Country music star has change of heart on 2nd amendment after Las Vegas massacre

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NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
1,224
136
Umm the first 3 links in the search you gratuitously provided seem to say the exact opposite of what you originally stated.
Gun laws increase violent crime, which is exactly what I posted.
Actually, unrestricted access to guns leads to less crimes. There is no sensible laws in regards to prohibit or regulate guns that does not increase murder or suicide rates.
RTC is a regulative law, thus it increases crime rates.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136

Ah, but you aren't. You said there are "no sensible laws" that "does [sic] not" increase murder or suicide rates. This is objectively false. Look at Canada; it has fairly strict ownership laws... and oh look, their murder/suicide rates are much lower than in the US. Sweden has stricter gun laws; it has far lower murder/suicide rates. I can point to numerous other countries with stricter laws and lower violent crime rates.

Of course, you're probably going to pull some bullshit about defining what "sensible" is, but the fact is that these countries allow gun ownership, even have a healthy amount of it, and don't have nearly as much trouble as the US.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
Gun laws increase violent crime, which is exactly what I posted.
RTC is a regulative law, thus it increases crime rates.

Where are you getting that from the search link you provided?
Edit: When you say "gun laws" do you mean lack of gun laws?

 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,852
8,314
136
Why do people see it as a weakness when someone looks at a problem and changes their mind?
Exactly. If you do not allow me to change my mind you are a tyrant.

"You're either part of the solution or part of the pollution."
 
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NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
1,224
136
Ah, but you aren't. You said there are "no sensible laws" that "does [sic] not" increase murder or suicide rates. This is objectively false. Look at Canada; it has fairly strict ownership laws... and oh look, their murder/suicide rates are much lower than in the US. Sweden has stricter gun laws; it has far lower murder/suicide rates. I can point to numerous other countries with stricter laws and lower violent crime rates.

Just quotes from quick searches...
If Canada were included as part of the 31 countries that make up the wider European region, it would rank fourth in terms of gun-homicide rates. In terms of sheer numbers, only France, Germany and Italy have more gun deaths a year. Suddenly it seems as if Canada isn't the haven of peace and gun harmony that people might think. And this is just homicides we're talking about.

There is another darker, hidden toll that blights Canada – gun suicides. As the Department of Justice notes: "In Canada, about 80 per cent of firearm-related deaths are suicides." According to gunpolicy.org, in the 35 countries in the Americas only the United States, Uruguay and Argentina have more recorded gun suicides per capita than Canada.

Studies conducted by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention show that lethal violence using firearms has increased within the context of criminal conflicts. The number of confirmed or suspected shootings was 20 per cent higher in 2014 than in 2006. The statistics also show that 17 people were killed with firearms in 2011, while the corresponding figure in 2015 was 33.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Just quotes from quick searches...

Aaaaand that's why you're not really educated. You're selectively ignoring (or at least, forgetting about) context to make it seem like these countries are cesspools of violence when, in fact, it's the opposite.

For example, on the "if Canada were included" part: well yes, but how does it compare to the US? Oh, right: turns out the US has a much, much higher gun violence rate. Both for murders and suicides. Yeah, Canada would be fourth if it was part of the wider European region, but that's because European gun violence rates are very low. Even tiny changes in the rates have significant effects on your ranking when the numbers are so small.

Also... "in Canada, about 80 percent of firearm-related deaths are suicides." No shit, maybe that's because gun crime is lower. Did you even stop to think about that? And I double-checked the suicide rates per capita... the US ranks 48th, while Canada is 87th.

And the Sweden study you provide is kind of a pathetic attempt to prove your case, really. "Oh no, shootings went up in several years!" Until you look at the stats... 33 people were killed in 2015. 33. Those are still tragic, but that makes the gun violence rate a fraction of what it is in the US (for context, in 2013 the US rate amounted to 30.7 homicides per day). And there were no significant alterations to Swedish gun laws in that time span, so you can't blame the increase on more restrictive laws.

Sit down, shut up and let the adults talk. You're just embarrassing yourself.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
Good luck. You simply can't have a reasonable discussion with a gun nut. It hasn't happened a single time since I've been actively reading p&n (2008).

Aaaaand that's why you're not really educated. You're selectively ignoring (or at least, forgetting about) context to make it seem like these countries are cesspools of violence when, in fact, it's the opposite.

For example, on the "if Canada were included" part: well yes, but how does it compare to the US? Oh, right: turns out the US has a much, much higher gun violence rate. Both for murders and suicides. Yeah, Canada would be fourth if it was part of the wider European region, but that's because European gun violence rates are very low. Even tiny changes in the rates have significant effects on your ranking when the numbers are so small.

Also... "in Canada, about 80 percent of firearm-related deaths are suicides." No shit, maybe that's because gun crime is lower. Did you even stop to think about that? And I double-checked the suicide rates per capita... the US ranks 48th, while Canada is 87th.

And the Sweden study you provide is kind of a pathetic attempt to prove your case, really. "Oh no, shootings went up in several years!" Until you look at the stats... 33 people were killed in 2015. 33. Those are still tragic, but that makes the gun violence rate a fraction of what it is in the US (for context, in 2013 the US rate amounted to 30.7 homicides per day). And there were no significant alterations to Swedish gun laws in that time span, so you can't blame the increase on more restrictive laws.

Sit down, shut up and let the adults talk. You're just embarrassing yourself.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,689
1,224
136
Aaaaand that's why you're not really educated. You're selectively ignoring (or at least, forgetting about) context to make it seem like these countries are cesspools of violence when, in fact, it's the opposite.
You are also selective ignoring the fact that homicides and suicides are pretty high even without the gun-relation. So... United States is a cesspool of violence even without guns.





So, technically you also have to point out United States culturally promotes this violence systemically. Them versus Us is pretty much in everything you see, hear, and talk about.
 
Last edited:

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
You are also selective ignoring the fact that homicides and suicides are pretty high even without the gun-relation. So... United States is a cesspool of violence even without guns.





So, technically you also have to point out United States culturally promotes this violence systemically. Them versus Us is pretty much in everything you see, hear, and talk about.

I'm sure the two aren't related : eyeroll
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,723
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mxnerd

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2007
6,799
1,101
126
This guy owned 42 guns, thousands of bullets and explosives and it's totally legal.

What for? Just for easy massacre.

It shows how ridiculous 2nd amendment is.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
This guy owned 42 guns, thousands of bullets and explosives and it's totally legal.

What for? Just for easy massacre.

It shows how ridiculous 2nd amendment is.

No it shows how ridiculous conservative judges are and their interpretation of the 2nd amendment is.
 
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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
You are also selective ignoring the fact that homicides and suicides are pretty high even without the gun-relation. So... United States is a cesspool of violence even without guns.





So, technically you also have to point out United States culturally promotes this violence systemically. Them versus Us is pretty much in everything you see, hear, and talk about.

Just so I understand: you're saying that, as non-gun violence is high and the US has a violent culture, we should just forego any tougher gun laws in the US? What kind of sick logic is that? The argument behind those laws isn't that you're going to end most violence, or even all gun violence, but that you can avoid a large number of entirely avoidable deaths. It's about pursuing "better," not "perfect."
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,852
8,314
136
This guy owned 42 guns, thousands of bullets and explosives and it's totally legal.

What for? Just for easy massacre.

It shows how ridiculous 2nd amendment is.
QFT. This guy had all this stuff and nobody thought for a moment (AFAIK) that he might be dangerous. What's wrong with America? Get a clue. Wipe the 2nd amendment. It will take a while, but all kinds of gun violence will slowly disappear in America after we do this. This isn't a quick fix, but it's the only fix. Do it or weep.
 

mdram

Golden Member
Jan 2, 2014
1,512
208
106
you do know that most gun crimeis in urban areas, remove the top 50 cities and the us rate is not much more than the rest of the world

and who lives in those urban areas? liberal democrats

so the answer is simple. liberals shouldnt be allowed to own firearms
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
well I'm about done with your bullshit.

Simple question for you. Do you value your right to own guns more than you value the safety of children? I'm not talking about second hand smoke, or drunk drivers or pedophiles in vans, I'm talking about children being slaughtered by guns, almost daily.
So do you value your 2nd amendment rights more than you value the safety of children, because that's what it boils down to. If you're unwilling to waiver from any modifications to the 2nd, it's pretty clear.

I think all rights are a question of balance, the balance of the freedom of the individual vs. the harm to society. Alcohol, freedom of speech, freedom to own guns, etc. all carry risks. We don't allow people to own atomic bombs, we deem the risk too great compared to the individual freedom. On the other hand we accept that people will die due to having individual freedoms like being able to drink alcohol or have free speech. Guns are no different. And when compared to other things that kill us in far greater number that are less restricted, it is hard for me to argue for more restriction on guns. If the government banned everything that can harm us we'd all live to 100, eh?
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,616
3,471
136
He is gonna get Dixie Chicked.

Yep, if you don't at least pretend to embrace the groupthink in country music your career is probably toast. Although DC still have pretty successful tours, I hardly ever hear them on the radio even now.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
Yet more proof that conservatives have a very low empathy response and a very high fear response. It's the "I don't care when it happens to you, but I'm terrified that it happened to me". About what I expected.
 
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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Yet more proof that conservatives have a very low empathy response and a very high fear response. It's the "I don't care when it happens to you, but I'm terrified that it happened to me". About what I expected.

Hey, I'm just happy that he did actually have a change of heart. It's a shame that it took the deaths of at least 59 people for him to see reason, but that beats what we've seen from many conservatives, including some on this forum. You get the impression that a few here wouldn't flinch at any mass murder.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
Can anyone point to any poster here or in the other thread that have called for a ban on guns? No? Then its odd that the counter arguments against gun control are against something no one is proposing.

Fucking dumbass gun nutters.
 
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