Crash of Transasia ATR-72

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,345
2,705
136
The front of your Van is smashed? You rear-ended a plane!
Why were you driving on an airports' runway?
No, I was on the road!

You say you were hit by a plane? Sorry but your policy doesn't cover collisions with aircraft.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
From PPRuNe

"Information released today 06th...

quote

On Feb 6th 2015 Taiwan's ASC reported that the investigation so far determined from flight data and cockpit voice recorders: the aircraft received takeoff clearance at 10:51Z, in the initial climb the aircraft was handed off to departure at 10:52:33Z. At 10:52:38Z a master warning activated, at 10:52:43Z the left hand engine was throttled back and at 10:53:00Z the crew began to discuss engine #1 had stalled. At 10:53:06Z the right hand engine (engine #2) auto-feathered. At 10:53:12Z a first stall warning occured and ceased at 10:53:18Z. At 10:53:19Z the crew discussed that engine #1 had already feathered, the fuel supply had already been cut to the engine and decided to attempt a restart of engine #1. Two seconds later another stall warning activated. At 10:53:34Z the crew radioed "Mayday! Mayday! Engine flame out!", multiple attempts to restart the engines followed to no avail. At 10:54:34Z a second master warning activated, 0.4 seconds later both recorders stopped recording.

unquote"

To summarize,

Engine number 2 (right) failed.
Pilots shut down engine number 1 (left).

They shut down the WRONG engine and were unable to restart it.

http://rt.com/news/229915-taiwan-plane-pilots-engine/

D:
 
Last edited:

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
From PPRuNe

"Information released today 06th...

quote

On Feb 6th 2015 Taiwan's ASC reported that the investigation so far determined from flight data and cockpit voice recorders: the aircraft received takeoff clearance at 10:51Z, in the initial climb the aircraft was handed off to departure at 10:52:33Z. At 10:52:38Z a master warning activated, at 10:52:43Z the left hand engine was throttled back and at 10:53:00Z the crew began to discuss engine #1 had stalled. At 10:53:06Z the right hand engine (engine #2) auto-feathered. At 10:53:12Z a first stall warning occured and ceased at 10:53:18Z. At 10:53:19Z the crew discussed that engine #1 had already feathered, the fuel supply had already been cut to the engine and decided to attempt a restart of engine #1. Two seconds later another stall warning activated. At 10:53:34Z the crew radioed "Mayday! Mayday! Engine flame out!", multiple attempts to restart the engines followed to no avail. At 10:54:34Z a second master warning activated, 0.4 seconds later both recorders stopped recording.

unquote"

To summarize,

Engine number 2 (right) failed.
Pilots shut down engine number 1 (left).

They shut down the WRONG engine and were unable to restart it.

http://rt.com/news/229915-taiwan-plane-pilots-engine/

D:

Wow, that pretty much seals that one.
 

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,174
524
126
Once the props have been feathered on an engine, can they be un-feathered? That is, if the automatic systems detect an engine failure and feather the props, is there any sense in attempting to restart that engine?
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9JarHTIAAAgAy3.jpg:large

They apparently turned off the wrong engine if I am reading that correctly.

Looks like #2 quit and went to idle, the computers automatically sent #1 into boost, feathered #2 props, and closed the bleed for #1. All as it should be to get the most power from the remaining engine.

Then #1 was manually shut off.

Later #1 had a restart or an attempted restart.

Neither engine was producing much power as the plane crashed.

They do apparently get #1 going again, as it is clearly coming back to life at the end.

#2 is also just starting to go back to normal with the warning going away, the props unfeathering and fuel flow rising.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Once the props have been feathered on an engine, can they be un-feathered? That is, if the automatic systems detect an engine failure and feather the props, is there any sense in attempting to restart that engine?

Yes, you can cancel the warning and attempt a restart.

But there is normally no need to bother.

Go with the engine out procedure and return to the airport on the remaining good engine.

Engine out on takeoff is probably the most practiced problem.
 

lsd

Golden Member
Sep 26, 2000
1,184
70
91
From PPRuNe

"Information released today 06th...

quote

On Feb 6th 2015 Taiwan's ASC reported that the investigation so far determined from flight data and cockpit voice recorders: the aircraft received takeoff clearance at 10:51Z, in the initial climb the aircraft was handed off to departure at 10:52:33Z. At 10:52:38Z a master warning activated, at 10:52:43Z the left hand engine was throttled back and at 10:53:00Z the crew began to discuss engine #1 had stalled. At 10:53:06Z the right hand engine (engine #2) auto-feathered. At 10:53:12Z a first stall warning occured and ceased at 10:53:18Z. At 10:53:19Z the crew discussed that engine #1 had already feathered, the fuel supply had already been cut to the engine and decided to attempt a restart of engine #1. Two seconds later another stall warning activated. At 10:53:34Z the crew radioed "Mayday! Mayday! Engine flame out!", multiple attempts to restart the engines followed to no avail. At 10:54:34Z a second master warning activated, 0.4 seconds later both recorders stopped recording.

unquote"

To summarize,

Engine number 2 (right) failed.
Pilots shut down engine number 1 (left).

They shut down the WRONG engine and were unable to restart it.

http://rt.com/news/229915-taiwan-plane-pilots-engine/

D:

So sad, if that is the case, it has happened before - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegworth_air_disaster

Way too many accidents of late due to pilot error.
 

Blitzvogel

Platinum Member
Oct 17, 2010
2,012
23
81
Jesus, I guess in such a pinch situation, things become a blur and mistakes can happen if you panic.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
13
81
www.markbetz.net
Started to read RT article. Ran into this.

"The flight crew stepped on the accelerator of engine 2 [righthand side]... The engine was still operating, but neither engine produced power."
Stopped reading.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,215
5,075
146
It goes like this:
Indentify
Verify
Feather

There are some steps before and after that, but those three are the big part of engine inoperative procedure.

It gets a little ambiguous when it is only a partial power loss. The way you verify is to reduce the throttle on the engine you have identified as inoperative. You should notice no change in yaw or performance, but with a partial power loss you would get a change.
I can't tell you why this crew did it wrong, but I did know that was what happened. Transport category aircraft are tested and rated to have sufficient engine inoperative performance.
 

MarkXIX

Platinum Member
Jan 3, 2010
2,642
1
71
I think at some level we have to credit the pilot(s) for avoiding a much bigger catastrophe.

Sounds like they MAYBE (<= big maybe) made some mistakes, but perhaps they did so while trying to avoid greater loss of life.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,215
5,075
146
I'm sorry but no. There was no need to be in that situation. That's like praising the crew of the Korean airlines crash in California for keeping the plane upright.
 

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,174
524
126
I'm sorry but no. There was no need to be in that situation. That's like praising the crew of the Korean airlines crash in California for keeping the plane upright.

If, indeed, the news coverage within the first 48 hours after the crash told the whole story and there's nothing more to learn. You can be sure that many people will be spending countless hours in the months to come evaluating exactly what happened, but you've already come to a conclusion.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,215
5,075
146
I have 29 years and 3000 hours flight experience, and most of those hours are multi- engine. About a third of that is multi-engine instruction, where we simulate engine inoperative procedures. Sometimes 10 engine cuts per hour of flight time. I spent a lot of time with one engine windmilling or feathered.
I looked at the information available and made an educated guess.
 

Number1

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,881
549
126
If, indeed, the news coverage within the first 48 hours after the crash told the whole story and there's nothing more to learn. You can be sure that many people will be spending countless hours in the months to come evaluating exactly what happened, but you've already come to a conclusion.

I trust Skyking's opinion on this accident. Everything I have read online so far points to pilot error.

If you are really interested, read this thread about this accident on the Professional Pilot Rumor Network.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/555876-transasia-water.html

Not the definitive answer of course but very educated opinions based on officially published information.
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
18,427
2,344
136
As suspected earlier and now confirmed... ^_^
Captain of TransAsia Flight 235 shut off working engine after other failed: Report - CNN July 3 2015.

"Wow, pulled back the wrong side throttle."

These are the words of the captain of TransAsia Airways Flight GE235, eight seconds before the plane clipped a bridge and plunged into a Taiwanese river mere minutes after takeoff, killing 43 people on board.
The latest report by Taiwan's Aviation Safety Council into the February crash confirms that the captain of the ATR 72-600 turboprop aircraft mistakenly switched off the plane's working engine after the other lost power.

The report also showed that the captain had failed simulator training less than a year earlier, partly because he had demonstrated a lack of knowledge of how to respond to engine flameout at takeoff.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |