Cousin getting First Communion, Grandmother wants me to write her smth. I'm atheist.

[Skiddex]

from my perspective, this is one of the joys out of being an atheist. still enjoy going to weddings, first communions, and so on. i'll read in them, its no skin off of my back and its not 'going against my beliefs'. its their beliefs and doesn't require me to believe them at all to do something that is important to them.

"arent you worried you will burst into flames when you touch the bible!?!?"
"thats your worry, not mine "

 

[AstroManLuca]

Based on your thread title, I thought you were being asked to write something special and not just being asked to sign your name on a card that everyone was signing.

Just write congratulations and be done with it. You're not being asked to stand up and deliver a speech about something you know nothing about.

 

[zinfamous]

Every time I come into a thread a I find this Japanese child shit posted, please stop it man. I'm sure I'm not the only one it's pissing off.

...who stole your account?

:hmm:

 

[Fayd]

Every time I come into a thread a I find this Japanese child shit posted, please stop it man. I'm sure I'm not the only one it's pissing off.

who the fuck are you to whine about others? everyone on this forum hates you.

 

[SunnyD]

You write, Congrats bro!

You put family before religion, bro. You don't disrespect your grand mama just 'cause you have beef w/ religion.

This. You need not have any religious overtones to whatever congratulation you write.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Ooooo - you got me. I didn't know a fucking thing about whatever random anime picture you posted. You gave me less context that the OP did and you think this is somehow a valid comparison?

There was no "gotcha" involved.

By not knowing anything about it you were an atheist in regards to it. That was the only point -- to illustrate the difficulty that an atheist would have in faking a reaction to a religious ritual.

I'll bet that card had something on it that would give a pretty goddamn big clue as to what sort of thing he sould write. If it was a condolances you write something for that. If it said 'Congradulations' in big fucking bold letters you write something along those lines. Hard to fake...good god you are dumb sometimes.

What makes you think one of the Seven Sacraments of the Catholic Church ("Sacrament" coming from the word "sacred") would be deserving of such lame blanket treatment?

The Eucharist, also called the Most Blessed Sacrament, is the sacrament (the third of Christian initiation,[15] the one that the Catechism of the Catholic Church says "completes Christian initiation")[16] by which Catholics partake of the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ and participate in his one sacrifice.

"Congratulations" would be inappropriate -- it's not a victory. Congratulations may be in order for Confirmation, though.
See, there are nuances that you're just gonna miss unless you actually work the mythology.

Pride should be the overwhelming emotion of a relative, but the OP doesn't believe there's anything to be proud of -- it's just a kid who doesn't know better going through a meaningless ritual. So he doesn't really have anything to say regarding it. He's been put on the spot expected to express the appropriate emotion for the setting when he doesn't agree on what the setting truly is.

Within the religious context he has nothing to say, and he can't match it with anything secular -- the occasion is not secular so nothing he'd have to say would fit.

Your example of marriage is in no way analogous. Marriage is a real secular entity. Religious overtones just reinforce the secular ones, so you can get by with just responding to the secular nature. With the Eucharist, however, the only secular activity is eating a cracker and drinking some wine. "Congratulations on your ability to eat solids and drink liquids" is not an oft-expressed sentiment.

 

[Tobolo]

I grew in a christian family and attended christian school. I just want to say this, I respect your position and under stand the difficulty. But if this is something that your cousin is happy about then you should be happy for her. You don't have to agree with what shes doing.

Hell my cousin married an idiot but she was happy so I supported her. No big deal. Thats what family is for.

 

[sandorski]

"Always be true to yourself" or some other nice but generic point.

 

[Theb]

I was an Atheist living in a Christian world. I did the best I could. I tried to to follow my own moral code. My panties were violently twisted anytime I encountered something contrary to my strict non-belief system.
One day my Grandma asked me to write a note to my cousin on for her first communion.

Now I spend most of my time in the fetal position listening to Linkin' Park.

I am the 99%.

 

[Theb]

Dearest Cousin,

How about just the tip?

Yours in Christ,

anyusername

 

[Exterous]

There was no "gotcha" involved.

By not knowing anything about it you were an atheist in regards to it. That was the only point -- to illustrate the difficulty that an atheist would have in faking a reaction to a religious ritual.

Only if you choose to ignore the almost assured inclusion of contextual clues in the card. There may have also been other people signing the card which would have also provided clues as to the purpose. I maintain that it was a flawed comparison due to its lack of additional contextual clues the OP would have been provided

What makes you think one of the Seven Sacraments of the Catholic Church ("Sacrament" coming from the word "sacred") would be deserving of such lame blanket treatment?

"Congratulations" would be inappropriate -- it's not a victory. Congratulations may be in order for Confirmation, though.
See, there are nuances that you're just gonna miss unless you actually work the mythology.

You may want to re-read my post. Where did I say that Congradulations would be appropriate in the case of first communion? Hint: I didn't. It was very cearly mentioned in relation to the writing on a card.

Pride should be the overwhelming emotion of a relative, but the OP doesn't believe there's anything to be proud of -- it's just a kid who doesn't know better going through a meaningless ritual.

That it is a 'meaningless ritual' is very clearly an opinion that may or may not be shared by the kid and family involved. A 7 year old is very capable of partaking in things that they would consider meaningful. Furthermore why does it have to be only Pride related? Is that the only reason you give a card or express sentiment in written form? I give cards and express sentiment for many more reasons than pride alone

With the Eucharist, however, the only secular activity is eating a cracker and drinking some wine. "Congratulations on your ability to eat solids and drink liquids" is not an oft-expressed sentiment.

Hardly. It very easily fits as an example of a Right of Passage of which there are countless examples

 

[AstroManLuca]

Only if you choose to ignore the almost assured inclusion of contextual clues in the card



You may want to re-read my post. Where did I say that Congradulations would be appropriate in this specific case?



That it is a 'meaningless ritual' is very clearly an opinion that may or may not be shared by the kid and family involved. A 7 year old is very capable of partaking in things that they would consider meaningful. Furthermore why does it have to be only Pride related? Is that the only reason you give a card? I give cards and express sentiment for many more reasons than pride alone



Hardly. It very easily fits as an example of a Right of Passage of which there are countless examples

don't bother responding to DominionAutist's posts

 

[IAteYourMother]

Do some atheists also get bent out of shape when they're invited to bar Mitzvahs?? Oh noes, how can I ever say something positive? I'm not Jewish!!!

 

[Macamus Prime]

What do you think I should do?

Protest her 1st communion, Westboro church style.

"Mother nature wants you to choke on the 'body' of Christ!!!"

"You deserve mono!!!"

"The wine will turn you into an alcholic and the bread will make you fat - DIE!!!!"

 

[zinfamous]

awesome.

A troll thread trolled by Pony Boy.

 

[darkswordsman17]

awesome.

A troll thread trolled by Pony Boy.

Didn't he kill a greaser?

 

[jupiter57]

awesome.

A troll thread trolled by Pony Boy.

Didn't he kill a greaser?

LOL!
Yeah, sure he did.
How would a greaser get into his mommies basement?

 

[DominionSeraph]

Hardly. It very easily fits as an example of a Right of Passage of which there are countless examples

To an atheist there's no passage there. It's getting dressed up to eat a cracker and drink a sip of wine. There's nothing happening there -- it marks nothing.

Confirmation would be different as that symbolizes a closer tie to the religion, and religion actually exists. So an atheist could make note of the meaning of the relationship.

Do some atheists also get bent out of shape when they're invited to bar Mitzvahs?? Oh noes, how can I ever say something positive? I'm not Jewish!!!

Bar Mitzvah is a coming of age ceremony. It marks a change in perception by the adults and it is not limited to merely relating to meaningless religious ceremonies. Human perception actually exists.
So it marks nothing about the child, only something about the adults surrounding him. Shifting to a view that the boy is old enough to start taking on adult responsibilities is not a difficult shift to make, and there is nothing religious about it.

 

[Exterous]

To an atheist there's no passage there. It's getting dressed up to eat a cracker and drink a sip of wine. There's nothing happening there -- it marks nothing.

Confirmation would be different as that symbolizes a closer tie to the religion, and religion actually exists. So an atheist could make note of the meaning of the relationship.

How can you see the possibility of noting the meaning of the relationship of one but not the other? I mean, one of them symbolizes a closer tie with religion - oh wait - thats both of them...

hifting to a view that the boy is old enough to start taking on adult responsibilities is not a difficult shift to make, and there is nothing religious about it.

Wait...what? It is specifically a religious ceremony. Its based in Jewish law! You know what Jewish law is right? ITS RELIGIOUS LAW and the whole thing is a RELIGIOUS CEREMONY

 

[iliopsoas]

Just write something generic like "Congratulations." It's obviously something important to your family.

No need to be a selfish douche.

 

[BurnItDwn]

"Congratulations, happy communion!"

Think of it not as selling yourself out, but simply showing support in a family member and realizing that they have different life experiences and therefore, they essentially live in a different reality vs you.

Same way that you wish your Christian friends a happy Christmas, and maybe if you're friends with Catholics you go to some place that serves fish at lunch time to accommodate them. Sometimes you might go to places that serve Zabiha Halal food to accommodate your Muslim friends (though if it's Ramadan, you simply don't even talk about food as they will likely be quite hungry and fasting until dark)
, and other times you may go to a Kosher place to accommodate your Jewish friends...

I guess it could be called respect.

Even if you are not shown the same respect and tolerance by others, you should still show it TO others, for that is the golden rule.

 

[Madwand1]

My initial reaction was to flat out refuse it, but she insists and I take it. So here I am thinking if I should write something or not. Although my writing or not writing will likely have no impact on what my cousin's beliefs might one day be (I myself was raised catholic and got my First Communion), I just feel like I am betraying my own views and somewhat endorsing religion, which I frankly consider a plague. However, my not writing may not be taken well by her family or maybe they won't even care, idk, but my grandmother won't be pleased.

Your grandmother might not have been pleased, but would she have been right? The fact that she's especially religious makes this seem to be more than just a matter of being nice to your cousin -- it is a religious matter, and by insisting that you partake, your right of independence of belief and practice is being challenged. Being ostracized, etc., are part & parcel of forced religious conformance, but the fear of such consequences doesn't make unwilling conformance any better.

That said, freedom of religion or non-religion goes both ways. The family at large should be able to function at social events which happen to have religious components without religious disagreements dividing the family -- the non-religious should not impose non-religion on social functions just as the religious should not impose religion on the non-religious.

While a generic "have a nice day" might have satisfied the immediate needs, it left the question and concern about religious conformance unanswered and uncontested. I think it might have been better to say something which better expressed the personal stance, while also showing respect for different beliefs and the social event.

E.g.

Dear OP,

Atheism and agnosticism are not what they once were to me, but I respect your right to your beliefs (and non-beliefs) and wish you a happy thread.

 

[OverVolt]

Isn't it hypocritical to go through the process yourself before being an atheist? The kid can make his own decisions so just write something generic, maybe even funny. I doubt he is having the time of his life doing first communion, it is not a big deal.

I have lots of gripes with catholicism, they made alot of mistakes. They disconnected from the current generation. There really was alot of potential. Their ideas of how you should live are for a certain target audience and it is just not happening in today's society. Society went the total opposite direction, and the church is falling flat on it's face.

It's actually a shame neoliberalism took it's place, ugh. Society could definitely use some sort of direction other than NFL Sunday's.

 

[DominionSeraph]

How can you see the possibility of noting the meaning of the relationship of one but not the other? I mean, one of them symbolizes a closer tie with religion - oh wait - thats both of them...

No, it's only one of them.

Wait...what?

No, I will not wait. Keep up or go home.

 

[JEDIYoda]

who the fuck are you to whine about others? everyone on this forum hates you.

who appointed you to speak for everyone?????????????