cpu temperature problem

[the_metal]

I build computers as part of my business. Quite a few years ago, I was delivering a computer in January (so up to 20C difference in temp between indoors/outdoors). It was about a 45-minute drive, and when I set up the computer, it was totally unstable for about an hour after first switching it on (bear in mind, it worked flawlessly in my home). After that approximate-hour had passed, it was 100% stable (and has been ever since). I think it is pretty likely that the sudden changes in temperature in the case (taking it into the cold and then back into a warm, home environment) caused enough condensation to cause problems. Nowadays I wrap a computer in plastic before taking it to the customer. I haven't seen the problem since (about 80 builds later). If you have access to a de-humidifier it may be worth running it in the room that the computer is in, at least to begin with and see whether it makes any difference. I think you ought to be looking for an unusual solution since you've covered most of the usual points. Issues where a computer is unstable during warm-up are usually due to dodgy capacitors and/or PSU.

I never thought about it, that is indeed a good idea. I'll try it for sure later. It's winter down here and the temperature inside is like 18C and I never took the pc outside.

How long have you used this computer for? Have you used it regularly and then this problem occurred out of the blue? Did it just suddenly happen and has been this way ever since, or did it get steadily worse?

It's been 3 years. I used this computer without any problem and suddenly this problem happened. This problem has been this way since its first appearance.

Instead of booting Windows, can you boot into memtest86+ (http://www.memtest.org/) from CD from cold and see how works from there?

I did a memtest86 from a CD about 2 weeks ago. It passed all exams and found no problems with RAM.

Do you think if i overclock my cpu its idle temperature will went up, cause maybe that will prevent this problem temporarily.

Thanks so much for your help.

 

[mikeymikec]

My memtest idea wasn't so much about testing RAM, but to see whether the computer is always unstable from cold regardless of OS.

I don't like the idea of overclocking to avoid a 'cold' problem. It might be a dodgy board connection somewhere that only acts up when cold.

 

[the_metal]

My memtest idea wasn't so much about testing RAM, but to see whether the computer is always unstable from cold regardless of OS.

That's right, i tried with both windows 7 and windows xp and i even tried a new hdd and started to install windows 7 into that new hdd but the problem appeared and i couldn't continue the setup.
Well now to think about it, am amazed how did memtest finish the test without hanging so i'll repeat the test right now and i'll tell you right away when either the test is done or gets interrupted by the problem.

I don't like the idea of overclocking to avoid a 'cold' problem. It might be a dodgy board connection somewhere that only acts up when cold.

I totally agree with you but what other choice do i have. I'm forced to use prime95 torture test just to prevent the pc from hanging on me.

If you want me to proceed with memtest right now, please tell.
Thank you.

 

[mikeymikec]

Btw, to test a PC 'from cold', I normally leave it overnight, unplugged from the mains.

 

[the_metal]

Btw, to test a PC 'from cold', I normally leave it overnight, unplugged from the mains.

ok, i'll do it overnight after a complete cold.

 

[the_metal]

I've tested the PC from cold using Memtest and there was no problem at all and the pc didn't hang at all while testing. I have another idea, what if i try using a Live CD and see if the PC will freeze or not ?
Do you guys think this try is worth it ?
again thanks for all the help I've got from you guys, i really appreciate it.

 

[mikeymikec]

I've tested the PC from cold using Memtest and there was no problem at all and the pc didn't hang at all while testing. I have another idea, what if i try using a Live CD and see if the PC will freeze or not ?
Do you guys think this try is worth it ?
again thanks for all the help I've got from you guys, i really appreciate it.

I would possibly consider booting again from cold (mains unplugged) into Windows and see what happens, just to ensure that you've got a definite, consistent test case to work with.

A Live CD isn't a bad idea, but one problem with it is that such an environment might not be that demanding on the hardware or it might make it less easy for you to be demanding on the hardware. Another possibility is that there might be a weird bug on the live CD (like an otherwise OK driver except with your revision of a particular piece of hardware).

After running memtest for a while (say 30-60 minutes), it would be interesting to check the core temp immediately after the test. I wouldn't except memtest to push the CPU to its limits, though also I'd doubt that memtest has any interest in throttling the CPU, I would guess that the CPU goes to its full clock speed.

Another possibility I might consider is booting into Windows safe mode for a while.

 

[coffeejunkee]

I really did that too. I swapped RAM, GPU, PSU, HDD. Unfortunately nothing prevented this problem to occur.
Do you have any idea that will make my cpu min. temperature to be 40C instead of 30C which makes it freeze.

That would mean the cpu or the motherboard is the cause. Also, what Vectronic in post 4 said about expanding/contracting makes sense.

 

[Ber_MM]

A power surge or even ESD can cause such otherwise inexplicable issues. What about noise (radio or line) from other appliances that run when the PC is off or cool (maybe a space heater that runs when the PC isn't heating the room)?

 

[the_metal]

That would mean the cpu or the motherboard is the cause. Also, what Vectronic in post 4 said about expanding/contracting makes sense.

Yeah i agree with you about it must be related to cpu or motherboard. I think i'll go to a shop and test all my hardware with a different motherboard and then a different cpu. This should be the last solution and after that if we couldn't know for sure which part is failing. Then maybe i should just dump this system and get a new one.

 

[the_metal]

A power surge or even ESD can cause such otherwise inexplicable issues. What about noise (radio or line) from other appliances that run when the PC is off or cool (maybe a space heater that runs when the PC isn't heating the room)?

There is no other appliances near the pc. Could you please explain more about power surge or ESD ?
I used to have 9400gt but it died 4 months ago and i bought ati6670 but it never occured to me that it could been a power surge that killed it.

 

[the_metal]

I would possibly consider booting again from cold (mains unplugged) into Windows and see what happens, just to ensure that you've got a definite, consistent test case to work with.

A Live CD isn't a bad idea, but one problem with it is that such an environment might not be that demanding on the hardware or it might make it less easy for you to be demanding on the hardware. Another possibility is that there might be a weird bug on the live CD (like an otherwise OK driver except with your revision of a particular piece of hardware).

After running memtest for a while (say 30-60 minutes), it would be interesting to check the core temp immediately after the test. I wouldn't except memtest to push the CPU to its limits, though also I'd doubt that memtest has any interest in throttling the CPU, I would guess that the CPU goes to its full clock speed.

Another possibility I might consider is booting into Windows safe mode for a while.

Booting from cold to windows always makes this problem appear and if it helps, i can shoot a video and upload it to youtube.
A live CD won't be demanding but it could help to see if it works while the cpu temp is low.
I'll try memtest again and i'll tell you what is the cpu temp after 60 minutes.
Booting to windows safe mode also makes this problem appear.

 

[Ber_MM]

Surges as in the dips and spikes in the power coming from the wall outlet. An uninterruptible power supply (UPS, an external battery backup) with automatic voltage regulation is the best protection against such. Usually you will notice such disruptions through your lighting, but smaller less detectable ones can do harm if they happen often enough. Aside from the power company, this can be caused by poor wiring or cheap/poor condition/old appliances. I have a travel trailer that requires a UPS for such reasons.

ElectroStatic Discharge is any form of static, but usually the difference in the electrical charge on your body versus the charge present on the electronics being worked on. Your case is grounded and thus shields the inner components, unless it is open and being worked on. To prevent this everyone should use a special wrist strap that wires them to the PC case when working inside it. These can be found at RadioShack and similar stores.

Similar to how a windshield ding can randomly grow slowly or suddenly to many times it's size, these power issues can cause odd issues either immediately or some time after the damage originally occurred.

There is no other appliances near the pc. Could you please explain more about power surge or ESD ?
I used to have 9400gt but it died 4 months ago and i bought ati6670 but it never occured to me that it could been a power surge that killed it.

 

[mikeymikec]

Booting from cold to windows always makes this problem appear and if it helps

Except it didn't when running memtest, you said.

Admittedly memtest won't push modern PC hardware particularly when starting up, it's done in no time at all, then I'd guess that maybe a modern CPU would be pushed for half its potential, maybe less. I've seen memtest run on a lot of PCs and it doesn't seem to be CPU bound.

I think the board could well be at fault, but I would pursue all avenues before deciding to give up on it.

A cheaper option than a UPS would be a circuit breaker which plugs into the mains socket then your PC is plugged into the breaker. They're very sensitive and IIRC hardly cost anything at all. It may help answer the question of mains stability.

 

[the_metal]

Surges as in the dips and spikes in the power coming from the wall outlet. An uninterruptible power supply (UPS, an external battery backup) with automatic voltage regulation is the best protection against such. Usually you will notice such disruptions through your lighting, but smaller less detectable ones can do harm if they happen often enough. Aside from the power company, this can be caused by poor wiring or cheap/poor condition/old appliances. I have a travel trailer that requires a UPS for such reasons.

ElectroStatic Discharge is any form of static, but usually the difference in the electrical charge on your body versus the charge present on the electronics being worked on. Your case is grounded and thus shields the inner components, unless it is open and being worked on. To prevent this everyone should use a special wrist strap that wires them to the PC case when working inside it. These can be found at RadioShack and similar stores.

Similar to how a windshield ding can randomly grow slowly or suddenly to many times it's size, these power issues can cause odd issues either immediately or some time after the damage originally occurred.

Thanks for the advice. Maybe i should use a ups to prevent such strikes from harming my pc.

 

[the_metal]

Except it didn't when running memtest, you said.

Admittedly memtest won't push modern PC hardware particularly when starting up, it's done in no time at all, then I'd guess that maybe a modern CPU would be pushed for half its potential, maybe less. I've seen memtest run on a lot of PCs and it doesn't seem to be CPU bound.

I think the board could well be at fault, but I would pursue all avenues before deciding to give up on it.

A cheaper option than a UPS would be a circuit breaker which plugs into the mains socket then your PC is plugged into the breaker. They're very sensitive and IIRC hardly cost anything at all. It may help answer the question of mains stability.

Thanks Mike. Maybe i'll try a circuit breaker. About the motherboard, is there an analysis method to be sure its faulty. Thanks man.

 

[mikeymikec]

Thanks Mike. Maybe i'll try a circuit breaker. About the motherboard, is there an analysis method to be sure its faulty. Thanks man.

The method I use is 'eliminate all the other possibilities'.

I wonder if there is a version of Prime95 that runs off a boot CD.

 

[the_metal]

The method I use is 'eliminate all the other possibilities'.

I wonder if there is a version of Prime95 that runs off a boot CD.

I think "Ultimate Boot CD" is able to run prime test on Dos.

 

[Lazlo Panaflex]

Hi the_metal,
I've been reading through this thread, and I'd say at this point just dump that board and get something better, like a cheap sandy bridge/IB/AMD combo. You could re-use your other parts and sell the CPU/memory to keep costs down. The performance increase would be quite large, and you could actually enjoy your system. IMO, your time is valuable, don't continue wasting it on that POS

 

[the_metal]

Hi the_metal,
I've been reading through this thread, and I'd say at this point just dump that board and get something better, like a cheap sandy bridge/IB/AMD combo. You could re-use your other parts and sell the CPU/memory to keep costs down. The performance increase would be quite large, and you could actually enjoy your system. IMO, your time is valuable, don't continue wasting it on that POS

Thanks man, I might actually do that. Thanks for the tip:thumbsup:

 

[Lazlo Panaflex]

cool, np

 

[john3850]

Wild guess remove the cpu and make sure all of the contacts look good on the socket.

 

[the_metal]

Wild guess remove the cpu and make sure all of the contacts look good on the socket.

Alright i'll do that for sure as soon as i get home.

 

[the_metal]

Sorry for the late reply. I've checked the cpu contacts and nothing suspicious there.