Covidiots thread

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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Well, now it seems, with Omicron here, the only reason to get vaxxed is for personal safety. The CDC has verified masks wont stop it, and you can still pass it to others if youre vaxxed and show no symptoms. But, for those who about viruses, Omicron is simply doing what viruses do: evolve into something that is much more transmittable, yet weaker than than the original.

Omicron Variant: What You Need to Know | CDC
The Omicron variant likely will spread more easily than the original SARS-CoV-2 virus and how easily Omicron spreads compared to Delta remains unknown. CDC expects that anyone with Omicron infection can spread the virus to others, even if they are vaccinated or don’t have symptoms.

Current vaccines are expected to protect against severe illness, hospitalizations, and deaths due to infection with the Omicron variant. However, breakthrough infections in people who are fully vaccinated are likely to occur. With other variants, like Delta, vaccines have remained effective at preventing severe illness, hospitalizations, and death. The recent emergence of Omicron further emphasizes the importance of vaccination and boosters.

But theres still alot we dont know.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,099
53,458
136
Well, now it seems, with Omicron here, the only reason to get vaxxed is for personal safety. The CDC has verified masks wont stop it, and you can still pass it to others if youre vaxxed and show no symptoms. But, for those who about viruses, Omicron is simply doing what viruses do: evolve into something that is much more transmittable, yet weaker than than the original.

Omicron Variant: What You Need to Know | CDC




But theres still alot we dont know.
This is not correct - boosted people are much less likely to contract omicron than non-boosted.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,447
6,294
126
Well, now it seems, with Omicron here, the only reason to get vaxxed is for personal safety. The CDC has verified masks wont stop it, and you can still pass it to others if youre vaxxed and show no symptoms. But, for those who about viruses, Omicron is simply doing what viruses do: evolve into something that is much more transmittable, yet weaker than than the original.

Omicron Variant: What You Need to Know | CDC




But theres still alot we dont know.
Where did the CDC say masks won't help stop the spread of Omicron?
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Where did the CDC say masks won't help stop the spread of Omicron?

I didnt mean to imply the CDC said that. But its widely known. The problem with masks is cloth masks dont help, and proper masks help ONLY if work and fitted properly. Which most people have no idea how to do that.

Masks prevent spread of omicron — but only if worn properly. Here's how | Here & Now (wbur.org)

A simple cloth mask might not be providing enough protection, she says, because the material is thin. Experts recommend using N95s, FFP2s and KN95s.

Some cloth masks provide a great fit — which means you’re touching and adjusting it less, she says. You can still wear those cloth masks, but Popescu says to double it up with a surgical mask or add in an extra filter.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,345
11,755
136
Mississippi managed to climb to #1 on the deaths per Capita rankings.

NJ/NY were at the top for a long time due to the initial outbreak, but had it fairly under control since.

MS and other Southern states, didn't see that as a cautionary tale, but a dare. How dumb, but unsurprising for the illiterate s-hole confederate states.

What's crazy about AZ is that they have all the benefits of dry warm climate, and UT is near the bottom of the list. That's truly special.
People don't seem to realize that the Confederacy was deeply embedded in that state from it's beginning. Nothing surprising about the behavior of it's people.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
I think nearly all humans get to a point where they are the "last one standing" and no matter who they end up being "allied with" simply to maintain their stubbornness against all logic, will just do it.

This is why, to this day, I refuse to eat Mayo, Ketchup, and open a Facebook Account, for any reason. I will just not do those things. I think it is the same sort of thing with otherwise smart, rational people that get pushed to a point of intractable irrationality.

Nevertheless, they are always a stumbling block to progress, so such traits, if deleterious, will invariably just "disappear" under whatever major pressure that generation is facing, and we'll see that pretty starkly within about 2-3 more generations (so like, 2080ish-2100, if we're still around).

....and it's looking like viruses for this generation, folks!


I'm with you on mayo and Facebook. Facebook is the devil.

Ketchup... Only for a few limited things. Fries, hamburgers... And even then much prefer hot sauce first, then bbq.

No mayo or ketchup? What the hell do you put on your hot dogs?!

Mayo on hot dogs? Umm.. Nah.

Mustard. Mustard, pref brown deli, is the answer.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,345
11,755
136
I'm with you on mayo and Facebook. Facebook is the devil.

Ketchup... Only for a few limited things. Fries, hamburgers... And even then much prefer hot sauce first, then bbq.



Mayo on hot dogs? Umm.. Nah.

Mustard. Mustard, pref brown deli, is the answer.
Idiots in Seattle think a hotdog with cream cheese and sauteed onions is the bomb. Yuch!
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,746
4,271
126
The CDC has verified masks wont stop it
I didnt mean to imply the CDC said that.
Wow, how do you even put those two quotes into the same conversation? Ultimately, I think the issue is that you are thinking in absolutes: things work or they don't work. You should be thinking in terms of likelihood of adverse effects. Some things work pretty darn well. Are they perfect in all possible cases? No, but they still work for the vast majority of cases and thus are worthwhile tools. If perfection is your only possible acceptable choice, then why bother to do anything at all as there is no perfect protection for life?


The problem with masks is cloth masks dont help, and proper masks help ONLY if work and fitted properly. Which most people have no idea how to do that.

Masks prevent spread of omicron — but only if worn properly. Here's how | Here & Now (wbur.org)
Even your link doesn't say what you claim it says. Your link says "A simple cloth mask might not be providing enough protection, she says, because the material is thin." Saying it "might not" provide protection is a far cry from "cloth masks don't help". Yes, cloth masks help with about 30% to 60% reduction in the spread per person wearing it (i.e. if both wear masks you are at least 50% protected and probably more). But, your point is partly correct. Cloth masks are not nearly as good as N95 masks. Luckily, well fitting N95 masks are readily available and have been readily available for well over a year:
 
Last edited:

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,857
2,673
136

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
This is not correct - boosted people are much less likely to contract omicron than non-boosted.
Boosters with the original vaccine recipe will give about 2 months of sterilizing protection against Omicron, so unless you want to force EVERYBODY to get a shot EVERY 2 months, we are mopping with the faucet wide open.

Listen, after listening to MANY lectures from MIT to Stanford, to docs from all over the world, it has become clear to me that we pretty much KNEW already that sterilizing protection against a coronavirus doesn't last much longer than 6 months after natural immunity, although protection against severe disease lasts much longer. Here is a fantastic in depth explanation about viral immunology.

Michel Nussenzweig: "Viral immunology" (9/29/20) - YouTube

It shows how infection with a particular virus will create a range of antibodies, some of which bind perfectly, but some that are just a little different. Your body keeps them around in ever decreasing numbers, but the recipe is there. When a variant arises that is different enough from the original strain so that the perfect match ABs for the original don't fit anymore, chances are there ARE some ABs that DO fit if the variant is not TOO different. Your system can then ramp up production of the ones that fit perfectly, plus again a range of course for potential future variants.

Bottom line is, in the middle of October we already had more than 10 thousand fully vaccinated Americans who had died of Covid anyway; if the vaccine efficacy against death is 99.9% as it seems (a little more maybe), that means we had already had 10 MILLION breakthrough infections. IN OCTOBER, before Omicron.

Just found this from ABC News: "While federal data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is incomplete, only accounting for a subset of states, the analysis found that between April and November, more than 16,700 vaccinated people had died -- the vast majority since the start of the delta variant's surge, earlier this summer." This was BEFORE Omicron.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,099
53,458
136
Boosters with the original vaccine recipe will give about 2 months of sterilizing protection against Omicron, so unless you want to force EVERYBODY to get a shot EVERY 2 months, we are mopping with the faucet wide open.

Listen, after listening to MANY lectures from MIT to Stanford, to docs from all over the world, it has become clear to me that we pretty much KNEW already that sterilizing protection against a coronavirus doesn't last much longer than 6 months after natural immunity, although protection against severe disease lasts much longer. Here is a fantastic in depth explanation about viral immunology.

Michel Nussenzweig: "Viral immunology" (9/29/20) - YouTube

It shows how infection with a particular virus will create a range of antibodies, some of which bind perfectly, but some that are just a little different. Your body keeps them around in ever decreasing numbers, but the recipe is there. When a variant arises that is different enough from the original strain so that the perfect match ABs for the original don't fit anymore, chances are there ARE some ABs that DO fit if the variant is not TOO different. Your system can then ramp up production of the ones that fit perfectly, plus again a range of course for potential future variants.

Sorry, this is not correct - while effectiveness against infection declines after a couple of months, it does not decline to zero as with unvaccinated individuals.

Also, you don't ever need to link me YouTube videos, I won't watch them.

Bottom line is, in the middle of October we already had more than 10 thousand fully vaccinated Americans who had died of Covid anyway; if the vaccine efficacy against death is 99.9% as it seems (a little more maybe), that means we had already had 10 MILLION breakthrough infections. IN OCTOBER, before Omicron.

Just found this from ABC News: "While federal data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is incomplete, only accounting for a subset of states, the analysis found that between April and November, more than 16,700 vaccinated people had died -- the vast majority since the start of the delta variant's surge, earlier this summer." This was BEFORE Omicron.
Probably a bad idea to try and extrapolate that as it is highly likely that breakthrough infections and deaths are strongly correlated because immune compromise through age or other medical condition decreases vaccine effectiveness at the same time it increases COVID mortality risk.

Also, not sure why you think it being before Omicron is relevant. Initial data shows that infection rates from Omicron are high but mortality risk is much, much lower. Who cares if the entire country gets a breakthrough case if nobody dies of it? That's pandemic over.
 

eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,169
5,269
136
And maybe if everyone got a shot every 2 months we can stomp out this virus in half a year. It’s just being prolonged because of stubborn people refusing their first shot and now the people refusing to get a booster
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,746
4,271
126
Bottom line is, in the middle of October we already had more than 10 thousand fully vaccinated Americans who had died of Covid anyway; if the vaccine efficacy against death is 99.9% as it seems (a little more maybe), that means we had already had 10 MILLION breakthrough infections. IN OCTOBER, before Omicron.
That is either the incorrect percentage or incorrect math -- your choice.

If you want to use a number like 99.9%, then that includes prevented symptoms AND then prevented death. Meaning your math was incorrect by assuming it only referred only to preventing deaths. Of that supposed 10 million people who would have caught Covid, only 10,000 got sick enough to die. It does not mean that 10 million people had breakthrough infections.

Or, you can use the correct number, like Moderna has a 81.5% protection from death for those under 65 and 75.5% protection from death for those over 65. Of 10 million exposed people without the vaccine, about 50,000 are dying. For the vaccinated group, that number drops by ~80% down to 10,000. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm0620
 

compcons

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 2004
2,262
1,326
136
Boosters with the original vaccine recipe will give about 2 months of sterilizing protection against Omicron, so unless you want to force EVERYBODY to get a shot EVERY 2 months, we are mopping with the faucet wide open.

Without arguing the details, I for one am totally open to doing ANYTHING that helps keep me and my family safe. It may not be perfect, but to do nothing is asinine. I am not saying you are arguing against it, but this sort of black and white thinking is what keeps people form doing anything.

Masks aren't perfect-don't wear masks at all.
Vaccine isn't perfect - don't get vaccinated.
Omicron is not totally stopped even with a booster - don't get a booster.

Without masks and vaccines, things would be infinitely worse, yet there are millions of people who would do nothing because it doesn'1t fix everything perfectly. Conservative brains are broken.
 

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
Sorry, this is not correct - while effectiveness against infection declines after a couple of months, it does not decline to zero as with unvaccinated individuals.

Also, you don't ever need to link me YouTube videos, I won't watch them.


Probably a bad idea to try and extrapolate that as it is highly likely that breakthrough infections and deaths are strongly correlated because immune compromise through age or other medical condition decreases vaccine effectiveness at the same time it increases COVID mortality risk.

Also, not sure why you think it being before Omicron is relevant. Initial data shows that infection rates from Omicron are high but mortality risk is much, much lower. Who cares if the entire country gets a breakthrough case if nobody dies of it? That's pandemic over.
Those MIT lectures are not your typical Youtube videos my friend. There's a LOT of great information to be gotten which used to take a college degree to attain.

I brought in Omicron because we were talking about with IT the protection against infection with the current vaccines is SO low, that it does not materially prevent further transmission through the population. Of course it is great possible news that it might be less deadly, but the fact remains that the "knights of morality" out there are insinuating that unless virtually everyone gets vaccinated, this will go on forever and that's just not true.

Now as far as breakthrough infections go: the article states that between April and November there were 1.8 million breakthrough infections. These were POSITIVE TESTS! We know that even with Delta, the vaccine protection against severe disease is quite high, so there HAVE to be many more that WERE positive but did not get tested. I don't think 10 million is unreasonable....
 
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