Crazy video! Russian experiments on dogs...

[RaiderJ]

Link

Shows various experiments on dogs using artificial hearts and even a bodyless head kept alive.

I can't figure out if I find the video interesting or horrific - possibly both.

EDIT: Decided I don't like the video. The one dog looks too much like my puppy.

 

[AccruedExpenditure]

tagged

 

[CKent]

Not watching.. I can watch people getting horrifically injured no problem, not dogs though.

 

[Literati]

That video's really, really weird.

I don't know man, when they had the dog head responding to external stimuli, like I don't know, when the doctor very scientifically started poking it's eye with a stick, it kind of freaked me out.

It seemed like it was ?alive? in the most basic sense of the word. Didn't seem to be intelligent, as intelligent as a dog may be, but it was definitely functioning on some level.

I honestly don't know what to make of the video. The internets got me jaded, but this is definately up there.

[EDIT]

My thoughts : It wasn't gruesome, but it's odd.

And if you're a dog person like myself, I'd go ahead and skip this one.

The videos just plain creepy.

 

[mooncancook]

look fictional.

 

[Brutuskend]

Originally posted by: CKent
Not watching.. I can watch people getting horrifically injured no problem, not dogs though.

Ditto.

I started it then thought better of it before I got more than a few seconds into it.

 

[Taggart]

Originally posted by: CKent
Not watching.. I can watch people getting horrifically injured no problem, not dogs though.

QFT

 

[clickynext]

Originally posted by: mooncancook
look fictional.

Yeah, I don't know about the dog head....

 

[Gooberlx2]

That pretty damn cool. Feel bad for the head alone, but interesting nonetheless. I wonder if it was actually brain dead in the areas that process pain and fear. It's easier for the autonomic areas to maintain themselves. I would have figured the dogs would have been mentally affected after 15 minutes without oxygen, but perhaps a smaller, simpler brain equals a heartier one?

 

[PottedMeat]

Is it this one: Internet Archive: Experiments in the Revival of Organisms

Theres a high res one there.

 

[RaiderJ]

I think the dog head was sedated somehow, otherwise I imagine the animal would have been much more.... active?

 

[Literati]

Originally posted by: clickynext

Originally posted by: mooncancook
look fictional.

Yeah, I don't know about the dog head....

The thing that made me raise half an eyebrow was the dog head camera angle, and the fact when they were doing their elaborate tests, like hitting a hammer next to the dogs face, it's head seemed to move substantially.

I don't know if neck muscles alone could give the dog head that much movement, but on the other hand, I'm not sure I'm interested enough to investigate further.

 

[Literati]

Originally posted by: PottedMeat

Is it this one: Internet Archive: Experiments in the Revival of Organisms

Theres a high res one there.

Yes it's that one.

 

[imported_LoKe]

Boffin.

 

[schneiderguy]

the part with the dog head looked fake

 

[The Pentium Guy]

This is horrific.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Experiment1940.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiments_in_the_Revival_of_Organisms

"Modern medical authorities reject this film outright for many of the above noted inconsistencies.

1. A heart requires a 'pacemaker', in the form of nerves from the brain. It will not last for any length of time severed from this link. The heart also will not restart spontaneously just because oxygenated blood is flowing. Cardiac muscle scars very easily when oxygen is limited, thus the high incidence of heart attacks in humans.
2. Irreversible brain death takes mere minutes to occur at room temperature. Even accounting for the relative simplicity of a canine brain, it is not likely that revival would be possible after ten minutes of clinical death without severe negative effects to the animal's central nervous system
3. The heart-lung machine described would not operate at anywhere near the capacity required for a large organism, such as the example dog. The 'lung' was far too small and could not have sustained a useful oxygenation rate. The two pumps replacing the heart were also inadequate for the task. A modern heart-lung machine is much larger for these reasons.

It is not likely that this film represents serious scientific research, rather Soviet propaganda. Perhaps the Soviets did research in this area but technology (and understanding) was not adequate for the research to be successful.

All these points aside, however, the film does do a reasonable job at describing how a basic heart-lung machine would function."

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: The Pentium Guy
This is horrific.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Experiment1940.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiments_in_the_Revival_of_Organisms

"Modern medical authorities reject this film outright for many of the above noted inconsistencies.

1. A heart requires a 'pacemaker', in the form of nerves from the brain. It will not last for any length of time severed from this link. The heart also will not restart spontaneously just because oxygenated blood is flowing. Cardiac muscle scars very easily when oxygen is limited, thus the high incidence of heart attacks in humans.
2. Irreversible brain death takes mere minutes to occur at room temperature. Even accounting for the relative simplicity of a canine brain, it is not likely that revival would be possible after ten minutes of clinical death without severe negative effects to the animal's central nervous system
3. The heart-lung machine described would not operate at anywhere near the capacity required for a large organism, such as the example dog. The 'lung' was far too small and could not have sustained a useful oxygenation rate. The two pumps replacing the heart were also inadequate for the task. A modern heart-lung machine is much larger for these reasons.

It is not likely that this film represents serious scientific research, rather Soviet propaganda. Perhaps the Soviets did research in this area but technology (and understanding) was not adequate for the research to be successful.

All these points aside, however, the film does do a reasonable job at describing how a basic heart-lung machine would function."

That is false. A heart can function outside of a connection to the brain.

 

[91TTZ]

I wonder how much of that is factual? I thought brain damage occurs after a minute or two? They left it there for 10 minutes and it fully recovered?

Also, if this machine works as easily as that, why do you see doctors fighting to revive a patient's heart when he can simply hook the person up to this machine and keep them alive? Then he could take his time reviving the person's heartbeat.

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: RaiderJ

Originally posted by: The Pentium Guy
This is horrific.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Experiment1940.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiments_in_the_Revival_of_Organisms

"Modern medical authorities reject this film outright for many of the above noted inconsistencies.

1. A heart requires a 'pacemaker', in the form of nerves from the brain. It will not last for any length of time severed from this link. The heart also will not restart spontaneously just because oxygenated blood is flowing. Cardiac muscle scars very easily when oxygen is limited, thus the high incidence of heart attacks in humans.
2. Irreversible brain death takes mere minutes to occur at room temperature. Even accounting for the relative simplicity of a canine brain, it is not likely that revival would be possible after ten minutes of clinical death without severe negative effects to the animal's central nervous system
3. The heart-lung machine described would not operate at anywhere near the capacity required for a large organism, such as the example dog. The 'lung' was far too small and could not have sustained a useful oxygenation rate. The two pumps replacing the heart were also inadequate for the task. A modern heart-lung machine is much larger for these reasons.

It is not likely that this film represents serious scientific research, rather Soviet propaganda. Perhaps the Soviets did research in this area but technology (and understanding) was not adequate for the research to be successful.

All these points aside, however, the film does do a reasonable job at describing how a basic heart-lung machine would function."

That is false. A heart can function outside of a connection to the brain.

you'd need an electrical impluse to stimulate the heart to get it to beat in rhythm, or just beat IIRC.

 

[AaronB]

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: RaiderJ

Originally posted by: The Pentium Guy
This is horrific.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Experiment1940.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiments_in_the_Revival_of_Organisms

"Modern medical authorities reject this film outright for many of the above noted inconsistencies.

1. A heart requires a 'pacemaker', in the form of nerves from the brain. It will not last for any length of time severed from this link. The heart also will not restart spontaneously just because oxygenated blood is flowing. Cardiac muscle scars very easily when oxygen is limited, thus the high incidence of heart attacks in humans.
2. Irreversible brain death takes mere minutes to occur at room temperature. Even accounting for the relative simplicity of a canine brain, it is not likely that revival would be possible after ten minutes of clinical death without severe negative effects to the animal's central nervous system
3. The heart-lung machine described would not operate at anywhere near the capacity required for a large organism, such as the example dog. The 'lung' was far too small and could not have sustained a useful oxygenation rate. The two pumps replacing the heart were also inadequate for the task. A modern heart-lung machine is much larger for these reasons.

It is not likely that this film represents serious scientific research, rather Soviet propaganda. Perhaps the Soviets did research in this area but technology (and understanding) was not adequate for the research to be successful.

All these points aside, however, the film does do a reasonable job at describing how a basic heart-lung machine would function."

That is false. A heart can function outside of a connection to the brain.

you'd need an electrical impluse to stimulate the heart to get it to beat in rhythm, or just beat IIRC.

Text

 

[FrustratedUser]

:Q

 

[FrustratedUser]

I don't know what to think. Something is not right with this film.

 

[Cdubneeddeal]

Interesting video. I wonder if that dog was in pain during that whole experiment even though it was "dead" but alive.

 

[EarthwormJim]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
I wonder how much of that is factual? I thought brain damage occurs after a minute or two? They left it there for 10 minutes and it fully recovered?

Also, if this machine works as easily as that, why do you see doctors fighting to revive a patient's heart when he can simply hook the person up to this machine and keep them alive? Then he could take his time reviving the person's heartbeat.

The dogs could have suffered brain damage, it's harder to tell with them versus a talking person.

Although you often do hear of drown victims who have been "dead" for several minutes being revived with little to no brain damage.

Good question, probably because it takes time to do the prepatory surgery to run such a machine. Probably more time than it would take to revive a heart. Also I would think certain settings would have to be "custom" tailored to a patient for them to survive.