crazy for god

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shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Originally posted by: JKing106
Originally posted by: PJABBER
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
PJABBER

I have personally been close to death a couple of times and can assure you that I had no sudden interest in any god. (One of the times a doctor was honest enough to answer my question by telling me that if I lived through the night, I would likely recover. I spent the night trying to stay awake instead of sleeping through what might have been my last hours. Plenty of time for some mystic revelation, but it never occurred.) I doubt that I am unique in that respect.

Schaeffer is far better positioned to understand the mentality of the religious far right than you or I ever will be. Because of this, I think he has the potential to offer a far more accurate analysis of the religious right than most people. If I cannot find fault with his reasoning, I would tend to accept it.

The "Hitler" connection with Obama has always mystified me. I had tried all kinds of mental gymnastics to see how such a link might be possible, without success. This interview has offered a view that is new and interesting for me to contemplate.

I know death, and the anticipation of death, is experienced differently by everyone. Some are lucky enough to die in a comfortable bed, others covered with the detritus of their own shattered limbs and intestines.

I do not question your experience, nor that of anyone else who might venture a personal opinion on this. Being no stranger to the death of others has taught me to be sensitive to the wishes of those passing. The majority of people I have seen make some kind of a resolution or prayer if they are capable. Most want the comfort of a loved one, particularly their mother, rarely available, or the reassurance that something, God or whatever, will relieve them. I guess the less time you have to think about it the better.

True story: When I was a kid, I choked on an ice cream cone. Couldn't swallow, couldn't breathe. I asphyxiated long enough that my soul/consciousness/whatever separated from my body. I could see myself for a few moments and then I was heading up that long tunnel toward the light which so many other people with near death experiences have described. I had a few flashbacks but nothing significant (I believe someone else with more life experience might have more of a flashback experience.) It felt damn good. It felt better than anything I have felt before or since. Complete calm. Complete peace. The cone melted in my throat, I inhaled and pulled back into my body. I was angrier than I had ever felt before. I was so unhappy to be pulled back from what I was so joyful to be going toward.

Now, I do not want to extrapolate that into a religious experience. I have read quite a bit about near death experience and it all might be a function of progressive brain death and the sequential shut down of brain function. Maybe mystical vision and insight is the result of some kind of epilepsy or early dementia. The person experiencing something like that is getting a massive jolt of emotion, perceived lucidity and a lot more besides. I don't wonder that some may believe God is talking to them at those times.

As a result of my own childhood experience, however, I have absolutely no fear of death. I don't want to die uncomfortably but I don't fear the ending of life. After all, we are all due to check out sooner or later. When I talk to people about how there are many things that are worse than death, they think this is something strange, but I have found it is true.

We are contemplative creatures and the exercise of such consideration is one that gives many of us comfort, even respite from what may afflict us. I do understand and appreciate the depth of true belief in something beyond oneself that can occur. There are some exceptional true believers out there that live a quality of life that is way beyond ordinary existence. Bodhisattvas and saints do walk this earth, but they are rare indeed. But as there are saints so there are manifestations of evil.

Scott Peck wrote two books worth reading on this topic. The first is an homage to a good life, "The Road Less Traveled." The second is an examination of evil, "People of The Lie: The Hope For Healing Human Evil." The first will uplift most who read it, the second should be approached with caution by anyone in a sensitive state or experiencing psychological trauma themselves.

As I stated, I am no moral absolutist and my own belief system is pretty much that I don't have the confidence that man is much capable of understanding divinity, being as we ourselves are not divine.

I have no real understanding of the religious right, though I lived amongst Baptists and fundamentalists for a while. Most are good folks. Many have a calmness which comes from not being the centers of their own universe. It is something worth emulating.

Schaeffer comes across to me as someone sick within his soul. I know, it might just be a projection on my part as I never met the guy and I don't care to spend my time listening to him. He seems to have grown sick with cynicism and carries an air of bitterness that I don't want to expose myself to unduly.

He thinks people on the religious right see Obama as Hitler? I hadn't heard that. Most of the references to commonality come from people who see an encroachment of a developing totalitarian state, or statism.

Obama as another Hitler, the man, is an interesting concept. Both achieved unlikely political power as a result of domestic economic turmoil and in the aftermath of war. Both came from political perspectives that see government as a solution and not a problem. Both had troubled childhoods which caused them to have great inner conflict and ultimately an expression of action beyond what might be expected and against the perceived cause of that childhood trauma, but that is a characteristic of all charismatic leaders, ie Napoleon, Stalin, etc. Hitler was a creature of the Right, while Obama is of the Left, but I believe the extremes are mirror images. It is still early, isn't it, to reach a definitive conclusion?

I believe you would gain much better insight as to where Obama is coming from by reviewing the short program made by Glen Beck today. It apparently kind of wraps up a number of his earlier shows, which I have not seen, about the current Administration and puts it in recent historical focus. If you think Beck's points are valid, then you can watch the earlier segments for more detail.

The One Thing

You really fancy yourself an intellectual, don't you? Every post you make reeks of narcissism. And linking to known hypocrites who have no shred of integrity or decency doesn't help either. So, drop the condescending tone, yes? You're a shill, and a hack, and it's painfully obvious.

He is pretty pathetic. Nothing worse than a fool thinking themselves intelligent. Crazies live in a world of rationalization and justification, while thinking super highly of themselves and surrounding themselves with like minded people.

The guy is borderline retarded and I wish people would stop responding to him.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Originally posted by: JKing106
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: PJABBER
Atheists have the strongest belief system of all.

Bahahahaha. Whatever you say.

Atheists believe that no gods exists with no proof of that theory. That's faith. The same as believers have no proof.

I'm 99% sure there are no gods, but I can't prove it. There, I claim to be an agnostic.

By that reasoning, if you claim that Leprechauns do not exist with no proof, that is faith?

Seriously?

If there is 0 evidence of something, the default belief is that it doesn't exist... until a shred of proof is given.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Originally posted by: spittledip
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: JKing106

Atheists believe that no gods exists with no proof of that theory. That's faith. The same as believers have no proof.

I'm 99% sure there are no gods, but I can't prove it. There, I claim to be an agnostic.

You can't demand that those of us who consider ourselves to be atheists must prove a negative with the existence of non-evidence of a non existent entity.

You're welcome to choose your own label for yourself. You don't have that option with respect to others. To put it another way, I'm an atheist. Prove I'm not.

Originally posted by: spittledip

Jeez, you guys whine a whole lot about atheism not being faith. Who cares? Why do you take it so personally?

It's the other way around. Theists keep insisting we are something we are not and get their theological panties in a wad when we tell them they're full of shit. Why do you care?

I don't care, I just find it funny that you all take it so personally and get so upset over nothing.

When people's beliefs are mischaracterized and used to create an "enemy" for religious people.. yeah.. we should be annoyed. Atheists are not cohesive, do not form any group, and have no set of beliefs. Yet religious people make up some unified nonexistent group to "oppress" them, so they could manipulate their followers and fuel their hate against any nonbelievers.

This hate is tangible in every facet of American life.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
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Originally posted by: PJABBER
Quite a few arguments here about atheism but I wonder if it can be called a "non-belief."

After all, you are professing a belief that there is no God. And that is made as a statement of certainty. If you are certain, then you should be able to provide proof beyond doubt. If you cannot prove that claim then it is just a faith-based statement.

It's not that we believe there is no god, it's that we don't believe that there is a god. The fact that you're to stupid to make that obvious distinction is more than enough proof that you've never studied a lick of philosophy. You could not possibly be more full of shit, you liar.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
1
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Originally posted by: JKing106
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: PJABBER
Atheists have the strongest belief system of all.

Bahahahaha. Whatever you say.

Atheists believe that no gods exists with no proof of that theory. That's faith. The same as believers have no proof.

I'm 99% sure there are no gods, but I can't prove it. There, I claim to be an agnostic.

No, we don't. Stop mis characterizing our position and educate yourself.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
1
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Originally posted by: LunarRay
Are there any Atheists here who have faith that something is true without proof that it is? Remember that Faith is simply a belief that something is true with out proof. EDIT: I believe that my grandson is home at the moment. I don't see him nor do I have any physical proof that he is, but, he said he was going home and I BELIEVE him.

That's not what faith is. Educate yourself.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: PJABBER
Originally posted by: ericlp
I believe this guy hit's the nail right on the head.

I have not read his book, but I will soon. I can relate to this...

I think PJ and PJ Wanna Be's should take a listen to this...

Religion is this countries down fall. It's too big. These people had a lot of power when bush was sitting at the helm letting them do whatever they wanted to do. Now that the power has swung away they are basically FREAKING out. I dunno how you control a religious group that is still powerful and will start doing crazy things when they continue to lose power. It will be interesting to see how our own government will react to this problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E1SLJgATvM&f

Frank Schaeffer is and always has been, as far as I can tell, a fringy kind of guy. I've seen interviews by him before but then I switch channels inside of my 30 second window of establishing and maintaining interest. I think he hates himself more than Moonbeam. And that takes some doing.

Maybe he should marry his boss Arianna Huffington, have their kids godfathered by Arlen Specter and then start a cloning business backed by George Soros where the kids can alternate between being sane and not every other day. Snap! I forgot. They are already into that.

BTW, don't try me on a religious discussion unless you want to have your ass handed to you. Intellectually speaking, of course.

I am agnostic, I guess the operative word floating around some of these threads is "deist." I trained heavily in philosophy and I LOVE the thought and the writings of Thomas Aquinas and David Hume equally. This is a forum on politics but if it were on religion I could really show you what fer.

Having said that, I've never met an atheist in a foxhole and if you want to know if you believe in God or not, get yourself into a place where you expect to meet Him real soon. I've seen lots of deathbed conversions. Funny how that goes, isn't it?

Is it true that our dna is 96% identical to that of chimpanzees?
 

JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
0
0
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Are there any Atheists here who have faith that something is true without proof that it is? Remember that Faith is simply a belief that something is true with out proof. EDIT: I believe that my grandson is home at the moment. I don't see him nor do I have any physical proof that he is, but, he said he was going home and I BELIEVE him.

That's not what faith is. Educate yourself.

That's exactly what the fuck it is. Get over yourself.

faith [feyth] Show IPA
Use faith in a Sentence
?noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
?Idiom
9. in faith, in truth; indeed: In faith, he is a fine lad.
 

JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
0
0
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JKing106
Originally posted by: PJABBER
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
PJABBER

I have personally been close to death a couple of times and can assure you that I had no sudden interest in any god. (One of the times a doctor was honest enough to answer my question by telling me that if I lived through the night, I would likely recover. I spent the night trying to stay awake instead of sleeping through what might have been my last hours. Plenty of time for some mystic revelation, but it never occurred.) I doubt that I am unique in that respect.

Schaeffer is far better positioned to understand the mentality of the religious far right than you or I ever will be. Because of this, I think he has the potential to offer a far more accurate analysis of the religious right than most people. If I cannot find fault with his reasoning, I would tend to accept it.

The "Hitler" connection with Obama has always mystified me. I had tried all kinds of mental gymnastics to see how such a link might be possible, without success. This interview has offered a view that is new and interesting for me to contemplate.

I know death, and the anticipation of death, is experienced differently by everyone. Some are lucky enough to die in a comfortable bed, others covered with the detritus of their own shattered limbs and intestines.

I do not question your experience, nor that of anyone else who might venture a personal opinion on this. Being no stranger to the death of others has taught me to be sensitive to the wishes of those passing. The majority of people I have seen make some kind of a resolution or prayer if they are capable. Most want the comfort of a loved one, particularly their mother, rarely available, or the reassurance that something, God or whatever, will relieve them. I guess the less time you have to think about it the better.

True story: When I was a kid, I choked on an ice cream cone. Couldn't swallow, couldn't breathe. I asphyxiated long enough that my soul/consciousness/whatever separated from my body. I could see myself for a few moments and then I was heading up that long tunnel toward the light which so many other people with near death experiences have described. I had a few flashbacks but nothing significant (I believe someone else with more life experience might have more of a flashback experience.) It felt damn good. It felt better than anything I have felt before or since. Complete calm. Complete peace. The cone melted in my throat, I inhaled and pulled back into my body. I was angrier than I had ever felt before. I was so unhappy to be pulled back from what I was so joyful to be going toward.

Now, I do not want to extrapolate that into a religious experience. I have read quite a bit about near death experience and it all might be a function of progressive brain death and the sequential shut down of brain function. Maybe mystical vision and insight is the result of some kind of epilepsy or early dementia. The person experiencing something like that is getting a massive jolt of emotion, perceived lucidity and a lot more besides. I don't wonder that some may believe God is talking to them at those times.

As a result of my own childhood experience, however, I have absolutely no fear of death. I don't want to die uncomfortably but I don't fear the ending of life. After all, we are all due to check out sooner or later. When I talk to people about how there are many things that are worse than death, they think this is something strange, but I have found it is true.

We are contemplative creatures and the exercise of such consideration is one that gives many of us comfort, even respite from what may afflict us. I do understand and appreciate the depth of true belief in something beyond oneself that can occur. There are some exceptional true believers out there that live a quality of life that is way beyond ordinary existence. Bodhisattvas and saints do walk this earth, but they are rare indeed. But as there are saints so there are manifestations of evil.

Scott Peck wrote two books worth reading on this topic. The first is an homage to a good life, "The Road Less Traveled." The second is an examination of evil, "People of The Lie: The Hope For Healing Human Evil." The first will uplift most who read it, the second should be approached with caution by anyone in a sensitive state or experiencing psychological trauma themselves.

As I stated, I am no moral absolutist and my own belief system is pretty much that I don't have the confidence that man is much capable of understanding divinity, being as we ourselves are not divine.

I have no real understanding of the religious right, though I lived amongst Baptists and fundamentalists for a while. Most are good folks. Many have a calmness which comes from not being the centers of their own universe. It is something worth emulating.

Schaeffer comes across to me as someone sick within his soul. I know, it might just be a projection on my part as I never met the guy and I don't care to spend my time listening to him. He seems to have grown sick with cynicism and carries an air of bitterness that I don't want to expose myself to unduly.

He thinks people on the religious right see Obama as Hitler? I hadn't heard that. Most of the references to commonality come from people who see an encroachment of a developing totalitarian state, or statism.

Obama as another Hitler, the man, is an interesting concept. Both achieved unlikely political power as a result of domestic economic turmoil and in the aftermath of war. Both came from political perspectives that see government as a solution and not a problem. Both had troubled childhoods which caused them to have great inner conflict and ultimately an expression of action beyond what might be expected and against the perceived cause of that childhood trauma, but that is a characteristic of all charismatic leaders, ie Napoleon, Stalin, etc. Hitler was a creature of the Right, while Obama is of the Left, but I believe the extremes are mirror images. It is still early, isn't it, to reach a definitive conclusion?

I believe you would gain much better insight as to where Obama is coming from by reviewing the short program made by Glen Beck today. It apparently kind of wraps up a number of his earlier shows, which I have not seen, about the current Administration and puts it in recent historical focus. If you think Beck's points are valid, then you can watch the earlier segments for more detail.

The One Thing

You really fancy yourself an intellectual, don't you? Every post you make reeks of narcissism. And linking to known hypocrites who have no shred of integrity or decency doesn't help either. So, drop the condescending tone, yes? You're a shill, and a hack, and it's painfully obvious.

He is pretty pathetic. Nothing worse than a fool thinking themselves intelligent. Crazies live in a world of rationalization and justification, while thinking super highly of themselves and surrounding themselves with like minded people.

The guy is borderline retarded and I wish people would stop responding to him.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
1
0
Originally posted by: JKing106
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Are there any Atheists here who have faith that something is true without proof that it is? Remember that Faith is simply a belief that something is true with out proof. EDIT: I believe that my grandson is home at the moment. I don't see him nor do I have any physical proof that he is, but, he said he was going home and I BELIEVE him.

That's not what faith is. Educate yourself.

That's exactly what the fuck it is. Get over yourself.

faith [feyth] Show IPA
Use faith in a Sentence
?noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
?Idiom
9. in faith, in truth; indeed: In faith, he is a fine lad.

First of all, I'm sick of people quoting dictionaries as some sort of proof of anything. Dictionaries are not authoritative in any way and don't claim to be - they record word usage, the do NOT define word meaning.

Faith in the context of religion is NOT the same as faith in the everyday sense of the word, and you know it. People use the word "faith" interchangeably with "trust" or "belief", but that is not the same as the word "faith" in the context of religiosity. To claim that atheists have faith in the same way as Christians do just because the same word can mean two very different things is specious and just plain wrong.
 

JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
0
0
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: JKing106
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Are there any Atheists here who have faith that something is true without proof that it is? Remember that Faith is simply a belief that something is true with out proof. EDIT: I believe that my grandson is home at the moment. I don't see him nor do I have any physical proof that he is, but, he said he was going home and I BELIEVE him.

That's not what faith is. Educate yourself.

That's exactly what the fuck it is. Get over yourself.

faith [feyth] Show IPA
Use faith in a Sentence
?noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
?Idiom
9. in faith, in truth; indeed: In faith, he is a fine lad.

First of all, I'm sick of people quoting dictionaries as some sort of proof of anything. Dictionaries are not authoritative in any way and don't claim to be - they record word usage, the do NOT define word meaning.

First of all, I'm don't give a rat's ass about what you're tired of. Dictionaries exist to offer the definitive meaning of words. It's not open to interperatation. You are wrong.

Faith in the context of religion is NOT the same as faith in the everyday sense of the word, and you know it. People use the word "faith" interchangeably with "trust" or "belief", but that is not the same as the word "faith" in the context of religiosity. To claim that atheists have faith in the same way as Christians do just because the same word can mean two very different things is specious and just plain wrong.

It is the same, stop making stupid arguments based on semantics. This is about your fucking ego, and not wanting to be lumped in with the "sheep." Well guess what, if you believe something without proof, its fucking faith. The word is not exclusive to religion. Again, get over yourself.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
1
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Originally posted by: JKing106
First of all, I'm don't give a rat's ass about what you're tired of. Dictionaries exist to offer the definitive meaning of words. It's not open to interperatation. You are wrong.

Is that why the very dictionary you copy & pasted that definition from has a definition of "irregardless", regardless of the fact that it's not a real word? Dictionaries record language, you're just plain wrong. Sorry mate.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
1
0
Originally posted by: JKing106
That makes two of us, then. You ready to admit you're wrong yet?

The premise I was arguing against is that atheists have faith, same as the religious. This is not true - it could be argued that atheists have "faith" in the everday sense of the word (as a synonym for "trust" or "belief") but that is not the same as having "faith" like a Christian or Muslim - the fact that there is a single word with two very distinct meanings confuses the situation but this should have been obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Now to claim that atheists have "faith" as in they have a lack of beliefs without complete information if just plain silly, you may as well be telling me the sky is blue. You don't have proof that Russell's Teapot doesn't exist (because such proof is, in fact, impossible to acquire) but you don't consider your lack of belief to be a faith, except in the strictly technical spirit of the word. If that's what you're arguing for then you're even more stupid than you've already proven to be.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,296
6,355
126
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: JKing106
That makes two of us, then. You ready to admit you're wrong yet?

The premise I was arguing against is that atheists have faith, same as the religious. This is not true - it could be argued that atheists have "faith" in the everday sense of the word (as a synonym for "trust" or "belief") but that is not the same as having "faith" like a Christian or Muslim - the fact that there is a single word with two very distinct meanings confuses the situation but this should have been obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Now to claim that atheists have "faith" as in they have a lack of beliefs without complete information if just plain silly, you may as well be telling me the sky is blue. You don't have proof that Russell's Teapot doesn't exist (because such proof is, in fact, impossible to acquire) but you don't consider your lack of belief to be a faith, except in the strictly technical spirit of the word. If that's what you're arguing for then you're even more stupid than you've already proven to be.

What you have faith in is the logicality of your thinking. A child is told to wash his hands because there are germs he has no idea exist but he takes his parents word for it because he has learned that older people know things he doesn't and evolution has equipped him for this kind of faith.

You have faith that you are an adult and are not in a position, not as an ignorant child, but of an authority on what is real and what is not. That is where your faith is. You imagine that God what you imagine Him to be, some silly construct of weak minds other people in their silliness believe in, but that God does not exist and never did so you are atheistic about nonsense. You know noting about the real science that leads to an understanding of germs, I mean God. You don't know that the road to the knowledge to God is within, that is the hidden truth of religion, hidden also from the religious. You are smug in your assurance there is no bearded man in the sky and are completely unaware of the science of states, the hidden conscious potential that is your birth right. And you probably won't know ever because of your arrogance. For you the subject is closed. You have already seen through that delusion and have no further need of understanding. You are a child who knows that germs are just a means of control, of getting you to wash your hands for some stupid reason.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: JKing106
That makes two of us, then. You ready to admit you're wrong yet?

The premise I was arguing against is that atheists have faith, same as the religious. This is not true - it could be argued that atheists have "faith" in the everday sense of the word (as a synonym for "trust" or "belief") but that is not the same as having "faith" like a Christian or Muslim - the fact that there is a single word with two very distinct meanings confuses the situation but this should have been obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Now to claim that atheists have "faith" as in they have a lack of beliefs without complete information if just plain silly, you may as well be telling me the sky is blue. You don't have proof that Russell's Teapot doesn't exist (because such proof is, in fact, impossible to acquire) but you don't consider your lack of belief to be a faith, except in the strictly technical spirit of the word. If that's what you're arguing for then you're even more stupid than you've already proven to be.

What you have faith in is the logicality of your thinking. A child is told to wash his hands because there are germs he has no idea exist but he takes his parents word for it because he has learned that older people know things he doesn't and evolution has equipped him for this kind of faith.

You have faith that you are an adult and are not in a position, not as an ignorant child, but of an authority on what is real and what is not. That is where your faith is. You imagine that God what you imagine Him to be, some silly construct of weak minds other people in their silliness believe in, but that God does not exist and never did so you are atheistic about nonsense. You know noting about the real science that leads to an understanding of germs, I mean God. You don't know that the road to the knowledge to God is within, that is the hidden truth of religion, hidden also from the religious. You are smug in your assurance there is no bearded man in the sky and are completely unaware of the science of states, the hidden conscious potential that is your birth right. And you probably won't know ever because of your arrogance. For you the subject is closed. You have already seen through that delusion and have no further need of understanding. You are a child who knows that germs are just a means of control, of getting you to wash your hands for some stupid reason.

Exactly.

Though I would clean up the language a bit to make it clearer.

For all the possible external manifestations of God, which can be disputed ad infinitum, Man's only likely access is from within. And as we can see in all of the above dispute, close to impossible for many.

See my sig rules below to get a clue.
 

Shallok

Member
Jul 12, 2005
38
0
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Originally posted by: LunarRay
Are there any Atheists here who have faith that something is true without proof that it is? Remember that Faith is simply a belief that something is true with out proof. EDIT: I believe that my grandson is home at the moment. I don't see him nor do I have any physical proof that he is, but, he said he was going home and I BELIEVE him.

Sure. I have faith that my wife loves me, but I do not have definitive proof. Religious faith, however, is not belief without proof, it is belief without evidence.

Atheism is not the lack of faith. It is the lack of religious faith. Obfuscating the discussion by declaring faith is religious faith serves no purpose but to create a shield for religious apologists to hide behind-much like trying to define atheism as a belief system.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: JKing106
First of all, I'm don't give a rat's ass about what you're tired of. Dictionaries exist to offer the definitive meaning of words. It's not open to interperatation. You are wrong.

Is that why the very dictionary you copy & pasted that definition from has a definition of "irregardless", regardless of the fact that it's not a real word? Dictionaries record language, you're just plain wrong. Sorry mate.

Yes they are opposites that mean the same thing in defiance of logic, probably because someone did not have a dictionary and gilded the lily UN-grammatically

edit; On topic-Whhen you are aware of the changes in brain chemistry associated with Religion, cults, deep belief systems, even just prayer and meditation: Crazy for god is very apt.
 

JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
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Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: JKing106
First of all, I'm don't give a rat's ass about what you're tired of. Dictionaries exist to offer the definitive meaning of words. It's not open to interperatation. You are wrong.

Is that why the very dictionary you copy & pasted that definition from has a definition of "irregardless", regardless of the fact that it's not a real word? Dictionaries record language, you're just plain wrong. Sorry mate.

Yes they are opposites that mean the same thing in defiance of logic, probably because someone did not have a dictionary and gilded the lily UN-grammatically

I ain't got no 'sponsibilty to talk rite.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Are there any Atheists here who have faith that something is true without proof that it is? Remember that Faith is simply a belief that something is true with out proof. EDIT: I believe that my grandson is home at the moment. I don't see him nor do I have any physical proof that he is, but, he said he was going home and I BELIEVE him.

That's not what faith is. Educate yourself.

"Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. The word "faith" can refer to a religion itself or to religion in general. As with "trust", faith involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used conversely for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence." Informal usage of the word "faith" can be quite broad, and may be used in place of "trust" or "belief."

Faith is often used in a religious context, as in theology, where it almost universally refers to a trusting belief in a transcendent reality, or else in a Supreme Being and/or said being's role in the order of transcendent, spiritual things.

Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true. It is the belief and the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, based on his or her authority and truthfulness.

The English word faith is dated from 1200?50, from the Latin fidem, or fides, meaning trust, akin to fidere, which means to trust"

I trust that the above is pretty much a reasonable definition. It may not be what you understand but I have faith that you'll be edified in this case.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Originally posted by: JKing106
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: JKing106
First of all, I'm don't give a rat's ass about what you're tired of. Dictionaries exist to offer the definitive meaning of words. It's not open to interperatation. You are wrong.

Is that why the very dictionary you copy & pasted that definition from has a definition of "irregardless", regardless of the fact that it's not a real word? Dictionaries record language, you're just plain wrong. Sorry mate.

Yes they are opposites that mean the same thing in defiance of logic, probably because someone did not have a dictionary and gilded the lily UN-grammatically

I ain't got no 'sponsibilty to talk rite.
English Major drop out? Then even for that ther is a fix, spell check.

 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: JKing106
First of all, I'm don't give a rat's ass about what you're tired of. Dictionaries exist to offer the definitive meaning of words. It's not open to interperatation. You are wrong.

Is that why the very dictionary you copy & pasted that definition from has a definition of "irregardless", regardless of the fact that it's not a real word? Dictionaries record language, you're just plain wrong. Sorry mate.

Using words that might just have meaning to you I'll proffer the following: It is universally accepted by most that words convey the thoughts of the author. Irregardless seems to be used in the same way regardless is by some who sort of like the way it sounds as it rolls off the tongue. It is a word. Only the galactic-ally hard headed or stupid or in some cases, the boxed in by foot in mouth would attempt to de-contextualize the obvious by the tangential skating of the defeated.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Originally posted by: Underclocked
I think if all the peoples of the world adopted ONE rule of conduct, the world would certainly be a much better place. It's sometimes called the "Golden Rule" and I think it would hold true for everyone with the possible exception of masochists.

Whether there is or is not a God or gods is a question that nobody can truly answer with certainty, at least not outside the quirks of their own minds. I personally think not but cannot be sure.

After all - regardless of your faith, non-faith, or wacked out perception of that - you can actually do no better than to abide by that rule. It covers everything.

Of course legal minds would require 10,000 pages of fine text to outline what it covers.

I will give you a set of rules from Wesley, you can follow them if you wish. "Do all the good you can. By all the means you can. In all the ways you can. In all the places you can. At all the times you can. To all the people you can. As long as ever you can."I see this as setting a threshold for what one should do and a limit to guilt in what you cannot.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Shallok
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Are there any Atheists here who have faith that something is true without proof that it is? Remember that Faith is simply a belief that something is true with out proof. EDIT: I believe that my grandson is home at the moment. I don't see him nor do I have any physical proof that he is, but, he said he was going home and I BELIEVE him.

Sure. I have faith that my wife loves me, but I do not have definitive proof. Religious faith, however, is not belief without proof, it is belief without evidence.

Atheism is not the lack of faith. It is the lack of religious faith. Obfuscating the discussion by declaring faith is religious faith serves no purpose but to create a shield for religious apologists to hide behind-much like trying to define atheism as a belief system.

I reread what I wrote and read what you wrote in your second para and don't seem to grasp that I said faith was a religious term only.
You can feel free to assume the obvious, however. Faith is belief that something is true with out the supporting evidence needed to provide proof (to an individual). I say it that way cuz the same evidence can be proof of one situation to one person and proof of another situation to the next person.
The absence of faith regarding a situation means, at least to me, that the hurdle that has to be overcome has not been. There is no belief. I presume because there is not enough evidence to convince to the point the evidence is the proof of the fact alleged.

 
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