Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
PJABBER
I have personally been close to death a couple of times and can assure you that I had no sudden interest in any god. (One of the times a doctor was honest enough to answer my question by telling me that if I lived through the night, I would likely recover. I spent the night trying to stay awake instead of sleeping through what might have been my last hours. Plenty of time for some mystic revelation, but it never occurred.) I doubt that I am unique in that respect.
Schaeffer is far better positioned to understand the mentality of the religious far right than you or I ever will be. Because of this, I think he has the potential to offer a far more accurate analysis of the religious right than most people. If I cannot find fault with his reasoning, I would tend to accept it.
The "Hitler" connection with Obama has always mystified me. I had tried all kinds of mental gymnastics to see how such a link might be possible, without success. This interview has offered a view that is new and interesting for me to contemplate.
I know death, and the anticipation of death, is experienced differently by everyone. Some are lucky enough to die in a comfortable bed, others covered with the detritus of their own shattered limbs and intestines.
I do not question your experience, nor that of anyone else who might venture a personal opinion on this. Being no stranger to the death of others has taught me to be sensitive to the wishes of those passing. The majority of people I have seen make some kind of a resolution or prayer if they are capable. Most want the comfort of a loved one, particularly their mother, rarely available, or the reassurance that something, God or whatever, will relieve them. I guess the less time you have to think about it the better.
True story: When I was a kid, I choked on an ice cream cone. Couldn't swallow, couldn't breathe. I asphyxiated long enough that my soul/consciousness/whatever separated from my body. I could see myself for a few moments and then I was heading up that long tunnel toward the light which so many other people with near death experiences have described. I had a few flashbacks but nothing significant (I believe someone else with more life experience might have more of a flashback experience.) It felt damn good. It felt better than anything I have felt before or since. Complete calm. Complete peace. The cone melted in my throat, I inhaled and pulled back into my body. I was angrier than I had ever felt before. I was so unhappy to be pulled back from what I was so joyful to be going toward.
Now, I do not want to extrapolate that into a religious experience. I have read quite a bit about near death experience and it all might be a function of progressive brain death and the sequential shut down of brain function. Maybe mystical vision and insight is the result of some kind of epilepsy or early dementia. The person experiencing something like that is getting a massive jolt of emotion, perceived lucidity and a lot more besides. I don't wonder that some may believe God is talking to them at those times.
As a result of my own childhood experience, however, I have absolutely no fear of death. I don't want to die uncomfortably but I don't fear the ending of life. After all, we are all due to check out sooner or later. When I talk to people about how there are many things that are worse than death, they think this is something strange, but I have found it is true.
We are contemplative creatures and the exercise of such consideration is one that gives many of us comfort, even respite from what may afflict us. I do understand and appreciate the depth of true belief in something beyond oneself that can occur. There are some exceptional true believers out there that live a quality of life that is way beyond ordinary existence. Bodhisattvas and saints do walk this earth, but they are rare indeed. But as there are saints so there are manifestations of evil.
Scott Peck wrote two books worth reading on this topic. The first is an homage to a good life, "The Road Less Traveled." The second is an examination of evil, "People of The Lie: The Hope For Healing Human Evil." The first will uplift most who read it, the second should be approached with caution by anyone in a sensitive state or experiencing psychological trauma themselves.
As I stated, I am no moral absolutist and my own belief system is pretty much that I don't have the confidence that man is much capable of understanding divinity, being as we ourselves are not divine.
I have no real understanding of the religious right, though I lived amongst Baptists and fundamentalists for a while. Most are good folks. Many have a calmness which comes from not being the centers of their own universe. It is something worth emulating.
Schaeffer comes across to me as someone sick within his soul. I know, it might just be a projection on my part as I never met the guy and I don't care to spend my time listening to him. He seems to have grown sick with cynicism and carries an air of bitterness that I don't want to expose myself to unduly.
He thinks people on the religious right see Obama as Hitler? I hadn't heard that. Most of the references to commonality come from people who see an encroachment of a developing totalitarian state, or statism.
Obama as another Hitler, the man, is an interesting concept. Both achieved unlikely political power as a result of domestic economic turmoil and in the aftermath of war. Both came from political perspectives that see government as a solution and not a problem. Both had troubled childhoods which caused them to have great inner conflict and ultimately an expression of action beyond what might be expected and against the perceived cause of that childhood trauma, but that is a characteristic of all charismatic leaders, ie Napoleon, Stalin, etc. Hitler was a creature of the Right, while Obama is of the Left, but I believe the extremes are mirror images. It is still early, isn't it, to reach a definitive conclusion?
I believe you would gain much better insight as to where Obama is coming from by reviewing the short program made by Glen Beck today. It apparently kind of wraps up a number of his earlier shows, which I have not seen, about the current Administration and puts it in recent historical focus. If you think Beck's points are valid, then you can watch the earlier segments for more detail.
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