Craig's science topics: #2. Why did cavemen paint on the walls?

[Craig234]

Then one day some other change, like a smarty caveman figures out how to use the drawings to better communicate.

That explains why cats developed the ability to paint birds on house walls. Same thing.

Of course I'm leaving out your circular logic that explains the difference.

The reason man went from hunt/sex/sleep to cave painting and cats didn't, is that men are MEN and cats are CATS! Simple.

 

[agent00f]

That explains why cats developed the ability to paint birds on house walls. Same thing.

Of course I'm leaving out your circular logic that explains the difference.

The reason man went from hunt/sex/sleep to cave painting and cats didn't, is that men are MEN and cats are CATS! Simple.

Much of the evolutionary process is happenstancial. If this isn't obvious, do so basic research on how the underlying genetic mutation works. Many animals have odd behaviors that have no obvious benefit, like for example some cats make strange vocalizations despite being solitary. If somehow a few random specimens with various vocalizations were to figure out some primitive communication, then that could be the start of pack behavior, esp if they were to further breed, etc. Each step only has to happen once in a epoch for the pertinent generic material to advance.

Your mind is stuck on the belief that animals somehow choose to develop one trait or another, instead of the rather arbitrary maze that is the evolutionary mesh. This is something you'll have to think over and figure out, instead of insisting people who understand it are wrong.

 

[Craig234]

You continuously misrepresent my posts and my position.

 

[agent00f]

I'm representing your thought process from a perspective that understands how evolution works, so it could very well be different from how you might perceive it. Numerous people with that understanding of the modern science have explained various aspects of evolution to you, and you've chosen to find your own guesswork to be more convincing instead.

Now I suppose that's your right, but it's not very helpful to understanding a somewhat tricky subject matter. Evolutionary biology is an established field with more or less right answers for basic questions, and it's very unlikely that your personal counterarguments are correct.

 

[IronWing]

I don't think very many cave people were painters. If you look at the paintings from any one cave, most paintings from any one time period were likely done by a single artist. Who knows how the rest of the group felt about the paintings? "Og cool"? "Og weird?" "Og gonna starve if he/she doesn't knock it off and get back to gathering food"?

 

[SMOGZINN]

It's a big change from all the animals before who did not do anything like that.

So, it's interesting to determine what made 'animals' - early man - for the first time decide painting on caves was something to do.

I think the answer is quite simple, they had big brains with complex information that they needed/wanted to communicate to others. This is pretty much the same reason that we make art today, be it text book illustrations of the spleen, or a drawing of a female warrior clad in ridiculously skimpy armor standing on a mountain of skulls.
What that information was is another question altogether, and we would have to know a whole lot about their culture to decipher it's message. It might have been aesthetic, "the great bison hunt is beautiful!" It might have been educational, "our tribe hunts the great bison!" It might have been cultural story, "In my day we had to hunt the Great Bison with nothing but wooden sticks!"

 

[Craig234]

I don't think very many cave people were painters. If you look at the paintings from any one cave, most paintings from any one time period were likely done by a single artist. Who knows how the rest of the group felt about the paintings? "Og cool"? "Og weird?" "Og gonna starve if he/she doesn't knock it off and get back to gathering food"?

I'm wondering if there was almost any thought to it at all - they were in the early stages of using tools, and realized they could make marks, and maybe just realized they could and tried it. Wonder why they chose the bison instead of other cavemen. How far away could the earliest pornographic drawings have been? That always drives tech advancement.

 

[IronWing]

I'm wondering if there was almost any thought to it at all - they were in the early stages of using tools, and realized they could make marks, and maybe just realized they could and tried it. Wonder why they chose the bison instead of other cavemen. How far away could the earliest pornographic drawings have been? That always drives tech advancement.

There's a petroglyph near me that shows a guy banging a big horn sheep. My guess is that the young men were hanging out, waiting for game and took up petroglyph carving. "This is you!" "Oh yeah? well, here's you banging a sheep!" <punch in arm, shoot arrow at empty popskull jar>

The cave paintings show quite a bit more thought and artistry. This is what leads me to think that very few people made them. Some of the bison herd paintings are amazing art for any time period.

 

[Craig234]

Article talking about the paintings. They made hand prints as well.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...eanderthal-cave-paintings-spain-science-pike/

 

[RandomWords]

If i were to guess... perhaps in order to inform others how they took down an animal - a record so generations wouldnt forget... or perhaps to tell which places animals liked to gather - similar to a map... or perhaps like some say - to record notable events... or perhaps those caves were used ritualistically and it's their way to spruce it up.

 

[Craig234]

I don't think those guesses are likely right, except the last is more plausible... they don't seem useful for instruction over just taking people to observe, they don't seem to say things about locations, they seem to depict normal activities rather than an event.

 

[RandomWords]

I don't think those guesses are likely right, except the last is more plausible... they don't seem useful for instruction over just taking people to observe, they don't seem to say things about locations, they seem to depict normal activities rather than an event.

Maybe - but again.. they could have assigned whole phrases to simple pictures you know nothing about... much like people mark trails with stones and landmarks or how we use a deer with an x means deer cross the road.

 

[Orange Kid]

It's in our DNA. Give a 2 year old a crayon and they draw on the wall with it if left alone. Parents teach us to draw elsewhere because it is more civilized to do so.
As to why the wall, easy, they are too short to draw on the ceiling.

 

[Craig234]

It's in our DNA. Give a 2 year old a crayon and they draw on the wall with it if left alone. Parents teach us to draw elsewhere because it is more civilized to do so.
As to why the wall, easy, they are too short to draw on the ceiling.

Perhaps - but at some point it got into our DNA, and that's the topic.

 

[cbrunny]

Perhaps - but at some point it got into our DNA, and that's the topic.

cavemen have the exact same DNA as we do. We went through this already.

 

[Craig234]

cavemen have the exact same DNA as we do. We went through this already.

Drop the tone. You are the one who got it wrong. If we and cavemen both have 'painting in our DNA', it got there BEFORE cavemen.

 

[Orange Kid]

Perhaps - but at some point it got into our DNA, and that's the topic.

Gene Mutation I don't think we will ever get an exact date.

 

[agent00f]

Drop the tone. You are the one who got it wrong. If we and cavemen both have 'painting in our DNA', it got there BEFORE cavemen.

Sure, we just haven't found their paintings or equivalent, perhaps because they haven't yet developed paint. If you can't imagine why pictural thinking and representation might evolutionary advantages I don't think anyone can help you.

 

[Craig234]

Gene Mutation I don't think we will ever get an exact date.

Didn't ask for one.

 

[Craig234]

Sure, we just haven't found their paintings or equivalent, perhaps because they haven't yet developed paint. If you can't imagine why pictural thinking and representation might evolutionary advantages I don't think anyone can help you.

What language do you speak?

Since "drop the tone" is in English and you did not understand it. Not reading you again in this thread.

 

[agent00f]

What language do you speak?

Since "drop the tone" is in English and you did not understand it. Not reading you again in this thread.

No, it's completely trivial to understand, evidently unlike all the explanations of why cavemen painted on walls.

 

[Orange Kid]

Perhaps - but at some point it got into our DNA, and that's the topic.

Gene Mutation I don't think we will ever get an exact date.

Didn't ask for one.

Seems to me that you were asking when it got into our DNA. You obviously read all the info in the link.

 

[Craig234]

Seems to me that you were asking when it got into our DNA. You obviously read all the info in the link.

No. The topic was about why the cavepersons made the paintings - and when it was suggested 'it's in their DNA', I pointed out, then, it's interesting to look at why painting got into their DNA.

I wasn't asking for some exact time it occurred, as if it was one event.

That argument is saying that 'the DNA' developed the desire to paint before we know there were any paintings.

Of course, it's not that specific - DNA isn't about 'painting', it's about things that lead to painting. And it's interesting to learn what those are, and why they painted.

 

[sdifox]

Every single poster before me must be single. There is a very simple explanation. The wife wanted the walls decorated. Again.

 

[Iron Woode]

I think I understand what the OP is trying to say but he has a clumsy way of saying it.