Covidiots thread

[akugami]

Where to rant? Here? A new thread? Certainly worth a new thread but I'll do it here.
The people who refuse to vaccinate, the people who refuse to mask up are killing us all. Some killing us physically, but my concern is with those poor workers who are trying to stay working.

I went to my BestBuy to exchange an iPad for an iPad Air. I had an older iPad and BestBuy has this trade-in program. So their customer service is closed because the two people called in sick. Then a rep for Cisco Technologies (wearing a BestBuy outfit) was very helpful and directed me to the check-out registers, well.... they we not sure how to do the trade-in program either. ""Only a cs rep can help you with that, and cs is closed today"". Then this same Cisco rep (not officially a Best Buy employee) tells me that the two cs reps had tested positive and that was why they called in sick.

The few people working at BestBuy were running their asses off trying to assist people. Two register clerks on duty, one poor guy in the geek-squad dept with a waiting line of 8 people waiting for a geek. It was pathetic. And I felt soooo sorry for these people who are TRYING to hold down a job however.... these god-damn anti-vaxxers and god-damn anti maskers are making life difficult for EVERYONE.

Finally, I drove many miles to another BestBuy and that store had one cs rep on duty that knew how to process the trade-in program. I know... I know... you can do this online but my particular iPad was not coming up in the list (online), so I needed in-store assistance. Job done! New iPad Air in the sack.

To be fair to those particular workers, and giving them the benefit of the doubt, vaccines are not a magic bullet. You can still catch COVID even after being fully protected. But I do agree with your point. And it's not just workers at businesses who are doing the right thing, and having to pick up the slack for anti-vaxxers, but also healthcare staff who are horribly overworked at this point.

Then I stopped by a Wendy's to get the doggies a hamburger treat (something they love), and the drive-thru line was atrocious. But I waited... And realized that only two workers were on staff with the two staff taking orders, handling the payment window, cooking the food, and operating the handout window. Again, I felt soooo sorry for these people working that I felt like tipping them $20 each just for being there and just for trying. And then again I realized... this is solely the blame of the god-damn anti-vaxxers and the god damn anti maskers. THEY are spreading the covid around like a plague, and refusing to do their patriotic duty. You know, like Americans did during other pandemics (polio) and during wars (WWII). Back then, patriotism meant being a patriotic, not an obstructionist.

Again, to be fair, a lot of the blame is to these asshole corporations bleeding the American workers dry. There is no reason a C level exec is making 100x to 1000x what a normal worker makes. There is no way in hell I'd work for $7.20 an hour and putting up with the shit I've seen some chain restaurant workers deal with. I don't know if $15 an hour is the way to go, that might be too high, but at least $10 an hour nationwide, and it would depend on the cost of living in a given geographical area if it should be higher or not. The cost of living in rural Idaho is cheaper than a major metropolitan city like Los Angeles or Seattle. And we need guaranteed health insurance for all workers. For the love of all that is good, Germany has free healthcare and free college tuition. If the country that birthed Hitler can get their shit together, why can't the US?

Yes, those anti everything assholes are the only people keeping America from returning to normal, And to top it off, the republican governors within those republican states have blocked the stimulus assistance of $300 to the workers. So..... you have state republican lawmakers passing laws banning mask mandates and blocking schools from imposing masks, and you also have these very same republican lawmakers blocking that $300 financial aid to people working within that state. AND.... you still have workers getting sick with covid, testing positive for covid. The asshole republican governors/lawmakers along with the anti everything assholes are making life extremely unbearable for all of America.

Agreed. Many of these folks want to work. Is it any wonder that they don't want to go back to a shitty job that pays them a non-livable wage? It's a combination of shitty politicians not caring about their constituents and catering to large corporations. C level exec has to choose between a new yacht or a new jet, normal workers have to choose between a roof over their head or food on the table.

These assholes protest in front of schools, they protest in front of government buildings, they protest in neighborhoods about how THEIR PERSONAL FREEDOM is sooooo threatened. And all the while the people out there who are trying so hard to do the right thing with working and keeping businesses open are the people suffering in so many ways. All because a bunch of republican ass-wipes can join the overgrowing cult of delusional PERSONAL FREEDOM PROTECTORS.

I'm sorry, but someone has to start shooting these assholes in the asshole because their antics and the antics of republican ran states are spoiling it for the rest of us. THEY are the people keeping America so screwed up. I say abduct them, knock them out, force inject them with the shot, and be done with it. Do whatever it takes to GET AMERICA VACCINATED, or we will come after YOU!

I don't even know what the right thing to do with them is. They are ripping masks off teachers and children. Because somehow you wearing a mask infringes on their freedom. Now that we have a fully FDA approved COVID vaccine, there isn't the excuse of it not being FDA approved, but I know they'll have another spin on why the vaccine is bad. Some positives are health insurance companies saying they will deny COVID care costs for those who remain unvaccinated, employers mandating vaccines to continue working, and some like Delta Airlines implementing a work surcharge for those who remain unvaccinated.

 

[Paratus]

To be clear, at no point have I advised against masks, vaccines or any current measures of prevention or treatment. I do take issue with those who think that vaccines are our only salvation and I feel that there is no where near enough discussion of alternative treatments and prevention. My position is that the vaccines are proving to be less effective as we gather more data which includes the delta variant and that a much greater emphasis should be placed on other forms of treatment and prevention.

You may not have noticed but all of the statistics you've cited above are increasing daily since Delta came on the scene and the percentages are only expected to rise as more people become vaccinated. This statement is telling - Up to 15 percent of deaths in May were among vaccinated people, the presentation shows. That contrasts with previous public CDC data showing deaths occur in a tiny number of vaccinated people, just 0.0005 percent. https://www.rollcall.com/2021/07/30/cdc-report-shows-vaccinated-people-can-spread-covid-19/

Since the arrival of the Delta strain, we've learned that the vaccines are not effective at preventing transmission. How effective they will prove to be at preventing hospitalization and/or death against delta and newer variants is still being evaluated. People are looking for some chance at a return to normalcy and the current vaccines are not going to provide that chance.

I don’t find the statistic, “up to 15% of deaths in May were vaccinated” in and of itself to be a negative.

Breakthrough cases were always expected and some will be fatal. As I said in another thread, if everyone was vaccinated then 100% of COVID deaths would be amongst the vaccinated. That says nothing about its efficacy other than it is not 100% protective which has never been claimed.

The real test is whether the vaccinated population drives the total number of hospitalized or dead lower than if they were unvaccinated and so far the data show that as an unambiguous yes.

By all means the medical community should continue looking for more effective post infection treatments but don’t kid yourself - they won’t find one more effective than a vaccine.

Things also won’t return to normal at least until kids under 12 can be vaccinated.

 

[RY62]

Those are two different statistics though, I don't see the logic in comparing those two figures, they are measuring different things.

What percentage of deaths were among vaccinated people, is a completely different stat to what percentage of vaccinated people die. Comparing those two, only tangentially-related, numbers borders on dishonesty.

Pretty obviously the former figure is going to be relatively high because the first people to be vaccinated were the elderly and medically-vulnerable, who are more likely to die than the young and healthy, who are also less likely to be represented among the vaccinated.

Personally I'm not entirely in disagreement with the argument that vaccines are not the be-all-and-end-all solution that we once thought they would be. Precisely because it now seems that Delta can be spread pretty widely even by vaccinated people. That's why it's probably a good idea to continue to be cautious and retain measures like masks and social-distancing, even among the vaccinated.

I'm not sure what you mean by "other forms of treatment". Vaccines aren't "treatment" anyway.

One could say that the former figure would be relatively high because of the reasons you've stated. One could also say that the earlier groups to be vaccinated were the groups far less likely to be engaging in riskier behaviors. As the younger and healthier, who are more likely to gather in mask less groups, are being vaxed in greater numbers today, we'll see if that holds true.

Vaccines aren't treatment but sometimes a treatment can work as a prevention. I'm all for clinical trials of existing drugs such as ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine and any other that shows a valid reason why it might work for treatment. One such treatment is Sotromivab. The S309 antibody in the Sotrovimab treatment is showing promise to be used prophylactically. https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2021/08/16/inescapable-covid19-antibody/

I have much more hope in this line of research than the current crop of vaccines.

 

[brycejones]

I have much more hope in this line of research than the current crop of vaccines.

Based on what education and experience?

 

[RY62]

Based on what education and experience?

When you can't debate the message, attack the messenger.

ad ho·mi·nem
/ˌad ˈhämənəm/

adjective

1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

 

[VW MAN]

When you can't debate the message, attack the messenger.

ad ho·mi·nem
/ˌad ˈhämənəm/

adjective

1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

When you cannot answer a simplee question - deflect, deflect, deflect.

Do I need to post the definition of deflect or are you going to actually answer the question that was asked of you?

 

[MtnMan]

Wow, NY NJ and MA have been at the top of the deaths per 1M people list for over a year. Looks like LA and MS displaced MA and now NY also per that link.

Those states were ground zero for the first surge. Hospitals weren't prepared, and treatments were just a fucking guessing game, PPE was a unicorn. Hospitals have upped their game, PPE is what it needs to be, and treatments regimes are better.

 

[brycejones]

When you can't debate the message, attack the messenger.

ad ho·mi·nem
/ˌad ˈhämənəm/

adjective

1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

I asked you a simple question and made no attack on you. You gave an opinion and I am trying to understand if your opinion is based on some level of expertise in the appropriate field or not.

Your immediate defensiveness leads me to believe you do not but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

[MtnMan]

When you can't debate the message, attack the messenger.

ad ho·mi·nem
/ˌad ˈhämənəm/

adjective

1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

What a fucking snowflake.

You weren't fucking attacked, but quick to throw down the victim card. He asked a fucking question, but apparently you are offended at that.

 

[digiram]

Right wingers politicizing this virus has blood on their hands. It’s real sad. This thing is just hitting close home so hard this year.

 

[Jhhnn]

To be clear, at no point have I advised against masks, vaccines or any current measures of prevention or treatment. I do take issue with those who think that vaccines are our only salvation and I feel that there is no where near enough discussion of alternative treatments and prevention. My position is that the vaccines are proving to be less effective as we gather more data which includes the delta variant and that a much greater emphasis should be placed on other forms of treatment and prevention.

You may not have noticed but all of the statistics you've cited above are increasing daily since Delta came on the scene and the percentages are only expected to rise as more people become vaccinated. This statement is telling - Up to 15 percent of deaths in May were among vaccinated people, the presentation shows. That contrasts with previous public CDC data showing deaths occur in a tiny number of vaccinated people, just 0.0005 percent. https://www.rollcall.com/2021/07/30/cdc-report-shows-vaccinated-people-can-spread-covid-19/

Since the arrival of the Delta strain, we've learned that the vaccines are not effective at preventing transmission. How effective they will prove to be at preventing hospitalization and/or death against delta and newer variants is still being evaluated. People are looking for some chance at a return to normalcy and the current vaccines are not going to provide that chance.

That's just another flavor of anti-vax messaging. The hospitals aren't being buried under cases among the vaccinated. Even if it's not entirely effective at preventing infection vaccination greatly reduces overall severity of infection in the population. Regeneron & monoclonal antibodies aren't nearly as effective. Setting up clinics in Florida to administer the latter just encourages the idiots to remain unvaccinated.

COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Cases: Data from the States | KFF

We reviewed the websites and other official state sources for all 50 states and D.C. to see which are providing data on COVID-19 breakthrough cases, hospitalizations and deaths, how regularly, and what those data may tell us.

www.kff.org

 

[esquared]

I can't believe he brought up HCQ as a a possible medical treatment for covid-19 infection.
That was already rebuffed multiple times in multiple clinical trials as doing exactly jack shit.

 

[Paratus]

I can't believe he brought up HCQ as a a possible medical treatment for covid-19 infection.
That was already rebuffed multiple times in multiple clinical trials as doing exactly jack shit.

That’s why I don’t need him to answer the question about his background with that statement he already answered it.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Those states were ground zero for the first surge. Hospitals weren't prepared, and treatments were just a fucking guessing game, PPE was a unicorn. Hospitals have upped their game, PPE is what it needs to be, and treatments regimes are better.

Yep, just took a long time to knock MA and NY out of their top 3 spots. Not exactly something I'm celebrating, just saying.

And @Fanatical Meat is right, we'll see what happens....winter is coming 😉

 

[Bitek]

...
Vaccines aren't treatment but sometimes a treatment can work as a prevention. ...

I have much more hope in this line of research than the current crop of vaccines.

No, treatments are treatments. It's not a substitute for the vaccine.

By definition, to need treatment means you are already infected and symptomatic.

Which assumes the virus is still spreading, infecting and mutating. All of this we need to avoid if we are every going to suppress the virus.

Vaccines limit spread, infection and symptoms.

..I'm all for clinical trials of existing drugs such as ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine and any other that shows a valid reason why it might work for treatment. One such treatment is Sotromivab. The S309 antibody in the Sotrovimab treatment is showing promise to be used prophylactically. https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2021/08/16/inescapable-covid19-antibody/



I have much more hope in this line of research than the current crop of vaccines.

The Hydroxy?

Jesus. Get real. Should we be testing bleach injection too?


Treatments, real treatments, are useful, but they are not the first line of defense.

No one should be saying "Its fine I eat garbage and fast food all the time because I can just get an angioplasty and stints..."

Dumb logic in this post

 

[zinfamous]

Doctor in Arkansas has evidently prescribed "thousands of people" the animal anti-parasitic ivermectin for COVID. Prescribed it to numerous incarcerated inmates in the county jail and apparently the sheriff there thinks it's a great idea. Doctor is under investigation by Arkansas medical board.

Arkansas doctor under investigation for prescribing anti-parasitic drug thousands of times for Covid-19 despite FDA warning | CNN

The Arkansas Medical Board is investigating after a doctor said he prescribed an anti-parasitic drug "thousands" of times for treatment of Covid-19, including to inmates in an Arkansas jail.

www.cnn.com

I guess he was absent that day in medical school when they taught the importance of evidence based medicine.

uh, he was using prisoners for his experiment. How else do you expect him to get the evidence?

duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh

/s if you didn't know

 

[dank69]

One or two heart attacks while in ICU, and for months in ICU, instead of weeks.

This guy's wife died and he's still attending anti-vax rallies:

GOP lawmaker says wife who died of COVID-19 didn't get vaccine due to 'conflicting information'

Rep. Chris Johansen, of Monticello, made the comment on Facebook in an apparent response to widespread news reports that he had attended last week’s rally shortly after the passing of his wife, Cindy Johansen.

bangordailynews.com

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Yep, just took a long time to knock MA and NY out of their top 3 spots. Not exactly something I'm celebrating, just saying.

And @Fanatical Meat is right, we'll see what happens....winter is coming 😉

Well it is very possible it is our high vaccination compliance. We got to 60% very rapidly and currently are around 75% (I think)
However I am superstitious about bragging I hope the Governor didn't jinx us

Gov. Baker points to low positivity rate as proof vaccines are working

 

[H T C]

This guy's wife died and he's still attending anti-vax rallies:

GOP lawmaker says wife who died of COVID-19 didn't get vaccine due to 'conflicting information'

Rep. Chris Johansen, of Monticello, made the comment on Facebook in an apparent response to widespread news reports that he had attended last week’s rally shortly after the passing of his wife, Cindy Johansen.

bangordailynews.com

He obviously wanted to get rid of her and COVID was "just an excuse".

Besides, it didn't happen to HIM.

 

[cytg111]

We’ll see if it comes to pass as predicted, winter is coming. Coming for the disinformed. Year of the culling.

 

[allisolm]

I'm all for clinical trials of existing drugs such as ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine and any other that shows a valid reason why it might work for treatment. One such treatment is Sotromivab. The S309 antibody in the Sotrovimab treatment is showing promise to be used prophylactically. https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2021/08/16/inescapable-covid19-antibody/

Please tell us what valid reasons have been shown for hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin as treatment for covid.

As for Sotrovimab, it was approved by the FDA for emergency use treatment of covid months ago.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Not covidiots, but it seems this thread has taken over as the primary P&N covid thread.

I have one coworker with covid who's been really up and down with it. Had symptoms, got hit hard, started feeling better, got hit hard again. Kinda scary when you don't know which way it's gonna go. Hoping he makes a complete recovery.

Another coworker is going in for round2 of his vaccine in a couple of weeks. While I'm sad it took him this long, I'm also glad he's getting vaccinated period.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Well it is very possible it is our high vaccination compliance. We got to 60% very rapidly and currently are around 75% (I think)
However I am superstitious about bragging I hope the Governor didn't jinx us

Gov. Baker points to low positivity rate as proof vaccines are working

Oh govna, how quickly he forgot that cape cod was a red zone most of July and August 🤣

 

[conehead433]

I have used berberine to cure strep throat, and it supposedly can cure stapf infections as well. Berberine is barberry root extract combined with goldenseal root extract and is one, if not the most potent natural antibiotic in existence. I strongly suspect that it will heal Covid if it's not a case where someone already had to be intubated. It works over the course of a week just like amoxicillin and other prescribed antibiotics. The good thing is that berberine does not destroy the body's natural flora like the prescription antibiotics do. Additionally berberine reduces blood pressure, high cholesterol, and helps regulate blood sugar levels. Even if it could cure Covid there is no vested interest in promoting it because the pharmaceutical companies wouldn't be making any money off of it.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Oh govna, how quickly he forgot that cape cod was a red zone most of July and August 🤣

Yeah but I get the point I just hate to say it.
For weeks consistently TX & FL or even AK have had similar covid spread numbers but ours result with fewer hospitalized and dead.
Admittedly I do dummy math a say FL is 3x of MA so our 146 hopitalized average equals 500 in FL population numbers but FL has nearly 3700 hospitalized.
The 6(ish) times more repeats itself frequently. We need to go back to end of June to see FL at 500 hospitalized.
Also another thing I noticed which again is totally non scientific. MA deaths and hospitalization dropped off dramatically when we hit 60% fully vaccinated. FL met the 60% last week and their deaths number is declining similar to how it did in MA.

Again not to jinx it
We have been hearing vaccinated account for 15% (1/6-ish) of the cases and it appears to be true.
Seems the vaccines work, similar infection rates far fewer hospitalized and dead in a high vax compliant State but yes winter is coming.

Data come from here:

U.S. COVID Risk & Vaccine Tracker

Covid Act Now has real-time tracking of your community's COVID risk level. Explore how Massachusetts is doing.

covidactnow.org