing data if one drive fails, but once I finish a project, I usually transfer it to an external drive for storage).

But if you have any other recommendations, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Vegito]

Originally posted by: Diss
Thanks guys, for the comments. Will definitely check the manual, just haven't got the board yet. I suppose I could go to the ASUS site and see if they have a PDF version of it available for download.

As for why I am getting the raptors, well, I'm planning to use the system predominantly for video editing, with a secondary use for gaming. I use Adobe Premiere, and use it with one Raptor on my current setup, and the extra speed of the drive seems to help with the performance of these pretty intensive software packages (Premiere, AfterEffects, etc.).

I was under the impression that a Raid 0 array would provide even greater speed (I understand that it would also double the chances of losing data if one drive fails, but once I finish a project, I usually transfer it to an external drive for storage).

But if you have any other recommendations, I'd love to hear them.

I have similar setup.. except I went R1 with my raptor and not raid 0. You're now going to fight adobe process with your os process.. Either that or get 4 raptor, use 2 for boot and use 2 for scratch space..

I got 2 additional 200gb drive in raid 0 just for the scratch space. System has 4 gb of memory and its a Asus PC-DL dual xeon 3.06s

I'm looking to get those gigabyte iram to put some more scratch disk in them..

 

[Diss]

Originally posted by: forcesho
I have similar setup.. except I went R1 with my raptor and not raid 0. You're now going to fight adobe process with your os process..

Hmmm, could you explain what you mean by that? Not totally sure I follow.

Also, you mention you had 4 GBs of RAM, which is what I'm hoping to have as well. However, I've read about problems with filling all 4 DIMMS on some boards (like a few ASUS models), where the RAM speeds clock back to 333MHz instead of 400Mhz when all 4 DIMMS are occupied. Have you had any problems with that?

Thanks...

 

[CreativeTom]

Originally posted by: CreativeTom
I have a simple question, actually two. Why go with such expensive hard drives? and why go with a raid 0?

The reason I asked this, which I guess you ignored, is because the new drives that are out on the market now with NCQ and even the 16MB Cache sizes now coming out are just as fast if not faster then the Raptor for around the same price if not cheaper. I asked why a raid 0? The raid 0 is not at all worth your time or effort or even your risk, it doesn't give you a performance advantage to even notice any diference no matter what the application.

Here is a direct quote from anandtech.

"If you haven't gotten the hint by now, we'll spell it out for you: there is no place, and no need for a RAID-0 array on a desktop computer. The real world performance increases are negligible at best and the reduction in reliability, thanks to a halving of the mean time between failure, makes RAID-0 far from worth it on the desktop."

and yet another quote from anandtech. "for the vast majority of desktop users and gamers alike, save your money and stay away from RAID-0."

You will find much more evidence that it's just a waste of time no matter where you look.

Oh and to answer about your 4dimm question yes you will only be able to run it 2T.

 

[Diss]

The reason I asked this, which I guess you ignored, is because the new drives that are out on the market now with NCQ and even the 16MB Cache sizes now coming out are just as fast if not faster then the Raptor for around the same price if not cheaper. I asked why a raid 0? The raid 0 is not at all worth your time or effort or even your risk, it doesn't give you a performance advantage to even notice any diference no matter what the application.

I didn't ignore you, Tom. In fact, if you notice my second post in this thread, I answered your questions directly.

In any case, thanks very much for this info. In fact, while searching more between making this post and waiting for responses, I've seen quite a bit of info about the new 16MB cache-size HDs, and, coupled with your comments, I'm thinking that is probably the way to go.

Again, thanks...

 

[JDCentral]

Yeah.. RAID0 doesn't give you much of a speed increase, and if one drive ever fails all the data is lost.

I usually tell people to turn off RAID0, no matter what. It's not worth it!

 

[krevo]

what about raid 1? i'm building a server on a PC-DL board with dual raptors and the customer wants raid 1...


please don't tell me raid 1 is also a bad idea!

 

[CreativeTom]

Originally posted by: krevo
what about raid 1? i'm building a server on a PC-DL board with dual raptors and the customer wants raid 1...


please don't tell me raid 1 is also a bad idea!

No a Raid one is a great idea especially if it's going on a server. The idea behind it is a mirror set of drives, so both drives are being written to simultaniously. You will see a bit of a performance degredation, but for crucial data it's a very good idea. I would also make sure that the person you are building it for has a good backup solution as well, nothing is ever fullproof.

 

[aka1nas]

Guys, for his use RAID 0 would actually help as video editing is one of the few tasks that does benefit from the increased sustained transfer rate of a RAID 0 array. However, it would be advisable to not put your OS on the RAID 0 array due to both the increased risk of data loss but also because you want to maximize your transfer rate for video editing, so having your OS on a seperate drive will help in that area as well.

 

[CreativeTom]

Originally posted by: aka1nas
Guys, for his use RAID 0 would actually help as video editing is one of the few tasks that does benefit from the increased sustained transfer rate of a RAID 0 array. However, it would be advisable to not put your OS on the RAID 0 array due to both the increased risk of data loss but also because you want to maximize your transfer rate for video editing, so having your OS on a seperate drive will help in that area as well.

Negligable.

 

[Diss]

I guess this is what I need to research now, i.e. what benefit a Raid 0 array would give to video editing and if that benefit is worth the inherent risk of such a setup.

I've been under the impression that Raid 0 was a no-brainer when it came to speed increases across the board, but sounds like I've bought into some sort of "Emperor's New Clothes" type of myth here. I've read many comments of people saying it comes close to "doubling performance" as far as drive speed, but sounds like that is far from the case.

Well, that's why I come here.

Thankfully, I haven't bought anything yet.

I'm now thinking about the new Hitachi 500 GB drive with the SATA II capability and the 16MB cache and just use that as my sole drive.

 

[Vegito]

Originally posted by: krevo
what about raid 1? i'm building a server on a PC-DL board with dual raptors and the customer wants raid 1...


please don't tell me raid 1 is also a bad idea!

i have pcdl with r1, works great

 

[CreativeTom]

Originally posted by: Diss


I'm now thinking about the new Hitachi 500 GB drive with the SATA II capability and the 16MB cache and just use that as my sole drive.

Great drive, I think you will find that drive to be well worth your while.

 

[Vegito]

Originally posted by: Diss

Originally posted by: forcesho
I have similar setup.. except I went R1 with my raptor and not raid 0. You're now going to fight adobe process with your os process..

Hmmm, could you explain what you mean by that? Not totally sure I follow.

Also, you mention you had 4 GBs of RAM, which is what I'm hoping to have as well. However, I've read about problems with filling all 4 DIMMS on some boards (like a few ASUS models), where the RAM speeds clock back to 333MHz instead of 400Mhz when all 4 DIMMS are occupied. Have you had any problems with that?

Thanks...

ie your capturing adobe files from your camcorder..

if you have 1 pair of HDD - R0 - Your os will need to read/write and use it's swap file at the same time it's writing to disk for your adobe process.

By seperating the disk out, your os will read/write 1 pair of raid drives and your adobe will read/write another pair of raid drives.

This way if your OS is doing work, it wont need to wait for your adobe process to finish

Computers are fast enough now but still if you want the ultimate adobe editing machine, seperate drives, I do it for servers already

EDIT: Im using pc3200 on a board that has a max of 333... so filling all 4 doesn't hurt me.. plus its an intel board, not amd..

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: Diss
I guess this is what I need to research now, i.e. what benefit a Raid 0 array would give to video editing and if that benefit is worth the inherent risk of such a setup.

I've been under the impression that Raid 0 was a no-brainer when it came to speed increases across the board, but sounds like I've bought into some sort of "Emperor's New Clothes" type of myth here. I've read many comments of people saying it comes close to "doubling performance" as far as drive speed, but sounds like that is far from the case.

Well, that's why I come here.

Thankfully, I haven't bought anything yet.

I'm now thinking about the new Hitachi 500 GB drive with the SATA II capability and the 16MB cache and just use that as my sole drive.

For general desktop usage, RAID 0 does very little as your usually limited more by access time rather than raw transfer speed, which is not improved by using a RAID array. The transfer rate does help when moving large amounts of data around, regardless of what creativeTom seems to think. For example, if you are capturing analog video via a capture device you may be writing several GB per minute to disk. This is where you need the increased sustained transfer rate.

BTW: The 74GB raptors aren't the most efficient candidates for this kind of usage as their big advantage is access time as they spin faster. you would be better off doing a RAID 1 with those and use them as a snappy OS drive and get some big cheap ATA disks for your RAID 0.

 

[Diss]

ie your capturing adobe files from your camcorder..

if you have 1 pair of HDD - R0 - Your os will need to read/write and use it's swap file at the same time it's writing to disk for your adobe process.

By seperating the disk out, your os will read/write 1 pair of raid drives and your adobe will read/write another pair of raid drives.

This way if your OS is doing work, it wont need to wait for your adobe process to finish

Computers are fast enough now but still if you want the ultimate adobe editing machine, seperate drives, I do it for servers already

EDIT: Im using pc3200 on a board that has a max of 333... so filling all 4 doesn't hurt me.. plus its an intel board, not amd..

Ahh, gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[nick1985]

Read this to find out why raid 0 is not worth it

 

[Bona Fide]

Might I suggest a RAID 1 array? Get two of the Seagate 250GB NCQ drives and set them up in RAID1. All the benefits of SATA150 and NCQ, and 100% failsafe.

 

[Diss]

Found this on another forum re: video editing and Raid 0

Okay, allow me to contribute a little to this thread instead of leeching off these very appreciated responses.

The thread above shows some pretty interesting info regarding Raid 0 and video editing, although it was never totally resolved. Also mentions a Maximum PC article that found little improvement in games in a Raid setup.

Would be interested in hearing from other video editors out there who use and benefit from such a config, otherwise, for now, I think I'm going to go with the single drive from Hitachi mentioned earlier.