"Coup d'etat" in Honduras

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: OCguy
Excellent. Something needs to slow the leftist movement. :thumbsup:

You're an enemy of democracy.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Wreckem
The Honduran Constitution last revised in 2005

The question is whether the Supreme Court acted within the law. If they did, if they have the power to order the president's removal this way I think that's a pretty questionable law to have, but I'm ok with what happened in that case - this president appears to have made some bad choices as well. But if the court acted illegally, it's a coup and not ok.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
My poignant addition to this thread is: South American sucks.

honduras is not in south 'american'

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
There will be a summit in Nicaragua tomorrow, and Zelaya will attend, with Chavez providing him with transportation.

Expect much huffing and puffing from El Presidente from Venezuela about the Yankee Imperialist CIA coup. What he won't admit is that there are actually people in South America who prefer not to have the same president for life.

That's what Elections are for.

And that is what rigging the elections is for...

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Wreckem
The Honduran Constitution last revised in 2005

The question is whether the Supreme Court acted within the law. If they did, if they have the power to order the president's removal this way I think that's a pretty questionable law to have, but I'm ok with what happened in that case - this president appears to have made some bad choices as well. But if the court acted illegally, it's a coup and not ok.

its more ok then letting him stay in power in my opinion.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: nullzero

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
There will be a summit in Nicaragua tomorrow, and Zelaya will attend, with Chavez providing him with transportation.

Expect much huffing and puffing from El Presidente from Venezuela about the Yankee Imperialist CIA coup. What he won't admit is that there are actually people in South America who prefer not to have the same president for life.

That's what Elections are for.

And that is what rigging the elections is for...

Impossible. Just ask the Iranians.

 

[OCGuy]

Chavez has come out and said it was Obama behind it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8123126.stm


"Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, blamed "the Yankee empire", and threatened military action should the Venezuelan ambassador to Honduras be attacked;"



So here we go. We have the true whacko-Leftists against what is considered Left in our country (Obama.)

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: OCguy
Chavez has come out and said it was Obama behind it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8123126.stm


"Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, blamed "the Yankee empire", and threatened military action should the Venezuelan ambassador to Honduras be attacked;"

I suspect Chavez is likely lying/recklessly speculating about that. Of course, a lot of people assume the CIA is never involved, that its billions are spent for nothing.

Then again, perhaps Chavez deserves to get some slack for his supicions, given that he *was* removed as the elected leader in a US-supported coup.

And those who ranged from championing the coup to silence to denying the US role should have a little shame before throwing stones.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: nullzero

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
There will be a summit in Nicaragua tomorrow, and Zelaya will attend, with Chavez providing him with transportation.

Expect much huffing and puffing from El Presidente from Venezuela about the Yankee Imperialist CIA coup. What he won't admit is that there are actually people in South America who prefer not to have the same president for life.

That's what Elections are for.

And that is what rigging the elections is for...

There's zero evidence here of the Honduran elections being rigged. Rigged elections are an issue; you can't just make up rigging to remove elected leaders whenever you like.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: OCguy
Chavez has come out and said it was Obama behind it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8123126.stm


"Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, blamed "the Yankee empire", and threatened military action should the Venezuelan ambassador to Honduras be attacked;"

I suspect Chavez is likely lying/recklessly speculating about that. Of course, a lot of people assume the CIA is never involved, that its billions are spent for nothing.

Then again, perhaps Chavez deserves to get some slack for his supicions, given that he *was* removed as the elected leader in a US-supported coup.

And those who ranged from championing the coup to silence to denying the US role should have a little shame before throwing stones.

Always standing up for you hero, Chavez. Sounds like the military did the correct thing, if the president was disobeying the supreme court he needs to be removed.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: OCguy
Chavez has come out and said it was Obama behind it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8123126.stm


"Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, blamed "the Yankee empire", and threatened military action should the Venezuelan ambassador to Honduras be attacked;"

I suspect Chavez is likely lying/recklessly speculating about that. Of course, a lot of people assume the CIA is never involved, that its billions are spent for nothing.

Then again, perhaps Chavez deserves to get some slack for his supicions, given that he *was* removed as the elected leader in a US-supported coup.

And those who ranged from championing the coup to silence to denying the US role should have a little shame before throwing stones.

And here you have it folks. Given a choice between an American (D) president, and Chavez, Craig defends Chavez. :laugh:

Pick better idols.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: OCguy

And here you have it folks. Given a choice between an American (D) president, and Chavez, Craig defends Chavez. :laugh:

Pick better idols.

Some people are so far to the left that they have lost their abilities to reason.

None of these leftists in Latin America has really done anything right to make things better for their people. Yet they are defended because the leftists down there also believe in "spreading the wealth".

 

[Dari]

Another President for Life? Kill him.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: OCguy

And here you have it folks. Given a choice between an American (D) president, and Chavez, Craig defends Chavez. :laugh:

Pick better idols.

Some people are so far to the left that they have lost their abilities to reason.

None of these leftists in Latin America has really done anything right to make things better for their people. Yet they are defended because the leftists down there also believe in "spreading the wealth".

they are doing a reasonable job in brazil

 

[Craig234]

smack down:

Always standing up for you hero, Chavez.

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: OCguy

And here you have it folks. Given a choice between an American (D) president, and Chavez, Craig defends Chavez. :laugh:

Pick better idols.

Some people are so far to the left that they have lost their abilities to reason.

None of these leftists in Latin America has really done anything right to make things better for their people. Yet they are defended because the leftists down there also believe in "spreading the wealth".

It takes a special kind of idiot to translate:

I suspect Chavez is likely lying/recklessly speculating about that.

As 'choosing Chavez over Obama'.

The people who are so challenged at reading coprehension post too frequently proving it.

Saying it's understandable why Chavez might have some paranoia after what happened isn't 'choosing Chavez over Obama'.

 

[Red Irish]

Clarification for those who don't speak Spanish:


Article 42.5 of the Constitution:

La calidad de ciudadano se pierde:

Por incitar, promover o apoyar el continuismo o la reelección del Presidente de la República


The status of citizen is revoked:

for inciting, promoting or supporting the continuism or re-election of the President of the Republic


The footnote at the end of the article states that declaration of revoked citizenship will be issued via a governmental order, following a sentence issued by the courts with jurisdiction.


Obviously, to be President, you must hold citizenship.

 

[Sacrilege]

Of course American leftists love Chavez. Seizing private property is their wet dream they want to come to America. Economically speaking, leftists are losers. They cannot create or make, so they must take.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
Of course American leftists love Chavez. Seizing private property is their wet dream they want to come to America. Economically speaking, leftists are losers. They cannot create or make, so they must take.

I'd be interested to know what you consider a Chavez loving Leftist? I don't think he's to popular among the vast majority of Americans on either side of the political spectrum.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
Of course American leftists love Chavez. Seizing private property is their wet dream they want to come to America. Economically speaking, leftists are losers. They cannot create or make, so they must take.

I'd be interested to know what you consider a Chavez loving Leftist? I don't think he's to popular among the vast majority of Americans on either side of the political spectrum.

Or elsewhere:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3Kzbo7tNLg

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
There will be a summit in Nicaragua tomorrow, and Zelaya will attend, with Chavez providing him with transportation.

Expect much huffing and puffing from El Presidente from Venezuela about the Yankee Imperialist CIA coup. What he won't admit is that there are actually people in South America who prefer not to have the same president for life.

That's what Elections are for.

hahaha Are you really that naive? How realistic are elections to remove wanna-be-dictator-for-life types in third world countries? How realistic is it to think the opposition has a chance when opposition leaders end up in jail, under house arrest or "missing"?

The supreme court there, with the help of the military and the congress took the appropriate steps to remove a future tyrant. Assuming they hand power back to the normal democratic process, I'd say it's an excellent job.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
There will be a summit in Nicaragua tomorrow, and Zelaya will attend, with Chavez providing him with transportation.

Expect much huffing and puffing from El Presidente from Venezuela about the Yankee Imperialist CIA coup. What he won't admit is that there are actually people in South America who prefer not to have the same president for life.

That's what Elections are for.

hahaha Are you really that naive? How realistic are elections to remove wanna-be-dictator-for-life types in third world countries? How realistic is it to think the opposition has a chance when opposition leaders end up in jail, under house arrest or "missing"?

The supreme court there, with the help of the military and the congress took the appropriate steps to remove a future tyrant. Assuming they hand power back to the normal democratic process, I'd say it's an excellent job.

Except that there is no evidence of any of those election problems here about Honduras.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
Clarification for those who don't speak Spanish:


Article 42.5 of the Constitution:

La calidad de ciudadano se pierde:

Por incitar, promover o apoyar el continuismo o la reelección del Presidente de la República


The status of citizen is revoked:

for inciting, promoting or supporting the continuism or re-election of the President of the Republic


The footnote at the end of the article states that declaration of revoked citizenship will be issued via a governmental order, following a sentence issued by the courts with jurisdiction.


Obviously, to be President, you must hold citizenship.

I played around a bit with the constitution too (Babel Fish helps) and found the same thing you mention.

A few immediate questions, though, are, what is the process for removing citizenship, and did they remove his citizenship? And, is it fair to lump in advocating a referendum to change the constitution to allow re-election, with advocating re-election under the current constitution?

That logic is a bit like saying that wanting to pass an amendment to the American constitution makes you an enemy of the consitution, even though the constitution itself contains the instructions for amendment (as well it should). Again, this is why the legal specificis will help.

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
There will be a summit in Nicaragua tomorrow, and Zelaya will attend, with Chavez providing him with transportation.

Expect much huffing and puffing from El Presidente from Venezuela about the Yankee Imperialist CIA coup. What he won't admit is that there are actually people in South America who prefer not to have the same president for life.

That's what Elections are for.

hahaha Are you really that naive? How realistic are elections to remove wanna-be-dictator-for-life types in third world countries? How realistic is it to think the opposition has a chance when opposition leaders end up in jail, under house arrest or "missing"?

The supreme court there, with the help of the military and the congress took the appropriate steps to remove a future tyrant. Assuming they hand power back to the normal democratic process, I'd say it's an excellent job.

Except that there is no evidence of any of those election problems here about Honduras.

If you wait and let things get to that point, it's too late and you end up with a presidente-for-life like Chavez. This guy was clearly heading in that direction, and the appropriate action was taken to make sure he didn't. He was already openly in defiance of the top court's rulings. If the US SCOTUS ruled on an issue and the president just said "who cares what those guys said, I'm gonna decide anyway!", would that be OK as well? In a country like the US, there are viable mechanisms for removing people before things go too far. In third world countries, that mechanism simply is not strong enough, the strongman type leaders are above it.

I'd have a problem with the military installing some generalisimo as the new leader or something like that, but they are simply acting to preserve democracy, they are stepping back and handing the reigns back to congress and the people. It's not much different than the Turkish military ensuring a secular government.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
There will be a summit in Nicaragua tomorrow, and Zelaya will attend, with Chavez providing him with transportation.

Expect much huffing and puffing from El Presidente from Venezuela about the Yankee Imperialist CIA coup. What he won't admit is that there are actually people in South America who prefer not to have the same president for life.

That's what Elections are for.

Kind of like the Venezuelan election where the opposition candidates are murdered or in hiding.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Red Irish
Clarification for those who don't speak Spanish:


Article 42.5 of the Constitution:

La calidad de ciudadano se pierde:

Por incitar, promover o apoyar el continuismo o la reelección del Presidente de la República


The status of citizen is revoked:

for inciting, promoting or supporting the continuism or re-election of the President of the Republic


The footnote at the end of the article states that declaration of revoked citizenship will be issued via a governmental order, following a sentence issued by the courts with jurisdiction.


Obviously, to be President, you must hold citizenship.

I played around a bit with the constitution too (Babel Fish helps) and found the same thing you mention.

A few immediate questions, though, are, what is the process for removing citizenship, and did they remove his citizenship? And, is it fair to lump in advocating a referendum to change the constitution to allow re-election, with advocating re-election under the current constitution?

That logic is a bit like saying that wanting to pass an amendment to the American constitution makes you an enemy of the consitution, even though the constitution itself contains the instructions for amendment (as well it should). Again, this is why the legal specificis will help.

The Honduran constituion apparently has several provisions that in the constitution itself says it cannot be changed. Yes, that means they cannot be amended. One of those provisions is term lengths. This is why no one supported him because what he was trying to do was forbidden verbatim by the Honduran Constitution.