CPU X-mas Upgrade

[thestbar]

So as you understand my point is simple. I want to upgrade my old friend Phenom II x6 1090T and go into something new.
First of all, I can't wait more (I want to buy into the next 2 weeks).
Also, my budget is limited because RAM chips are way too expensive and I really want to buy 16GB of them.

So I have a very good pain in the brain. Competitiveness is back, AMD is no crap but for sure Coffee-Lake is the king in blind performance.

My options are these:

-Ryzen 7 1700 /w B350 ~ 350 Euro
-i5 8600K /w Z370 ~ 430 Euro (Included 40$ air-cooler)
-i7 8700 (non-K) /wZ370 ~ 450 Euro
-i7 8700K /wZ370 ~ 550 Euro (Included 40$ air-cooler)

As you understand the two i7's aren't such viable choices and they will get me definitely out of budget, that's why my main 2 choices will be either the R7 1700 or the i5 8600K.
Also, there are two more budget options that I have in mind but they are in a worse position:
-Ryzen 5 1600 /wB350 ~ 270 Euro
-i5 8400 (non-K) /wZ370 ~ 310 Euro

So these are the offers and you should add to these number at least 150 more Euro for RAM. I can spend like 500 Euro so as you can see R7 1700 might be my sweetspot.

Anyway, I game on a 1080p@60Hz monitor with a RX480 8GB.

Gaming is one of the stuff I do a lot (like 50% of stuff), but I am a programmer and I use lots of Microsoft Visual Studio, Android Studio (included Android Emulators), Eclipse, Game Development (more on Unity). And there are times that I use Virtual Machines especially when I want to do stuff in Linux.

So in every approach my current Desktop home machine was old enough to do such things. So this is the reason that I want to upgrade.

I just need to know what will be the best bang for the buck.

Thank you for your time and I hope you all have a nice and warm holiday season!

 

[ao_ika_red]

I'll vote for 1600 and then you'll have more room to buy faster memory and better hsf.

 

[plopke]

UPDATE nevermind you said including mobo

I have myself a 1700(spire-cooled)-RX470(quiet)-B350 no-oc setup, it is a nice powerful and quiet system but the 1700 falls in a very specific category of multi-threaded workloads. I would have gotten the 1600 but could not wait at that time for the Ryzen 5 chips.

So like the others, I would not dismiss the 1600 or the 8400 for that matter if you trying to get as much performance/euro. Your workloads need to be very specific and i do not see games suddenly all favouring 16 threads.

 

[UsandThem]

I say either the 1600 or the i5-8400.

 

[Adawy]

Judging by your current hardware, your upgrade cycle isn't short. My advice is to go with the R7 1700 as it's the most efficient 8 Core 16 thread processor on the market and it'll last longer for your productivity work, not to mention the great price and value. Enjoy your upgrade and happy holidays.

 

[thestbar]

I like the value that R5 1600 and i5 8400 has but in both cases I feel that R7 1700 is a little bit better. Whatever I think I can handle the fact I have 130 fps instead of 145 for these 10 more threads. If were cheaper 8th gen mobos then the things would be more clear. This i5 8400 would be the real price/perf king. But now I feel that price/perf king is R7 1700.
Also, it fits the budget perfect and the only thing is that will 8600K be worth instead of 1700 for my job? Is it wise to spend 80 more Euro for 8600K chip or 100 more for the i7 non-K chip ?

 

[UsandThem]

This i5 8400 would be the real price/perf king. But now I feel that price/perf king is R7 1700.
Also, it fits the budget perfect and the only thing is that will 8600K be worth instead of 1700 for my job? Is it wise to spend 80 more Euro for 8600K chip or 100 more for the i7 non-K chip ?

It sounds like you need to read some reviews, and decide what CPU works best for your use and budget. The reviews show the performance difference between every CPU you just mentioned.

You stated you wanted to stay under 500 Euro, but now are ok going well over that? It sounds like you know all your options and choices, so now you just need to decide for yourself.

 

[NTMBK]

Are you likely to be bringing across old Virtual Machines to your new machine? Because migrating VMs between AMD and Intel CPUs can sometimes be tricky, because AMD and Intel use different virtualization extensions. Best bet for compatibility is to stick with one vendor (in your case, AMD).

 

[thestbar]

It sounds like you need to read some reviews, and decide what CPU works best for your use and budget. The reviews show the performance difference between every CPU you just mentioned.

You stated you wanted to stay under 500 Euro, but now are ok going well over that? It sounds like you know all your options and choices, so now you just need to decide for yourself.

Yes I would like to spend 500 Euro at most. So in theory the only machines that stay into this budget are i5 8400 R5 1600 and R7 1700 (and maybe i5 8600K) so as I understand Intel is by far better on gaming but will it be better than R7 on virtualization ?

The main complains about Intel's 8th gen platform that I have are:
I feel stupid to buy Z370 motherboard with locked CPU and most of all there is no stock. I will have to wait almost one month to get it. And the fact is that right now I have no computer.

I just need to see other people's opinions. What would you do if you were me. I need some answers from people who do same things as I do on their PCs who have more knowledge about hardware stuff.

Are you likely to be bringing across old Virtual Machines to your new machine? Because migrating VMs between AMD and Intel CPUs can sometimes be tricky, because AMD and Intel use different virtualization extensions. Best bet for compatibility is to stick with one vendor (in your case, AMD).

No, I won't migrate VMs to the new machine. Also especially for Android Emulator on Android Studio there is better compatibility with Intel processors (Intel HAXM), think about it like newer API's emulators come first for Intel systems. Also with Intel HAXM it is supposed that emulators run faster and smoother (Emulators are pain in the butt for android development because they still suck a bit), but I say "supposed" because it was obvious that on Intel systems it should run smoother and faster because the best thing AMD had to offer till Ryzen were the FX series which really suck in everything. So I want to know if the performance is good on Android Emulators with Ryzen.

Thanks for your time, fellas!

 

[Insert_Nickname]

It really depends on what you value most. The 1700 is king for productivity, but its relatively low frequency does hold it back a bit for gaming. But its not really relevant with a 60Hz monitor. Speaking as a 1700 user here.

If you're looking for something cheap, the 1600 definitely gets my vote, but I could see a case here for the 1600X (4.0GHz all core boost/4.1GHz XFR on two cores) if you want a bit more oomph for gaming. Both will do fine.

 

[UsandThem]

I just need to see other people's opinions. What would you do if you were me. I need some answers from people who do same things as I do on their PCs who have more knowledge about hardware stuff.

Personally, I would read some reviews and look at some charts. You researched enough to know your choices, several people have give you their opinion, but you keep moving the goal posts.

https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/F...-visual-studio-2017?forum=visualstudiogeneral

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/765911-how-good-are-ryzen-cpus-for-virtual-machines/

I can link the various reviews for gaming results, but there's no debate on which company wins here (hint: It's Intel).

So I will once again suggest either the AMD 1600 or Intel i5-8400 based on your original budget of 500 Euro (including RAM). And honestly, who cares if you are running a locked CPU on a Z370 motherboard? If it it gives you the "best bang for the buck" performance that you want, I don't see the big deal. If you feel so guilty about that aspect, you can always buy a more expensive unlocked CPU in the future.

If you want to keep increasing your budget from what you originally stated, then go with a AMD 1700 or 1700x, or a i7-8700. Once again, the Intel chip will be the best gaming CPU, but since you are only gaming at 1080p, just about any decent CPU from the last 7 years will be able to game at that resolution.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I'm surprised you can't wait more. There's a big release from AMD in Feb/Mar. Unless the Ryzen prices are just too good to pass up?

 

[thestbar]

I'm surprised you can't wait more. There's a big release from AMD in Feb/Mar. Unless the Ryzen prices are just too good to pass up?

Don't get hyped brother. 2018 will be like 2017. Ryzen 2 (Only the 7 series) comes in March. Availability sucks at least for 2 months (then 5 and 3 series come out) so the prices are high as hell in countries like Greece.

If I wait like 6 months to buy, then people will say me why won't you wait 3 more months when 9th gen Intel CPUs come out. That's all. Life is a bitch

2 months after they released Coffee Lake CPUs still needs almost 1 month to ship and they are over-priced. Also, Ryzen prices are all 50-80 Euro below MSRP.

And RAM chips' prices are getting higher and higher..

Today I sold my old Mobo and DDR3 RAM so officially I have no PC at home.

PS.: Just a fact, I sold my old RAM (2x8 GB DDR3 Hyperx Savage 1866MHz) for 90 Euro. I bought it 77 Euro May 2016. This is ridiculous.

 

[DrMrLordX]

There may not be any significant desktop releases for over a year after March 2018. Though availability in Greece may not be very good.

In which case, I would say just get the 8700k and ride it out for awhile. That'll last a long time.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I like the value that R5 1600 and i5 8400 has but in both cases I feel that R7 1700 is a little bit better. Whatever I think I can handle the fact I have 130 fps instead of 145 for these 10 more threads. If were cheaper 8th gen mobos then the things would be more clear. This i5 8400 would be the real price/perf king. But now I feel that price/perf king is R7 1700.
Also, it fits the budget perfect and the only thing is that will 8600K be worth instead of 1700 for my job? Is it wise to spend 80 more Euro for 8600K chip or 100 more for the i7 non-K chip ?

Sounds like you have made up your mind alte

Personally, I would read some reviews and look at some charts. You researched enough to know your choices, several people have give you their opinion, but you keep moving the goal posts.

https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/F...-visual-studio-2017?forum=visualstudiogeneral

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/765911-how-good-are-ryzen-cpus-for-virtual-machines/

I can link the various reviews for gaming results, but there's no debate on which company wins here (hint: It's Intel).

So I will once again suggest either the AMD 1600 or Intel i5-8400 based on your original budget of 500 Euro (including RAM). And honestly, who cares if you are running a locked CPU on a Z370 motherboard? If it it gives you the "best bang for the buck" performance that you want, I don't see the big deal. If you feel so guilty about that aspect, you can always buy a more expensive unlocked CPU in the future.

If you want to keep increasing your budget from what you originally stated, then go with a AMD 1700 or 1700x, or a i7-8700. Once again, the Intel chip will be the best gaming CPU, but since you are only gaming at 1080p, just about any decent CPU from the last 7 years will be able to game at that resolution.

I agree, the motherboard costs for intel chips are blown out of proportion, at least in the US. It is only about 50.00 and certainly would not deter me from buying an intel chip. The bigger problem with the 8400 is the availability of the chip itself.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I'm surprised you can't wait more. There's a big release from AMD in Feb/Mar. Unless the Ryzen prices are just too good to pass up?

What is this "big release" going to bring though? A moderate at best clockspeed bump, right? And maybe a few tweaks to ipc? Welcome to be sure, but not a major upgrade.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Anywhere from 4.4 GHz to 5 GHz Zen.

Consider that the desktop won't get anything else until sometime in 2019.

 

[Thunder 57]

Anywhere from 4.4 GHz to 5 GHz Zen.

Consider that the desktop won't get anything else until sometime in 2019.

I'd love to know where you are getting your numbers from. I don't expect anymore than 4.4GHz all core turbo, maybe another 100/200 on top in XFR.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I'd love to know where you are getting your numbers from. I don't expect anymore than 4.4GHz all core turbo, maybe another 100/200 on top in XFR.

It's pretty easy actually.

GF has already cited 10% better transistor performance, which assuming they aren't targeting some clockspeed/power range below Fmax, already gives them 4.4 GHz. Since Fmax for Zen on 14LPP is around 4 GHz.

Ryzen also used high-density libraries. Throw those out the window and you're looking at more clockspeed gains. Take a look at the Fmax differences between Kaveri and Carrizo for a reference point.

5 GHz is probably a stretch, but 4.6 GHz would not surprise me.

 

[Thunder 57]

It's pretty easy actually.

GF has already cited 10% better transistor performance, which assuming they aren't targeting some clockspeed/power range below Fmax, already gives them 4.4 GHz. Since Fmax for Zen on 14LPP is around 4 GHz.

Ryzen also used high-density libraries. Throw those out the window and you're looking at more clockspeed gains. Take a look at the Fmax differences between Kaveri and Carrizo for a reference point.

5 GHz is probably a stretch, but 4.6 GHz would not surprise me.

I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong .

 

[happy medium]

i5 8400 is only about 5% slower than a 8700k in games and is the best bang for your buck on your list.

PC GAMER CPU of the Year: Intel Core i5-8400
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/pc-gamer-cpu-of-the-year-intel-core-i5-8400.2530658/

 

[Thunder 57]

i5 8400 is only about 5% slower than a 8700k in games and is the best bang for your buck on your list.

PC GAMER CPU of the Year: Intel Core i5-8400
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/pc-gamer-cpu-of-the-year-intel-core-i5-8400.2530658/

That's all fine and good, but OP said that they do more than just gaming.

 

[thestbar]

If I wanted to just play games I would definitely go with i5 8400 or I could just go with R5 1600 if I really couldn't find one Intel chip available.

But I want to know if 8400 will be good for other things.
I know that ryzen is 10% slower in games. Which means when you play on 100 fps on Intel you have 90 fps on Ryzen. Wow I don't think I will spot any difference (I am not hardcore player who wants to squeeze every possible fps out of his machine) but boy in other tasks is Ryzen 5% or 30% faster than 8400?

By other tasks I don't talk about cinebench which is just numbers. I want a review which talks about real time performace of these CPUs on Android Studio (mostly about Android Emulators), Unity Engine, Microsoft Visual Studio, the experience when you run maybe 2 Linux VMs and some multitasking on Windows.

PS.: The chips that I have the money and can buy right now are Ryzen 5 1600, Ryzen 7 1700 (these 2 have nice availability) and i5 6400, i5 8600K (these have really bad availability I will wait about a month to get them).

 

[frozentundra123456]

I'd love to know where you are getting your numbers from. I don't expect anymore than 4.4GHz all core turbo, maybe another 100/200 on top in XFR.

That was my expectation as well. At most a 10% clockspeed gain. I am skeptical even the full Ryzen 7nm redisign in 2019 will reach the speculated 5ghz.

 

[Campy]

I don't know about your specific productivity tasks, but for gaming @60Hz I think Ryzen is a no-brainer. Get the 1700, it seems like that's what you want anyway, and buying what you want increases your chances of being happy with your purchase. Merry christmas