Crashing - too hot?? need advise

[FredLocks]

Amd 1800+/(retail fan that came with processor)
Epox 8kha+
geforce 3 ti-500
windows 98SE
Antec sx635 case with 1 intake front and 1 discharge rear
350 watt power supply(antec)


I've been crashing while playing games. I opened my case and put my 12" fan blowing in there and it has helped greatly but I still get an occasional crash and I'd rather not have that big fan there. After I crash and reboot my system shows the processor at 55 to 58 cel.

In my BIOS I have a PC health status and the CPU Warning temp & Shutdown Temp are both disabled???? Would this mean that the cause of my crashes is not the processor overheating??? Can I safely set these to say 66 degrees to see if that will help???

thanks
PS I live in Utah and my computer room is 20 degrees hotter now than it was in winter. I never had this problem in winter which leads me to believe it's the heat.

 

[EXman]

It might be due to a bad HS install. too much AS II will do that or a bad connection (the way it is seated). try a blow hole on the side of your case and higher CFM fans too cause some fans do not do squat!

 

[paralazarguer]

it sounds like you've got good airflow. I find with my case here that there's no difference between 2 intake 2 exhaust and only 1 of each. No difference. Even with thermometer testing. No difference. I'm sure your case is fine. Athlon motherboards report the temps differently so that 60 could be 40 on another board. Since you're having stability problems that you can aliviate with a fan it's most likely the application of the heatsink. Make sure that it's not plugged into some RPM controlled header like on some ASUS boards. Make sure that you didn't put it on backwards. I've seen a lot of "experts" who've done that. If you're using the thermal pad that came with heatsink and it's been removed once, it's useless. It will need to be replaced.

 

[FredLocks]

Thanks for the tips....The thermal pad was fine and I did check the fan installation and I put it on correctly...I'll try a better hs fan. Does anyone know about those BIOS settings from my first post? I'm a little gunshy when it comes to messing with them.

thanks

 

[Buz2b]

The thermal pad was fine

No, it's probably part of the problem. Thermal Pads do not work as well as thermal paste. Period. Plus, as was alluded to, if you had the HSF mounted, then took it off to make sure it was "OK", then the thermal pad was crapola; donkey doo. It is only good for one install. Once the HSF is removed, you have to replace the thermal pad or use paste. There is a good chance that thoroughly cleaning the pad off of your HS and remounting it using a good paste will help your situation. Another option would be to increase the airflow in your case. That will net a couple of degrees; contrary to a previous opinion. I have "been there; done that". There are many ways to do this such as just replacing and using more powerful (and noisier) fans, adding more intake directly over the HSF, rerouting the cables in the case to prevent blockage of airflow, adding a small fan in the top of the case to remove accumulated pockets of hot air, etc. Or you could do a combination of a few of the previous suggestions. It is obvious that you need to either reapply the HSF with thermal paste or add more airflow; you proved it with the addition of the external fan. Now you have to decide how you want to do it.
There's also the option of getting a better HSF than the retail version you are using now. You can get one that is much better (and all copper) for just about $10 + shipping.
Anyway, that is my take on things.
Almost forgot; as to the BIOS settings, don't go there unless you know what to look for. Basically, if you haven't made any drastic changes there, then you are probably safe. There are a couple of areas that might help but it is not a sure thing. More on that later.

 

[paralazarguer]

The thermal pad that comes with AMD and Intel CPUs is a very high quality one and is fine. Cable cleanup is a myth just like thermal grease. Unless of course there's a big IDE cable right against one of the fans. 4 fans will not lower temp over 2 fans and neither will super high RPM fans over antec smart fans. I'm tired of all these myths and stupid, stupid people without any common sense. It's the same principle taht applies to water cooling. You can have too much flow and you reach a point of diminishing returns.

 

[paralazarguer]

Also, the standard in at the bottom left out at the top right design is not the best as most people think. The best cooling design is a $30 case that I ran into when reviewing it for my site. I was no front intake but instead only holes at the bottom side and a single exhaust fan. It cools 2 degrees better (measured with both thermometer and same motherboard in all rigs) then lian li PC65 or chieftec/antec cases.

 

[Buz2b]

tired of all these myths and stupid, stupid people without any common sense.

Nice objective, helpful writing. I'm sure that is why you have your "own site".
Good Airflow is a proven method; as is the fact that the thermal pads are NOT nearly the same quality, nor as effective as good thermal paste. Nor are thermal pads any good after you remove the HS; then try to remount it with the same pad. Someone that supposedly reviews hardware and systems for his "site" would certainly know these things. Not acknowledging them is just disagreeing for the sake of a disagreement.
Keep your rants to a minimum and try to stick to helping people, Ok?

 

[paralazarguer]

www.hwsource.com

 

[Buz2b]

www.hwsource.com

And? If you are pointing to this site as a reference, make sure it is a complete and functioning site with links that actually work. Or maybe I am again incorrect and you are trying to prove that there is a site you write for? You'll notice that I didn't say you never wrote for one, I said that , "Someone that supposedly reviews hardware and systems for his "site" would certainly know these things. Not acknowledging them is just disagreeing for the sake of a disagreement. " At any rate, this is going nowhere and is not helping this person. Let's try to stick to that, shall we?

 

[paralazarguer]

There is a single link which is not functioning right now because I will have the site on the blocks for the next several hours. The review section is also down. The site is up and running though.

Back to the original problem though, when you added the large fan was it blowing across your northbridge also? I don't know if your board has a fan on the northbridge but if it does make sure that it's working. Try running the CPU at a 100fsb to put less stress on both the CPU and the northbridge. Let me know how that turns out.

 

[eloric the 2nd]

FredLocks - i was running an XP 1900 on a 8kha+ and before i killed it, it was running at 60-65 and it was ok... i would get some crashes with morrowind where it was at 67-70, so if ur in the 50's u should be fine i think... i'm now running a 2000+ with this HSF and i get 49 idle and only hit 56 underload once... so far stable but its only been 2 days however i should point out that the reseason for my upgrade was b.c. i killed my 1900+ putting a that new HSF on as i was running on the retail one b4... and i used to much artic silver... so becarefull a little realy does go a long way...

one more thing do u know what ur ambiant temp in ur case is??? right now i have 35 cel. with one intake and 2 exahust fans


hope this helps a little....

eloric

 

[mechBgon]

As far as the thermal-pad issue goes, the thermal pad on an AMD retail heatsink is phase-change thermal compound. When the CPU is first powered, the pad "melts to fit" the irregularities between the heatsink and CPU die. The resulting layer of PCTC is quite thin. If the heatsink is removed, this very thin layer of PCTC cannot re-fill the gaps properly a second time. That's why AMD's System Configuration Guide says

Note: If a heatsink is removed for any reason, the old thermal interface material must be completely
removed. If removed, new AMD-recommended phase-change thermal interface material must
be installed on the heatsink. To remove the old material, a soft scraper must be used.
Otherwise, the die may be damaged and processor failure will result.

Remember that CPU manufacturers walk a tightrope. They want their solution to be capable of a 3-year+ lifespan in an install-and-forget situation such as a business PC, so the material must be preapplied and it must not dry out over 3 years.

Back to the problem at hand: your temperatures sound a bit high compared to what some 8KHA+ users are seeing. I would start by trying some good-quality thermal compound in place of the PCTC and see if that improves things. You can get Arctic Alumina for under $3 shipped from SVC (see the Venor Thread locked at the top) or pick up Arctic Silver III.

edit: note that this would probably void your AMD warranty on the technicality that you didn't use a PCTC pad. Then again, AMD-recommended PCTC pads are not easy to find for sale separately. AntecCSR tells me that Antec's thermal pads are made of PCTC and were well-liked by his/her contact at AMD. I haven't tried them myself, and I'm mentioning it for the sake of being thorough. I will try them at work when I get a chance, since we will be building some more AthlonXP workstations soon. Sure will be nice to push a few 100MHz systems out of the fleet...

 

[ThisIsMatt]

4 fans will not lower temp over 2 fans and neither will super high RPM fans over antec smart fans. I'm tired of all these myths and stupid, stupid people without any common sense. It's the same principle taht applies to water cooling. You can have too much flow and you reach a point of diminishing returns.
.
.
.
Also, the standard in at the bottom left out at the top right design is not the best as most people think.

7757524, you need to settle down man. The more air you have moving through the case, the closer your system can be to ambient temperature. I agree that adding more fans eventually brings minimal gains, but you cannot say anything like you just have with absolute certainty when you know nothing of the CFM ratings of the fans used or the placement. It just so happens that I have a case just like you describe -- 3 inches of holes running all along the bottom. I also have installed an 80mm intake fan in the lower front and an 80mm exhaust fan in the upper rear. I also have switches connected to these two fans so I can turn them off...hey, LOOK AT THAT! My motherboard temperture just went up 2°C after turning off my intake fan for a few minutes. Wait, 2°C, that's equal to 0°C, I'll just stop using that fan since I'm a stupid, stupid person without any common sense and this fool-brained idea of having a front bottom intake fan was all crazy talk, cRaZY I telL yOu!! Maybe you're right if my exhaust fan and PSU fan were 50CFM fans, but they're not. Crap, my mobo temp just went up another degree celsius, I think I'll turn my intake fan back on.

Good night

 

[Computerfix]

Not going to get in on the small argument that has started here but will tell you what I've went through.

I have an Asus A7V266-E mobo with an XP1800+ CPU. I've tried about 7 different HSF's on this thing as I thought this thing was running too hot (around 53C idle). The best one I used was the original AMD HSF and some Artic Silver II. I've tried one rear fan, 2 rear fans, 2 rears and 1 front and now I am running 2 rears and 2 fronts (Panaflos). Nothing changed it more than a degree or two. I've got around 5 programs running right now and it's at 59C. I have never had a problem playing any game or any program for that matter. AMD's run alot hotter than P4's do. It's common knowledge. As long as mine is running smooth and no lock ups - I'm fine with what it's running at. I'd look at something else that may be causing the problem as I've seen many many XP's running in the near 60's and run fine. Best of luck to you. By the way - what kind of video card do you have and what kind of cooling does it have on it? I had a GF2 GTS that ran hotter than heck - I ended up putting a better HSF on it.

Russ

 

[paralazarguer]

here's a common sense cooling guide for you.

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: 7757524
here's a common sense cooling guide for you.

Yeah, and it just so happens that this "common sense" article is of your doing. Is this the (soup de jour) agenda of the day; get more hits on your own site? Kinda blatant and self serving isn't it? Please.........................!

 

[paralazarguer]

Lay off buz2be what's your problem? Take a nice pill will ya?

 

[Buz2b]

Sure, as long as you quit trying to shamelessly promote yourself and your "site", like you do here and in other threads. Should I post more? Nah, just "have a nice day!" :Q

 

[paralazarguer]

What's wrong with linking to my own site if it has some useful advice? You need to seriously cool off man.

 

[Gene396]

The last several answers to this thread are nothing but an intellegent person who demands that the exact truth be told; is irratated by person with their own agenda who will take "liberties" to achieve that goal and the real truth be damned!!

Study the replies and you will know who is whom. Both of you can add to this forum. Please keep agendas and vendentas out!!

 

[FredLocks]

computerfix/mechBgon - I will try some arctic silver in place of the pad that was on the stock fan. Boy, a soft scraper to remove the pad huh..any suggestions on a soft scraper to use? My video card is a Geforce 3 ti-500 with a stock fan. I'll rplace that fan as a last resort.

Eloric - the ambiant temp in my case running idle is 40 cel. and my chip is 56 cel acoording to MBM

Thanks for the help folks.

PS could any voltage settings be causing this problem?

 

[IKeelU]

For a while I was hitting cpu idle temps of 55C. I removed my heatsink, noticed the melted pink pad, took it off, sanded the base of my retail AMD HS for a few minutes, re-installed the HS with some generic 25% Silver Compound (as opposed to the 70%+ silver Artic Silver 3).

Now I idle at 49C.

(Note that the sanding job was rather crappy and I only did it to remove the remaining bits of melted pad off the HS).

It's worth a shot, FredLocks.

 

[mechBgon]

The edge of a credit card, etc, makes a good safe scraper. If you have any nail-polish remover around, it will dissolve the residue, and I hear it's good to finish with rubbing alcohol.

 

[Buz2b]

I hear it's good to finish with rubbing alcohol.

I can confirm that. Finishing with alcohol removes the "residue" that can be left from the nail polish remover. If you don't have a old credit card to use, just look around for something, ANYTHING, that is plastic and has a straight edge to it. Then, get out the old kitchen scissors and "make" a scraper. I got myself in a little "hot water" with the wife doing that once, so be careful what you use.