Covidiots thread

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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,184
14,684
136
Are you expecting me to give you their phone numbers? What the hell are you talking about? This is ridiculous. You apparently don't believe it's foolish to walk outside with a mask on walking the dog. You and I live in completely different realities I guess.

Does this mean I go questioning your sincerity?

I went to Stedelijk Gymnasium in Leiden, a quarter of my classmates are doctors! This is hilarious! I've met a couple of them here in LA in the 30 years of playing music in just about any place you can imagine. Traveled the world too, talk regularly with a radiologist in Florida, not an anti-vaxer in ANY way, had MANY discussions with her before I got my shot.

For the doc in my fam and the shitload of nurses, nothing comes close that narrative. I've only heard of fringe cases that would allude to... and this is what you wrote that is the attitude of all the doctors that you know

"To be honest, they are tired of people like YOU who have misused science to spread irrational fear, or make promises that are unrealistic, IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE, all the while calling every other person who doesn't agree with you stupid. "

*who the fuck* have misused science? Following the public health advisories must mean that it is the public institution that is misusing science?
Right? Cant it read any other way?


edit: Just recalled I saw this earlier
 
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eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
1. Expert epidemiologist advising public elected officials on the best course of actions to get a country through it, all factors considered.

2. In your capacity of being you-tube educated perhaps it would suit you to reserve room for the possibility of you getting some of this wrong as well and maybe you dont know whats going on on the other side of the fence.

3. So we have aggressive Trump anti mask anti vaxx retards runnning around on one end of the spectrum and someone running two masks on the other side of the spectrum.
And your conclusion is that your country's problem is the left running in fear. 404 fear not found. I did find one HIGHLY irrational dude trying to push some weird narrative...seemingly cause he has an ego or something.

You are weird.
Listen, I AM completely open to be shown my errors. Not with name-calling though, it's hard to take someone that does that seriously. To call me "you-tube educated" is kinda ridiculous though and you know it. At the same time, it's kind of incredible how you can get SO many of the exact same lectures for free that used to require enrollment in a university. Of course it's not the same, but as a professional musician, there are parallels.

Point number three is the interesting one. Of course the biggest problem is the virus, there's no denying that. Now how we dealt with it, and deal with it going forward is the important part. We have to be realistic and honest about the pros and cons of ALL options.

An INCREDIBLE amount of damage has been done because of the measures, perhaps not to YOU guys in your comfortable lives, but in MANY not so fortunate people's worlds. I'm not even saying it was all in vain, but if we end up with the same amount of deaths per million in every location after a few years, we have to wonder if there would have been a better way. Sweden was RIDICULED for a long time, but right now they have a much better outcome than we do, in just about every metric.

I've had MANY endless discussions with people who categorically said "lockdowns don't work". That's BS of course, because if everyone stayed home the virus would burn out in a month or two.

Now as far as irrationality goes, polls show repeatedly that people's expectations of risk do NOT match reality. Democrats like to think THEY are the correct ones but when it comes to imagined risk actual polls seem to disagree.


"Previous Gallup research has found that the American public has a poor understanding of the true risks associated with the COVID-19 pandemic and that misperceptions vary by political party. In December 2020, through the Franklin Templeton-Gallup Economics of Recovery Study, we asked 5,000 U.S. adults: "As far as you know, what percentage of people who have been infected by the coronavirus needed to be hospitalized?" Only 18% provided the correct answer, which at that time was between 1% and 5%, and a higher percentage of Republicans (26%) gave the correct response than did Democrats (just 10%). "

Now, I'm not Dem OR Repub, so please don't group me with either, but in my experience, Democrats are much more firmly rooted in science and facts; that's why it's so much scarier when THEY become irrational.
 

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
For the doc in my fam and the shitload of nurses, nothing comes close that narrative. I've only heard of fringe cases that would allude to... and this is what you wrote that is the attitude of all the doctors that you know

"To be honest, they are tired of people like YOU who have misused science to spread irrational fear, or make promises that are unrealistic, IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE, all the while calling every other person who doesn't agree with you stupid. "

*who the fuck* have misused science? Following the public health advisories must mean that it is the public institution that is misusing science?
Right? Cant it read any other way?


edit: Just recalled I saw this earlier
Thanks, the article updates the number of 0-17 deaths as 1035.

I'm not sure what you mean by "that narrative". Do you mean kids have a bigger risk of suicide? Would you like to show me proof that fewer than 1035 0-17 have taken their lives in the last 18 months?

I don't believe I said ALL doctors I know, but I specifically meant two I speak with regularly, and some that fly by on my Linkedin. Mind you, those are mostly outside of the US, where vaccinating kids against Covid is not nearly as accepted by the medical establishment OR the people as it is here.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,184
14,684
136
Listen, I AM completely open to be shown my errors. Not with name-calling though, it's hard to take someone that does that seriously. To call me "you-tube educated" is kinda ridiculous though and you know it. At the same time, it's kind of incredible how you can get SO many of the exact same lectures for free that used to require enrollment in a university. Of course it's not the same, but as a professional musician, there are parallels.

Point number three is the interesting one. Of course the biggest problem is the virus, there's no denying that. Now how we dealt with it, and deal with it going forward is the important part. We have to be realistic and honest about the pros and cons of ALL options.

An INCREDIBLE amount of damage has been done because of the measures, perhaps not to YOU guys in your comfortable lives, but in MANY not so fortunate people's worlds. I'm not even saying it was all in vain, but if we end up with the same amount of deaths per million in every location after a few years, we have to wonder if there would have been a better way. Sweden was RIDICULED for a long time, but right now they have a much better outcome than we do, in just about every metric.

I've had MANY endless discussions with people who categorically said "lockdowns don't work". That's BS of course, because if everyone stayed home the virus would burn out in a month or two.

Now as far as irrationality goes, polls show repeatedly that people's expectations of risk do NOT match reality. Democrats like to think THEY are the correct ones but when it comes to imagined risk actual polls seem to disagree.


"Previous Gallup research has found that the American public has a poor understanding of the true risks associated with the COVID-19 pandemic and that misperceptions vary by political party. In December 2020, through the Franklin Templeton-Gallup Economics of Recovery Study, we asked 5,000 U.S. adults: "As far as you know, what percentage of people who have been infected by the coronavirus needed to be hospitalized?" Only 18% provided the correct answer, which at that time was between 1% and 5%, and a higher percentage of Republicans (26%) gave the correct response than did Democrats (just 10%). "

Now, I'm not Dem OR Repub, so please don't group me with either, but in my experience, Democrats are much more firmly rooted in science and facts; that's why it's so much scarier when THEY become irrational.

1. To that I'd say that no, we have not dealt with it yet. We're dealing with it and just staying afloat.
As the literature I've read on the subject states that there is a finite amount of available permutations/mutations for the spike protein to go through that will actually pick up transmissibility, at some point covid19 will have matured. We are also getting new therapeutics, home tests etc. We are *dealing* with it now.
I mean yea, I agree with you as far as we're gonna have to live with it, we're just not here *yet*. Get boosted, get the Omicron booster too when it becomes available, until hospitals can keep up with regular demand.

2. You surely must realize why this bolded text makes no sense right? Unless you're talking about covid25 or something?

3. Why do you say that? What makes you think Sweden is coming out of this better than surrounding countries of a similar makeup?

4. Obv. lockdowns work, that have been demonstrated again and again. When people say they dont work, they're right in the sense that it wont kill it, it will only slow it... and that comes back that one fundamental thing that for some god forsaken reason is so hard to understand.. its about not flooding the gates at the hospitals. And for that, lockdowns work.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,184
14,684
136
Thanks, the article updates the number of 0-17 deaths as 1035.

I'm not sure what you mean by "that narrative". Do you mean kids have a bigger risk of suicide? Would you like to show me proof that fewer than 1035 0-17 have taken their lives in the last 18 months?

I don't believe I said ALL doctors I know, but I specifically meant two I speak with regularly, and some that fly by on my Linkedin. Mind you, those are mostly outside of the US, where vaccinating kids against Covid is not nearly as accepted by the medical establishment OR the people as it is here.

That everyone else besides the docs you know, is misusing science to spread fear. What that not the narrative you were pushing?

Also, how many long-covids do you think the regular ape has in him/her? Again, back to this
I mean for a seasonal covid19 infection, you gonna roll that dice once pr year? You'll be forgetting your own name in no time.

No. Let the virus settle/mature (hopefully Omicron), make Omicron specific vaccines, get therapeutics and self tests available to everyone.
Ill take my shots, pills if I test positive and then the rest of you can go unboosted whatever for all I care. They had their chance .
 
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eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
"misused science to spread irrational fear, or make promises that are unrealistic"
- Like what when and where?
Well, you didn't make any promises, that was about others, but this post fits the first accusation:

"Go suck a covid then, the GQP certainly wants you to, you'll be easier to control that way.

Intelligence
Researchers said those who had been placed on a ventilator while ill showed the most substantial effects. On average, their score dropped 7 IQ points.


Mind that this is for those hard cases, those hard cases that you get 90% protection from with the booster.

Ill take that factor 10 improvement of my odds while I wait for the Omicron specific vaxx thank you.

But you do you Einsten, you do you.

At some point the "dumb" and "idiot" monikers is gonna be on the mark."


The odds of me or someone LIKE me ending up on a ventilator are virtually zero, but in the meantime you're calling me "Einstein", or at least trying to in the most ironic way.

That's exactly how science has been misused: by relatively SMART people to shut up those who they deem too dumb to understand pretty much anything. I mean, COME ON, it's exactly what you've done to me. It's what Fauci does ALL the time, and it has hurt science.

I just watched another exchange between Rand and Fauci. Now believe me, the former is not always right, I KNOW that, but Fauci was straight up lying, or at least, in what HE thought he could get away with, bending the truth. In MY opinion, he bent it too far and got of the truth. Anyway this is what it was about.

Rand was pressuring Fauci into showing him a study that shows significant reinfection rates with bad to deadly outcomes. After a big of back and forth, Fauci said that research shows in South Africa, that previous infection gives, and I quote, "NO PROTECTION" from Omicron. Now, he meant protection from getting reinfected, but made it SOUND like he meant from serious disease, which is clearly not the case. What made it even MORE of a lie is that previous infection DOES give protection for a few months even against reinfection with Omicron, JUST like the vaccine, even though we're still using the recipe for the wild strain.

From what I've learned about all this is that, and YES even an arrogant prick like me will readily admit I don't know it all, the amazing things is that your immune system will make a RANGE of different antibodies when it encounters a new virus. Ones that fit exactly on the specific part of a specific protein, like the RBD on the Spike, but also a range that are ever so slightly different. As the infection progresses, the recipe is "refined" if you will; the more different from the "right" recipe they are, the lower the number of them. As the infection has cleared, and yes, I know there are MANY other parts of the immune response, antibodies start to wane, and in most people germinal centers will keep that recipe for a long time, ready to start producing again when the pathogen is recognized again. This is how boosters increase the titers, right?

Now, sometime later, Omicron comes around. The fact that boosters with the original recipe work in a sterilizing way at all means that the immune response is wide enough to generate even ABs against the mutations present in it! How miraculous really! As far as I understand, for a person to be uninfectable with Corona the AB titers have to be high enough. Research was done on Macaques which showed that after administering enough monoclonal NEUTRALIZING ABs of the right kind, they became impossible to infect.

Now, the word "protection" means SO many things that defining it whenever you're discussing anything important is essential. I believe we knew that immunity from common Corona viruses was sterilizing for 6 months for most. Right? I would love to find another source either confirming or denying that, but I've find two now that clearly show through empirical evidence over many years that yearly infection was the norm. So did we REALLY expect a vaccine, based on ONLY the S protein to be better than that? Or did we know all along, but in order to get as many people the protection you DO get, which is probably a couple of years from serious disease or death, those expected limitations were carefully omitted?

Listen, I'm not looking for enemies, or personal arguments, I'm really not. Quite the contrary, I've argued FOR science and medicine for years against those people all you guys seem to have PTSD from. I just want the truth, or, in the true spirit of science, our best hypothesis or theory. I WANT to read the studies, not just what the powers that be think the conclusion is. In the beginning of the pandemic, three months in, a study that showed robust ABs after 3 months, became articles that spouted that "science" says natural protection lasts ONLY three months. It was in the damn NY Times for goodness' sake!



 

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
That everyone else besides the docs you know, is misusing science to spread fear. What that not the narrative you were pushing?

Also, how many long-covids do you think the regular ape has in him/her? Again, back to this
I mean for a seasonal covid19 infection, you gonna roll that dice once pr year? You'll be forgetting your own name in no time.

No. Let the virus settle/mature (hopefully Omicron), make Omicron specific vaccines, get therapeutics and self tests available to everyone.
Ill take my shots, pills if I test positive and then the rest of you can go unboosted whatever for all I care. They had their chance .
"everyone else besides the docs you know, is misusing science to spread fear."
See, when you say things like that you're not taking this seriously. "Everyone else"? Are u kidding me?

"I mean for a seasonal covid19 infection, you gonna roll that dice once pr year? You'll be forgetting your own name in no time."

AND another perfect example of fear mongering. "In no time"? I'm healthy, active, had my vaccine. I'm not worried. I roll the fucking dice every time I get on the 405 freeway my friend!
 

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
1. To that I'd say that no, we have not dealt with it yet. We're dealing with it and just staying afloat.
As the literature I've read on the subject states that there is a finite amount of available permutations/mutations for the spike protein to go through that will actually pick up transmissibility, at some point covid19 will have matured. We are also getting new therapeutics, home tests etc. We are *dealing* with it now.
I mean yea, I agree with you as far as we're gonna have to live with it, we're just not here *yet*. Get boosted, get the Omicron booster too when it becomes available, until hospitals can keep up with regular demand.

2. You surely must realize why this bolded text makes no sense right? Unless you're talking about covid25 or something?

3. Why do you say that? What makes you think Sweden is coming out of this better than surrounding countries of a similar makeup?

4. Obv. lockdowns work, that have been demonstrated again and again. When people say they dont work, they're right in the sense that it wont kill it, it will only slow it... and that comes back that one fundamental thing that for some god forsaken reason is so hard to understand.. its about not flooding the gates at the hospitals. And for that, lockdowns work.

1. Strange semantics there buddy, but OK. I said how we dealt with it AND are dealing with it. We should have know that Osterholm was right all along, and that we CAN'T stop this thing. Influenza is even worse, but Corona mutates SO readily, we just can't a vaccine right now that has any lasting protection against infection. I think the manufacturers KNEW it, but now we all know.

But guess what, our hospitals here have no problem and haven't for a while. I'm not saying we won't, but so far it seems like Omicron is less serious than Delta and we have a LOT of people with natural immunity and/or vaccines. At the same time, I remember MULTIPLE times when a bad flu epidemic caused beds in the hallways of the hospitals too. Don't get me wrong, I KNOW that Covid is probably 4 times as deadly as a bad flu.

That said, unless we force EVERYONE to get a booster every six months, it's silly to force anyone to get one. Now again, I've recommended 2 friends to get it. I'm not against it AT ALL. I'm against forcing people to take it. And in all honesty, I don't want to take this booster. MAYBE one made for Omicron or newer, but from what I've read, sterilizing protection from a booster now is only 2 months or so. I had my original vaccination 4 months ago or so.

2. I'm not sure which bolded text you mean.

3. Your question is tricky of course with an escape valve built in: "of similar makeup". I would say that Holland is similar enough in its genetic makeup, with a relatively healthy active population and diet, similar rates of obesity. Just looked it up:
Sweden20.60%10,160,169
Slovakia20.50%5,460,721
Netherlands20.40%17,173,099

Of course there are differences in population density and such, but Holland doesn't have any mega cities, or slums, and Stockholm is about the same size as Amsterdam:
Amsterdam/Population
821,752 (2015)


Stockholm/Population
975,551 (Dec 31, 2020)

I've seen a few documentaries about Sweden's approach and I PROMISE YOU, there is a LOT less damage done to its society as compared to Holland.

4. I completely agree with your assessment of lockdowns.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,184
14,684
136
Well, you didn't make any promises, that was about others, but this post fits the first accusation:

"Go suck a covid then, the GQP certainly wants you to, you'll be easier to control that way.

Intelligence
Researchers said those who had been placed on a ventilator while ill showed the most substantial effects. On average, their score dropped 7 IQ points.


Mind that this is for those hard cases, those hard cases that you get 90% protection from with the booster.

Ill take that factor 10 improvement of my odds while I wait for the Omicron specific vaxx thank you.

But you do you Einsten, you do you.

At some point the "dumb" and "idiot" monikers is gonna be on the mark."


The odds of me or someone LIKE me ending up on a ventilator are virtually zero, but in the meantime you're calling me "Einstein", or at least trying to in the most ironic way.

That's exactly how science has been misused: by relatively SMART people to shut up those who they deem too dumb to understand pretty much anything. I mean, COME ON, it's exactly what you've done to me. It's what Fauci does ALL the time, and it has hurt science.

I just watched another exchange between Rand and Fauci. Now believe me, the former is not always right, I KNOW that, but Fauci was straight up lying, or at least, in what HE thought he could get away with, bending the truth. In MY opinion, he bent it too far and got of the truth. Anyway this is what it was about.

Rand was pressuring Fauci into showing him a study that shows significant reinfection rates with bad to deadly outcomes. After a big of back and forth, Fauci said that research shows in South Africa, that previous infection gives, and I quote, "NO PROTECTION" from Omicron. Now, he meant protection from getting reinfected, but made it SOUND like he meant from serious disease, which is clearly not the case. What made it even MORE of a lie is that previous infection DOES give protection for a few months even against reinfection with Omicron, JUST like the vaccine, even though we're still using the recipe for the wild strain.

From what I've learned about all this is that, and YES even an arrogant prick like me will readily admit I don't know it all, the amazing things is that your immune system will make a RANGE of different antibodies when it encounters a new virus. Ones that fit exactly on the specific part of a specific protein, like the RBD on the Spike, but also a range that are ever so slightly different. As the infection progresses, the recipe is "refined" if you will; the more different from the "right" recipe they are, the lower the number of them. As the infection has cleared, and yes, I know there are MANY other parts of the immune response, antibodies start to wane, and in most people germinal centers will keep that recipe for a long time, ready to start producing again when the pathogen is recognized again. This is how boosters increase the titers, right?

Now, sometime later, Omicron comes around. The fact that boosters with the original recipe work in a sterilizing way at all means that the immune response is wide enough to generate even ABs against the mutations present in it! How miraculous really! As far as I understand, for a person to be uninfectable with Corona the AB titers have to be high enough. Research was done on Macaques which showed that after administering enough monoclonal NEUTRALIZING ABs of the right kind, they became impossible to infect.

Now, the word "protection" means SO many things that defining it whenever you're discussing anything important is essential. I believe we knew that immunity from common Corona viruses was sterilizing for 6 months for most. Right? I would love to find another source either confirming or denying that, but I've find two now that clearly show through empirical evidence over many years that yearly infection was the norm. So did we REALLY expect a vaccine, based on ONLY the S protein to be better than that? Or did we know all along, but in order to get as many people the protection you DO get, which is probably a couple of years from serious disease or death, those expected limitations were carefully omitted?

Listen, I'm not looking for enemies, or personal arguments, I'm really not. Quite the contrary, I've argued FOR science and medicine for years against those people all you guys seem to have PTSD from. I just want the truth, or, in the true spirit of science, our best hypothesis or theory. I WANT to read the studies, not just what the powers that be think the conclusion is. In the beginning of the pandemic, three months in, a study that showed robust ABs after 3 months, became articles that spouted that "science" says natural protection lasts ONLY three months. It was in the damn NY Times for goodness' sake!

1. Now dont get it twisted, this is what you wrote

"To be honest, they are tired of people like YOU who have misused science to spread irrational fear, or make promises that are unrealistic, IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE, all the while calling every other person who doesn't agree with you stupid."

And where in that bolded part did I use science to spread fear?
This is small time logic for an engineer like yourself.
Who can use science to spread irrational fear and make promises that are unrealistic? You can ONLY be talking about public health officials and perhaps those that parrot their message.
RIGHT?

2. Nope. I am not calling you stupid, but your spidey sense is correct on the Einstein sarcasm... I am here to inform you that you're not up to refuting general relativity... And neither am I! Thats the whole point.

3. That's a weird territory and weird hill to start climbing? You sure you want to do that? You assuming bad faith on Fauci's part is ... Damn. Why. Would. You? Bad faith have been found on Rand though, in exchanges with Fauci .. like on the debate on gain of function and all that. Have you seen all the shit Rand has spit in the face of Fauci? To appease the Orange Menace? Damn dude.

4. That possibility was not omitted in the literature I consumed at the time. That it was possible, maybe even likely. But dude, you're venturing into conspiracies now ... this is where space lasers and all the other good stuff is.
You know even IF Sweden turns out to have hit the nail on the head, I guess we'll know in a couple of years, you must understand that hindsight is 20/20 right?
Someone promised you that, take two shots and everything would be rainbows? Did Fauci promise you that? I recall the messaging that "getting vaxxed is the path to opening up again".

5. We're defining the truth as live through this thing... Noone is fcking taking you for a ride man. Reading these studies, how do you think your bias confirmation is a contributing factor?
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,184
14,684
136
..The odds of me or someone LIKE me ending up on a ventilator are virtually zero..

Alright, maybe you just get the snotty nose and a 0.7% reduction in grey matter.
Maybe. That is not fear mongering, that is recognizing there is a hell of a lot we dont know yet. Shit you may wanna know before you open up your doors to seasonal covid19.
 

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
1. Now dont get it twisted, this is what you wrote

"To be honest, they are tired of people like YOU who have misused science to spread irrational fear, or make promises that are unrealistic, IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE, all the while calling every other person who doesn't agree with you stupid."

And where in that bolded part did I use science to spread fear?
This is small time logic for an engineer like yourself.
Who can use science to spread irrational fear and make promises that are unrealistic? You can ONLY be talking about public health officials and perhaps those that parrot their message.
RIGHT?

2. Nope. I am not calling you stupid, but your spidey sense is correct on the Einstein sarcasm... I am here to inform you that you're not up to refuting general relativity... And neither am I! Thats the whole point.

3. That's a weird territory and weird hill to start climbing? You sure you want to do that? You assuming bad faith on Fauci's part is ... Damn. Why. Would. You? Bad faith have been found on Rand though, in exchanges with Fauci .. like on the debate on gain of function and all that. Have you seen all the shit Rand has spit in the face of Fauci? To appease the Orange Menace? Damn dude.

4. That possibility was not omitted in the literature I consumed at the time. That it was possible, maybe even likely. But dude, you're venturing into conspiracies now ... this is where space lasers and all the other good stuff is.
You know even IF Sweden turns out to have hit the nail on the head, I guess we'll know in a couple of years, you must understand that hindsight is 20/20 right?
Someone promised you that, take two shots and everything would be rainbows? Did Fauci promise you that? I recall the messaging that "getting vaxxed is the path to opening up again".

5. We're defining the truth as live through this thing... Noone is fcking taking you for a ride man. Reading these studies, how do you think your bias confirmation is a contributing factor?
Well at least we're finally having a relatively civil discussion for a change and I appreciate that.

1. The bold part is not where you do it. It's when you suggest that I would forget my name "soon", unless I get boostered.

2. I'm not up to refuting it, but I can hold a pretty good conversation on it. I've been keeping up with physics lectures for years, love that Susskind and Lewin, no?

3. Please don't group me with the conspiracy nuts, I assure you I'm not one. At the same time, there has been an obvious denial of for instance natural immunity in the US. In Holland you can get the immunity passport QR code with proof of recovery. In the US it doesn't even exist if you have to believe the mainstream. I would call that a conspiracy, whether you like it or not.
Fact is, Fauci lied and it doesn't matter if Rand Paul has an agenda or spreads BS too, which I already told you I find he does sometimes.

4. Not sure what you mean by "rainbows" in an adult discussion, but there were multiple instances in which for instance Biden said take the vaccine, you're NOT gonna die from Covid. Now, I'm not saying HE knew that that was BS, but the doctors knew, and Fauci was never honest about it. Personally, I expected the protection to last longer and I wasn't even convinced that someone in my position should take it. Others I know are starting to feel like they've been sold a bill of goods.... just saying...

Again, the simple fact that natural immunity hasn't counted AT ALL, that nurses who risked their lives for 16 months, that HAD Covid, MUST get vaccinated or lose their jobs is not weird to you? You don't think that the billions of dollars that some stand to make from maximum distribution of shots is a potential corruptive vector? How much time have you spent in the US?

5. I'm VERY aware of confirmation bias and ALWAYS try to actively work against it. I find the CB with some of the most trusted publications quite alarming.
 

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
Alright, maybe you just get the snotty nose and a 0.7% reduction in grey matter.
Maybe. That is not fear mongering, that is recognizing there is a hell of a lot we dont know yet. Shit you may wanna know before you open up your doors to seasonal covid19.
But that's exactly where the RATIONAL part is supposed to kick in. To NOT be afraid of what we don't even know is all that dangerous yet.

I do know three people who dealt with long Covid. Two got over it within 3 months, one has been dealing with it for 18 months, although she's never tested positive for Covid OR Antibodies. I know that that doesn't necessarily mean she DIDN'T have it, but she's in the statistics as Long Covid.

So, you're right, we have to wait to find out what seasonal covid19 looks like. At some point it'll be covid23 or something. If there's a new variant which is dangerous enough, I will get a booster in a second. Again, I'm not against medicine.
 
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eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
The lack of self awareness on your part is hilarious, and par for the course with you insipid clowns. You are displaying all the points you're complaining about but you think everyone else is childish for taking a virus that's killed likely over a million Americans in just 2 years as being more serious than having to deal with a little bit of hassle to go to a chain restaurant. Its so absurd that no one can take you seriously, which is why your posts get the response they do. It shows you both don't have any comprehension for either situation, which is also, sadly, par for the course with people like you. So either you don't think the Holocaust was that bad (a common belief with people making the same arguments you are), or you give no shits that a virus that has accomplished about 1/5 of what the Nazis did with the Holocaust (so far in about 2/5 the time) is inconsequential while trying to claim its everything else that the Nazis did was the bad part. In other words, you don't even seem to understand how grossly stupid your argument is, or you are just straight up saying you're cool with millions of people dying so you can be a dickhead and trample other peoples' freedoms because yours are the only ones that actually matter.

(Those figures are just for America by the way. And that's before we even know what long term damage getting full blown COVID without vaccination will do.)

When you're ready to act like an adult let us know and we'll maybe treat you like one. But your actions speak for themselves. Don't like getting "childish" responses then don't post childish nonsense arguments that are only fit to wipe my ass with if you printed them out on toilet paper.
Wow!

First off, I never called this anything other than a horrible disease, I've never once even insinuated that it wasn't serious, or not a disaster. Your jump from my statement that I see fascist tendencies in society to suggesting that I don't take the Holocaust serious is INSANE.

Fortunately, you give away YOUR ignorance when you say: "than having to deal with a little bit of hassle to go to a chain restaurant"

Perhaps YOUR world didn't get turned upside down, but I assure you MANY people were not as lucky. I've made a good living as a touring musician for years and from one day to the next my ability to work was taken away. Poof! Thanks to Florida and Texas, I was able to make SOME money this year, but I assure you, this is a REAL problem for at least a part of your fellow citizens that FAR outweighs "hassle to go to a restaurant" and for you to be that dense is telling.

Now before you start telling me to pull myself up by my bootstraps, like happened here before, I'm gonna be fine. I've done well with other things, I'm good with computers, I can ALWAYS work. Many of my colleagues are not that lucky. Imagine telling a coal miner that's 55, sorry, you're gonna have to learn another trade. Same kinda thing.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,399
15,220
146
Jesus I hope this dude is getting paid
I dare say it might be interesting to look at the word count and timing between his posts. There’s a couple that are probably over a hundred words and only a few minutes apart. That could suggest multiple people on a single account.

Although the same arrogant tone across each post suggests otherwise.
 

eikelbijter

Senior member
Aug 27, 2009
534
304
136
I dare say it might be interesting to look at the word count and timing between his posts. There’s a couple that are probably over a hundred words and only a few minutes apart. That could suggest multiple people on a single account.

Although the same arrogant tone across each post suggests otherwise.
Just sitting around practicing piano; plenty of time in this pandemic for a musician I'll tell ya! I assure you, it's only me.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,095
53,444
136
When you're vaccinating kids, who have LESS of chance of dying from Covid than of suicide, so often under the false premise that it would protect the older people around them, I would say you're living with irrational fear. We never used to "use" our kids to protect the old ones.

When I see couples walking their dog in our neighborhood, both MASKED, OUTSIDE with nobody within a 100 yards, I think it's fair to say some of us are living in irrational fear. I just walked to the local supermarket here in LA; at least HALF of all people I saw (perhaps 30 or so) were masked or double masked, OUTSIDE. That does NOT follow the data OR the guidelines.
You’re spreading more anti-vax misinformation.

1) vaccinating kids is important for their health as well as the health of others.

2) having just been to LA the idea that 50% of people outdoors are wearing masks is laughable. This is either a super edge case or you’re lying.
 
Reactions: Heartbreaker

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,095
53,444
136
Remember guys, this ‘rational non anti-vaxxer’ thought that people could get ‘boosters’ for their natural immunity by…becoming infected with COVID again.
 
Reactions: eikelbijter

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,752
6,258
136
Again, the simple fact that natural immunity hasn't counted AT ALL, that nurses who risked their lives for 16 months, that HAD Covid, MUST get vaccinated or lose their jobs is not weird to you? You don't think that the billions of dollars that some stand to make from maximum distribution of shots is a potential corruptive vector? How much time have you spent in the US?

It's not weird at all. Only your fixation on it is.

Exactly why would I want to avoid a vaccine if I had been infected?

If I had been infected, I would only be happy to get the extra protection that a vaccine offers. Especially given the mutating nature of COVID and the breakthrough infections.

Natural Immunity is another common talking point for Antivaxxers, but it doesn't hold any water as an excuse to not get vaccinated.

Likewise your appeal to save money by vaccinating less, seems utterly absurd given the prices of vaccine vs the cost of even one hospitalization.

Your shtick is quite tiresome. You claim to be super well informed, then repeat absurd antivaxx talking points.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,466
9,354
136

…The protesters expressed frustration at being refused entrance to the restaurant, suggesting it was “a little hypocritical” of former President Donald Trump to enforce New York City’s vaccine mandate within his businesses instead of pay any fines that might result from rejecting the requirement…

Just when I thought the MAGAtroids couldn’t get any dumber – they actually expect Dingus Khan to help them out with his own money!
 

nOOky

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2004
3,189
2,231
136

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,148
12,663
136
Remember guys, this ‘rational non anti-vaxxer’ thought that people could get ‘boosters’ for their natural immunity by…becoming infected with COVID again.
some days I wish I was as intelligent as eikalbiter.

 
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