CPA and Accounting

[KarmaPolice]

Ive looked through some of the other threads on getting a CPA and being an accountant. I am about to graduate with a degree in accounting(next december). I was just wondering what the guys in accounting thought about there jobs. Do you enjoy it? Is it fullfilling? Does give you time to do what makes you happy?

Just thinking here...At the moment I plan to go into accounting and get my cpa.

 

[Dacalo]

It depends. I have been working as an accountant at banks for past 3 years. The hours are not that bad, but it's not challenging enough for me, so I am taking courses to meet CPA eligibility and planning to join a Big 4 firm later this year.

Public accounting can be exciting or really tiresome depending on how you look at it. Whichever industry you are planning to go, I would recommend you to join a public firm and gain some experience, preferably a Big 4 or mid-sized firm. Once you gain a few years of experience, the door is pretty much open and you can choose your industry. For example, my friend who was a senior at Arthur Andersen is now the controller of a large regional bank.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Public accoutning or industry/corporate accounting?

I'm in public. Spent 5yrs at a Big 4 in audit. I learned a bunch, worked my ass off, got payed decent and learned. The sacrifices involved were big. Lots of late nights, weekends, and unpleasant peers.

Been at a a local firm (a top 100 firm) for 1.5yrs. I like it.

I could never see myslef doing tax. I thoroughly enjoy the client interaction.

Few stay in public long-term. The pay-off happens once you attain the position of manager ata public accounting firm. Salayr goes up, working conditions get much better. Hours are still long.

Best of luck to ya!!!

 

[PoPPeR]

i start at deloitte (audit) in september 2007 so i don't have any real personal experience, just what I've heard from the few hundred people i've spoken to on the subject.

they didn't exactly describe their jobs as fulfilling or enjoyable, and through your first couple of years the salary is not that great (because of hundreds of unpaid overtime hours), but for those who can survive the rewards are great.

i have friends who were completely turned off by their big 4/5 experiences, but one of the biggest advantages that appealed to me was the incredible amount of opportunities it creates, career wise.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I would rahter not work for a big 4 but if its the best way to go i might.

 

[Orsorum]

Go Big 4 for 3 to 5 years, and doors will be opened. Experience with a Big 4 is a sign of quality and, while it won't ensure success elsewhere, will get you noticed.

<--- Staff tax accountant at a Big 4

 

[JS80]

Do Big 4, party your ass off whenever you get a chance, make FRIENDS (i.e. network), be outgoing, be the alpha male. It'll open doors. Work in a big city. DO NOT DO TAX. You will love the company you work for, and your co-workers.

However, you will come to realize it's a fvcking shitting job. You sit in front of your laptop all day ticking and tying excel spreadsheets, signing off work programs (you just sit there and click for like an hour checking off a list), mailing shvt, dealing with retarded overpaid clients, and kissing ass to your senior. Redeeming factor is there aren't backstabbing coworkers like investment banking and the Corporate Amex to buy shvt.

In audit you bring nominal value at best (negative value for most companies); it does not create wealth or generate revenue. In essence it's compliance. When you go private you will realize you actually know nothing about real corporate accounting and you will look like an overpaid douchebag. This is why you need the alpha male personality (so people like you).

 

[Orsorum]

For those of you audit professionals, why are you so adamant that this person not go the tax route?

 

[KarmaPolice]

So your saying the best way to get a great job later is big 4. I go to a small state college. I have a decnet GPA(3.75), but the college name prob wont get me far in those huge corps that prob hire form top tier schools.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
For those of you audit professionals, why are you so adamant that this person not go the tax route?

1) Tax is really boring
2) You fill out tax forms all day
3) There is ALWAYS work. There is a ton of down time in Audit, and you can cheat the system/stay home, etc
4) You get mileage, meals, parties, some client perks
5) You get to experience multiple clients
6) You get to see the entire company's operations
7) You get to shmooze with the client
8) You're not holed up in the office cubicle all day filling tax forms
9) Hotter chicks in Audit
10) Better hours
11) Opens more doors
12) You're not doing tax
13) Your 15 years of tax experience can literally become worthless overnight if congress decides to change to a flat tax or the fair tax.

I can go on.

Originally posted by: KarmaPolice
So your saying the best way to get a great job later is big 4. I go to a small state college. I have a decnet GPA(3.75), but the college name prob wont get me far in those huge corps that prob hire form top tier schools.

lol...it's freaking accounting, not rocket science. most of the ppl at public accounting firms went to state schools. and once you make a manager title at such firms, corporations won't care what podunk college you went to.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Orsorum
For those of you audit professionals, why are you so adamant that this person not go the tax route?

1) Tax is really boring
2) You fill out tax forms all day
3) There is ALWAYS work. There is a ton of down time in Audit, and you can cheat the system/stay home, etc
4) You get mileage, meals, parties, some client perks
5) You get to experience multiple clients
6) You get to see the entire company's operations
7) You get to shmooze with the client
8) You're not holed up in the office cubicle all day filling tax forms
9) Hotter chicks in Audit
10) Better hours
11) Opens more doors
12) You're not doing tax
13) Your 15 years of tax experience can literally become worthless overnight if congress decides to change to a flat tax or the fair tax.

I can go on.

1) Tax is really boring. Audit work is excruciatingly mind-numbing to most tax professionals, that's why we chose tax work.
2) You fill out tax forms all day. No we don't.
3) There is ALWAYS work. There is a ton of down time in Audit, and you can cheat the system/stay home, etc. I can work from home quite often, if I wish, because my work is portable and I do all my research online. I'm at a client site two days a week and even in that I have flexibility. I prefer consistent work, because it means that I know I'll be at work around 9AM and home by 6PM, 99% of the year, as opposed to 3 months or 6 months of hell for Audit folk.
4) You get mileage, meals, parties, some client perks. So do we.
5) You get to experience multiple clients. So do we. I have four major clients right now and spent time each week on projects for them.
6) You get to see the entire company's operations. That is the one major downside of tax; it is possible to avoid any level of depth with respect to your clients' operations. However, GOOD tax accountants learn their clients' operations because knowing how their business operates at a functional level helps you recognize opportunities to sell work.
7) You get to shmooze with the client. So do we.
8) You're not holed up in the office cubicle all day filling tax forms. Neither am I.
9) Hotter chicks in Audit. True.
10) Better hours. Not true.
11) Opens more doors. Some truth to this, though I don't mind. I chose tax for many reasons, but the sheer breadth of career openings afterward wasn't one of them. Tax experience at a Big 4 opens up a LOT of doors, but not as many as audit.
12) You're not doing tax. I see that as a downside.
13) Your 15 years of tax experience can literally become worthless overnight if congress decides to change to a flat tax or the fair tax. Not true. First, Congress won't change to a flat tax. Second, there are multiple layers of taxation for any business. International, federal, state, and local, and they won't all switch to a flat tax or sales tax overnight. Even if they do, I'll just go back to law school.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Orsorum
For those of you audit professionals, why are you so adamant that this person not go the tax route?

1) Tax is really boring
2) You fill out tax forms all day
3) There is ALWAYS work. There is a ton of down time in Audit, and you can cheat the system/stay home, etc
4) You get mileage, meals, parties, some client perks
5) You get to experience multiple clients
6) You get to see the entire company's operations
7) You get to shmooze with the client
8) You're not holed up in the office cubicle all day filling tax forms
9) Hotter chicks in Audit
10) Better hours
11) Opens more doors
12) You're not doing tax
13) Your 15 years of tax experience can literally become worthless overnight if congress decides to change to a flat tax or the fair tax.

I can go on.

1) Tax is really boring. Audit work is excruciatingly mind-numbing to most tax professionals, that's why we chose tax work.
2) You fill out tax forms all day. No we don't.
3) There is ALWAYS work. There is a ton of down time in Audit, and you can cheat the system/stay home, etc. I can work from home quite often, if I wish, because my work is portable and I do all my research online. I'm at a client site two days a week and even in that I have flexibility. I prefer consistent work, because it means that I know I'll be at work around 9AM and home by 6PM, 99% of the year, as opposed to 3 months or 6 months of hell for Audit folk.
4) You get mileage, meals, parties, some client perks. So do we.
5) You get to experience multiple clients. So do we. I have four major clients right now and spent time each week on projects for them.
6) You get to see the entire company's operations. That is the one major downside of tax; it is possible to avoid any level of depth with respect to your clients' operations. However, GOOD tax accountants learn their clients' operations because knowing how their business operates at a functional level helps you recognize opportunities to sell work.
7) You get to shmooze with the client. So do we.
8) You're not holed up in the office cubicle all day filling tax forms. Neither am I.
9) Hotter chicks in Audit. True.
10) Better hours. Not true.
11) Opens more doors. Some truth to this, though I don't mind. I chose tax for many reasons, but the sheer breadth of career openings afterward wasn't one of them. Tax experience at a Big 4 opens up a LOT of doors, but not as many as audit.
12) You're not doing tax. I see that as a downside.
13) Your 15 years of tax experience can literally become worthless overnight if congress decides to change to a flat tax or the fair tax. Not true. First, Congress won't change to a flat tax. Second, there are multiple layers of taxation for any business. International, federal, state, and local, and they won't all switch to a flat tax or sales tax overnight. Even if they do, I'll just go back to law school.

as you can see, i am obviously very unbiased against tax. but seriously, at my old firm the tax guys that started the same year as me worked 80 hours a week, never left the office and never interacted with the client in person. They quit after 1 year.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

You can do smaller firms that don't specialize as much, say 20-50 employees. Folks where I was do a bit of everything. You are basically assigned the client, not the work. So if there is an audit and tax return, you do both.

Sure it's more to learn/remember than specializing in one area, but not a big deal.

They're both depressing as hell though. With Sarbanes-Oxley you look at more fraud type stuff now, but like said above, it's just checking off program stuff, nothing investigative like about it. With tax you'll see returns of people making 20x more than you do and paying half as much tax you do.

My suggestion would be join a smaller place where you can do both audit and tax. Get your CPA. After 4 or 5 years apply for a Criminal Investigation Enforcement job with the IRS. Local law enforcement employs criminal justice people. People who know how to do things like fingerprint analysis, evidence collection, etc. They aren't trained to follow money trails, drug purchases and sales, etc.

And with the IRS you aren't working to make someone else rich like you do at a corporation. And you may actually be making a difference for people.

 

[Triforceofcourage]

I have been working as a Staff Accountant for a corporation for about a year and a half. I like it but the work does get boring sometimes. I mainly deal with the financial statements doing analysis on the various accounts. I will be sitting for the CPA exam in about a month or two so I don't know about that yet.

There is good money to be made in this field if you know what you are doing. My friends at the big 4 hate their jobs because they are being worked to death. However, they do have an opportunity to make more money than me so there is a trade off there.

I prefer my nine to five job personally. You could never get me to work at the big 4 ever. They work you to death.

Welcome to the accounting fold

 

[PoPPeR]

Originally posted by: Orsorum
For those of you audit professionals, why are you so adamant that this person not go the tax route?

it wasn't so much that i didn't want to go the tax route, but that the audit route seemed to have some more benefits. In fact I distinctly remember inquiring as to whether tax was easier to get into because of the lower # of people that seem to be interested in it, but alas I was told no it's not easier.

and karmapolice: you don't need to go to a top tier school. You need a nice GPA (a 3.75 is very nice, i don't even think you want anything higher as I've known quite a few people higher than that who had very little success getting their initial interview despite having adequate extracurriculars).

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Originally posted by: KarmaPolice
So your saying the best way to get a great job later is big 4. I go to a small state college. I have a decnet GPA(3.75), but the college name prob wont get me far in those huge corps that prob hire form top tier schools.

Get your resume into the Big 4. Problem is they are done hiring for the Spring '07 grads.

Big cities have more spots available so you have a much better chance of getting a job ata big 4. Easy, tell them you have friends/family in particular city and you would like to live there once you graduate. If you are just looking for a job in any random city the Big 4 know you will most likely transfer/quit once you get homesick and want to move home. if they know you have family in town you are leass likely to move away and quit the job. Retention of public accountants is huge!!!

 

[dquan97]

<- gov't auditor taking the CPA test this year, then going with Big 4

Anyone using Becker to prepare for the test?

 

[BCYL]

I have a few close friends who are in tax/audit, and they ALL HATE their jobs... sure the pay is nice, but the work never ends and its so boring (according to them)... all of them are looking to get out and do other stuff... All of them are in the Big 4 BTW...

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: dquan97
<- gov't auditor taking the CPA test this year, then going with Big 4

Anyone using Becker to prepare for the test?

Yes. Do the lectures, then drill down on the multiple choice. Do them over and over.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: BCYL
I have a few close friends who are in tax/audit, and they ALL HATE their jobs... sure the pay is nice, but the work never ends and its so boring (according to them)... all of them are looking to get out and do other stuff... All of them are in the Big 4 BTW...

They probably chose the wrong career path.

The work is definitely difficult, but I'm glad that it never ends. It keeps me busy and stimulated, and that is the most I could ask for in a corporate job, I think.

 

[Schadenfroh]

This is the OP in a few years:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMOmB1q8W4Y

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Originally posted by: BCYL
I have a few close friends who are in tax/audit, and they ALL HATE their jobs... sure the pay is nice, but the work never ends and its so boring (according to them)... all of them are looking to get out and do other stuff... All of them are in the Big 4 BTW...

True, it's challenging and the hours are long. The pay-off is there if you stick with it and make manager. The longer you stay at a firm the more valuable you become. This really is like an apprenticeship. Once the skills are learned everyone and anyone will hire you just because you have Big 4 on your resume.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Originally posted by: PoPPeR

Originally posted by: Orsorum
For those of you audit professionals, why are you so adamant that this person not go the tax route?

it wasn't so much that i didn't want to go the tax route, but that the audit route seemed to have some more benefits. In fact I distinctly remember inquiring as to whether tax was easier to get into because of the lower # of people that seem to be interested in it, but alas I was told no it's not easier.

and karmapolice: you don't need to go to a top tier school. You need a nice GPA (a 3.75 is very nice, i don't even think you want anything higher as I've known quite a few people higher than that who had very little success getting their initial interview despite having adequate extracurriculars).

I want to live in a city so that works for me. As for where..I would prefer the northeast or mid atlantic. I'll pass on the rest.

I would REALLY love to work in another country...say Japan. If only I knew Japanese. I lived there fore 5 years and spent a semester abroad there. The school i went to had many great recruiters come to it....If you spoke fluent Japanese and English, and knew 2+2=4 they would give you a internship before you could ask for a name.

 

[PoPPeR]

if you are very interested in working in another country then big 4 seems to be the way to go. I speak fluent mandarin and was offered a position by 3 out of the 4, including one firm who wanted me to commit to a position in China after first spending 2 years becoming a US GAAP specialist.

Japan might be a little different because they obviously aren't experiencing the same type of growth and demand that China is, but with so many japanese companies doing business in the US, i'm sure that it's still not difficult whatsoever

 

[KarmaPolice]

Originally posted by: PoPPeR
if you are very interested in working in another country then big 4 seems to be the way to go. I speak fluent mandarin and was offered a position by 3 out of the 4, including one firm who wanted me to commit to a position in China after first spending 2 years becoming a US GAAP specialist.

Japan might be a little different because they obviously aren't experiencing the same type of growth and demand that China is, but with so many japanese companies doing business in the US, i'm sure that it's still not difficult whatsoever

Deff doable....I think i would be much happier working 70 hours a week if i lived in another country. The language thing gets you easy tho.