Creative X-Fi

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: blurredvision
A couple of questions:

I have an analog 5.1 setup, with green/black/orange cables hooked in. Is it in my best interest to just leave CMSS off when using my 5.1 speaker setup? It's my understanding that CMSS is just a technology to enhance headphones and 2/2.1 setups. I have it set to turn on automatically when I plug in headphones, which works great, but I'm not really sure if I even need it turned on when not using headphones.
Also, 24-bit Crystalizer is turned on by default at 50%. Is this something that would sound best at 100%? Or is it akin to a bass or treble knob, just depends on where I like the sound the best?

EDIT: Also, any word on upcoming games supporting 3D VoIP? I'm really, really interested in this feature of EAX 5.0, and would love to put it to the test.

Hey, so when you plug your headphones in, the speaker setup switches to headphones with the CMSS-3D turned on automatically? When you unplug your headphones does the speaker setup swtich back to 5.1? That's what I'm having trouble with...but I guess I haven't had enough time really to mess around with it.

Which of the Creative software did you install (or did you install everything?)

I gotta admit...for as much as Creative has touted the wonderfullness of these products (and I think they are pretty dang good), and all of their features (which, for all of my intents and purposes, are pretty robust) they really, really lack in product documentation.

[edit for your questions]
Yeah, I think the crystalizer is a personal preference sort of thing. I have mine set at 80%....but I'd like to hear what other people are preferring.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the CMSS-3D with a 5.1 setup. I like feeling enveloped by the music, instead of just a stereo sound in front of me. But that's for music. I dunno how it affects games, if at all.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: blurredvision
A couple of questions:

I have an analog 5.1 setup, with green/black/orange cables hooked in. Is it in my best interest to just leave CMSS off when using my 5.1 speaker setup? It's my understanding that CMSS is just a technology to enhance headphones and 2/2.1 setups. I have it set to turn on automatically when I plug in headphones, which works great, but I'm not really sure if I even need it turned on when not using headphones.
Also, 24-bit Crystalizer is turned on by default at 50%. Is this something that would sound best at 100%? Or is it akin to a bass or treble knob, just depends on where I like the sound the best?

EDIT: Also, any word on upcoming games supporting 3D VoIP? I'm really, really interested in this feature of EAX 5.0, and would love to put it to the test.

Hey, so when you plug your headphones in, the speaker setup switches to headphones with the CMSS-3D turned on automatically? When you unplug your headphones does the speaker setup swtich back to 5.1? That's what I'm having trouble with...but I guess I haven't had enough time really to mess around with it.

Which of the Creative software did you install (or did you install everything?)

I gotta admit...for as much as Creative has touted the wonderfullness of these products (and I think they are pretty dang good), and all of their features (which, for all of my intents and purposes, are pretty robust) they really, really lack in product documentation.

[edit for your questions]
Yeah, I think the crystalizer is a personal preference sort of thing. I have mine set at 80%....but I'd like to hear what other people are preferring.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the CMSS-3D with a 5.1 setup. I like feeling enveloped by the music, instead of just a stereo sound in front of me. But that's for music. I dunno how it affects games, if at all.

To answer your first paragraph, yes, when I plug in my headphones, CMSS is turned on automatically and my 5.1 speaker set is muted. Here's what I did. I went into Entertainment mode, went to the main display, and entered the first icon which is titled "Speaker and Headphone". In there are two options underneath the header "When headphone jack is connected": "Automatically enable headphone settings" and "Automatically mute speakers". I check both of those. When I go back to Game mode, I do not see these options anywhere, but it still gives me the desired effects. I guess it's a global option that is only seen in the Entertainment mode right now.

As for what Creative software I installed, I did infact install everything. I didn't know what I'd want and what I didn't want, so I went with everything.

And I'll agree with the lack of documentation, although I'm sure it's all on the CD. I'm just too lazy to look .

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: blurredvision
To answer your first paragraph, yes, when I plug in my headphones, CMSS is turned on automatically and my 5.1 speaker set is muted. Here's what I did. I went into Entertainment mode, went to the main display, and entered the first icon which is titled "Speaker and Headphone". In there are two options underneath the header "When headphone jack is connected": "Automatically enable headphone settings" and "Automatically mute speakers". I check both of those. When I go back to Game mode, I do not see these options anywhere, but it still gives me the desired effects. I guess it's a global option that is only seen in the Entertainment mode right now.

As for what Creative software I installed, I did infact install everything. I didn't know what I'd want and what I didn't want, so I went with everything.

And I'll agree with the lack of documentation, although I'm sure it's all on the CD. I'm just too lazy to look .

Well, My CMSS-3D is tuend on and 5.1 muted as well. But what I mean is this:

Under "Speakers and Headphone selection" does it change to headphones? 'Cause you'll notice that, with headphones selected, the CMSS-3D control panel totally changed for headphones, and allows you to test the 3D-positioning.

I also thought maybe maybe it does switch to headphones, but doesn't tell you, but there is definitely NO 3D-positioning in BF2 without "headphones" specifically selected as your speaker-set. Try it out for yourself. Perhaps, for now, I'll leave headphones as the default for game-mode and 5.1 for entertainment. It's not too hard to change 'em if I need to, albeit an unneccessary annoyance which could be easily solved if Creative chooses to code it in an update.

If it does work for you, which version of the card did you get? XtremeMusic or Platinum (with the I/O Drive)? From reading their crappy "online documention manual" that come with the CD, the connector says it's proprietary (#6 in the diagram under "About Your Hardware-->Your Sound Blaster X-Fi audio card") Maybe that's the problem for me...I might return and upgrade to the platinum anyway since I may want to do some music creation with my keyboard (but nothing pro-enough to buy a the $400 version).

 

[ArneBjarne]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: ArneBjarne

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: mattburk
Performance increases, are YOU NUTS?
HIFI guys do not spend $400 on a card because of 1 more fps or 1% less cpu usage. It's all about the SOUND.
That?s why we put 10k+ into our HT speaker systems. I think the key point to the card is increased fidelity.
I do hope it sends a digital signal out that an AVR can understand and decode. Does anyone know if that is supported?

If you're talking about surround sound in digital format, then no, it doesn't have that.

Which is rather stupid especially since they make an external dts-encoder which takes 6 analogue inputs. How about putting the encoder on the card (or using uncompressed digital transfer to the external encoder eg. HDMI) so you don't have to go through a DA conversion immediately followed by an AD conversion?

They make another one too, just under the creative and not the soundblaster name.
http://creative.com/products/product.asp?category=4&subcategory=136&product=9468

Also you can use an old USB extigy as an external converter. No PC needed.

The DDTS-100 that you link to is a DEcoder not an ENcoder like the DTS-610

What I want is purely digital path to my amp where the sound isn't DA converted until it is inside the amp. That is what SoundStorm (DD5.1) and the C-Media chips deliver (DD5.1) (DD5.1/DTS5.1). The C-Media chips unfortunately only in software.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
Well, My CMSS-3D is tuend on and 5.1 muted as well. But what I mean is this:

Under "Speakers and Headphone selection" does it change to headphones? 'Cause you'll notice that, with headphones selected, the CMSS-3D control panel totally changed for headphones, and allows you to test the 3D-positioning.

I also thought maybe maybe it does switch to headphones, but doesn't tell you, but there is definitely NO 3D-positioning in BF2 without "headphones" specifically selected as your speaker-set. Try it out for yourself. Perhaps, for now, I'll leave headphones as the default for game-mode and 5.1 for entertainment. It's not too hard to change 'em if I need to, albeit an unneccessary annoyance which could be easily solved if Creative chooses to code it in an update.

If it does work for you, which version of the card did you get? XtremeMusic or Platinum (with the I/O Drive)? From reading their crappy "online documention manual" that come with the CD, the connector says it's proprietary (#6 in the diagram under "About Your Hardware-->Your Sound Blaster X-Fi audio card") Maybe that's the problem for me...I might return and upgrade to the platinum anyway since I may want to do some music creation with my keyboard (but nothing pro-enough to buy a the $400 version).

It does infact change from "5.1 Speakers" to "Headphones" when I plug in the headphones. I do have the Platinum version, and am using the front jack of the bay drive. In the Game mode panel, it will immediately switch to Headphones when I plug them in, and the CMSS-3D panel changes as well to enable CMSS-3DHeadphone, with options to change MacroFX and ElevationFilter. I also have the test, which is mightily impressive.

Sorry to hear it's not working for you, but maybe we've found the first difference between the $129 and $199 card.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
Well, My CMSS-3D is tuend on and 5.1 muted as well. But what I mean is this:

Under "Speakers and Headphone selection" does it change to headphones? 'Cause you'll notice that, with headphones selected, the CMSS-3D control panel totally changed for headphones, and allows you to test the 3D-positioning.

I also thought maybe maybe it does switch to headphones, but doesn't tell you, but there is definitely NO 3D-positioning in BF2 without "headphones" specifically selected as your speaker-set. Try it out for yourself. Perhaps, for now, I'll leave headphones as the default for game-mode and 5.1 for entertainment. It's not too hard to change 'em if I need to, albeit an unneccessary annoyance which could be easily solved if Creative chooses to code it in an update.

If it does work for you, which version of the card did you get? XtremeMusic or Platinum (with the I/O Drive)? From reading their crappy "online documention manual" that come with the CD, the connector says it's proprietary (#6 in the diagram under "About Your Hardware-->Your Sound Blaster X-Fi audio card") Maybe that's the problem for me...I might return and upgrade to the platinum anyway since I may want to do some music creation with my keyboard (but nothing pro-enough to buy a the $400 version).

It does infact change from "5.1 Speakers" to "Headphones" when I plug in the headphones. I do have the Platinum version, and am using the front jack of the bay drive. In the Game mode panel, it will immediately switch to Headphones when I plug them in, and the CMSS-3D panel changes as well to enable CMSS-3DHeadphone, with options to change MacroFX and ElevationFilter. I also have the test, which is mightily impressive.

Sorry to hear it's not working for you, but maybe we've found the first difference between the $129 and $199 card.

Yes perhaps. That's too bad. I'm going to first try allowing certain startup programs to run again and then try reinstalling everything. Elsewise, that'd probably be that "proprietary" difference right there.

[update]
Figured it out: one of the CT (Creative Tech) startups that I had disabled was the cause. It now works perfectly. I totally forgot I had disabled all the things I would have figured unneccessary for the sake of always keeping my system streamlined.

Thanks for your help, blurredvision, hopefully this will help other people with the same problem.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
[update]
Figured it out: one of the CT (Creative Tech) startups that I had disabled was the cause. It now works perfectly. I totally forgot I had disabled all the things I would have figured unneccessary for the sake of always keeping my system streamlined.

Thanks for your help, blurredvision, hopefully this will help other people with the same problem.

Good to hear. :thumbsup:

 

[AiponGkooja]

Is that I/O box the only difference between the regular and platinum versions? I saw them both at Best Buy today, and as far as I could tell they were the exact same thing except the I/O box.

 

[Googer]

The Platinum Card has better DAC's (if I recall correctly). I have the Basic ZS Version and It seems to funtion fine.

 

[Stangs55]

Originally posted by: Googer
The Platinum Card has better DAC's (if I recall correctly). I have the Basic ZS Version and It seems to funtion fine.

No. The Elite Pro is the only version w/the higher quality components.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Stangs55

Originally posted by: Googer
The Platinum Card has better DAC's (if I recall correctly). I have the Basic ZS Version and It seems to funtion fine.

No. The Elite Pro is the only version w/the higher quality components.

I thought he was talking about the Audigy ZS Line.


For the X-FI the differance is the Fatality and higher cards have the 64mb of ram on board for games.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: Stangs55

Originally posted by: Googer
The Platinum Card has better DAC's (if I recall correctly). I have the Basic ZS Version and It seems to funtion fine.

No. The Elite Pro is the only version w/the higher quality components.

I thought he was talking about the Audigy ZS Line.

For the X-FI the differance is the Fatality and higher cards have the 64mb of ram on board for games.

The XtremeMusic version comes with just the card.
The Platinum version comes with the card, the I/O box, the remote, and some extra software over the basic version.
The Fatality version comes with the card with 64MB of X-Ram on it, the I/O box, the remote, and the same software that comes with the Platinum version.
The Pro version comes with the card with 64MB of X-Ram, but with better quality DAC's, the remote, an external, more advanced I/O box, and even more software over all other versions.

 

[Skiguy411]

Guru3d has their review up:

http://www.guru3d.com/article/sound/246/

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Here's a repost of what I had to say about Guru3D:

It's piss-poor journalism to slam Tom's cut and paste review in the first paragraph, and then do the same thing yourself. What isn't SB-issue is pure fanboy. There is comparison to the unpopular VIA Envy 24 and Audigy 4 Pro (it slightly beats them in Guru's tests), but no comparison to the very popular Audigy2 ZS, most likely because the performance is similar. And that's from a "guru"?

As for the sound card itself, no thanks. I didn't plan on buying another Creative product, ever, and this does nothing to change my mind. The specs, well, we've seen them before, and they wound up in a class-action lawsuit. The prices are astronomical, $130 to $400! For $130, you get (still) NO SPDIF in/outs on the card itself, very dubious software (specifically they claim to restore lossy mp3's to their original sound quality, rediculous!), and more bloatware than you can shake a stick at. If you want SPDIF, it's located on the mildly reworked, and otherwise useless, Live Drive. SPDIF starts at $200.

Audiophiles and HTPC's are still best served by the Mystique 7.1

Creative misses the mark worse than ever, but Guru3D likes what they see. BS.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Skiguy411
Guru3d has their review up:

http://www.guru3d.com/article/sound/246/

BTW if you need really in-depth technical information please visit Tom's Hardware, they actually copied pretty much the entire whitepaper from Creative Labs on X-Fi and pretty much presented it as their own written article.

lol

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
Audiophiles and HTPC's are still best served by the Mystique 7.1

No they're not, not with the Mystique's inability to output bit-perfect SPDIF and DD Live which has no compelling benefits for a HTPC or an audiophile.

 

[Skiguy411]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
Here's a repost of what I had to say about Guru3D:

It's piss-poor journalism to slam Tom's cut and paste review in the first paragraph, and then do the same thing yourself. What isn't SB-issue is pure fanboy. There is comparison to the unpopular VIA Envy 24 and Audigy 4 Pro (it slightly beats them in Guru's tests), but no comparison to the very popular Audigy2 ZS, most likely because the performance is similar. And that's from a "guru"?

As for the sound card itself, no thanks. I didn't plan on buying another Creative product, ever, and this does nothing to change my mind. The specs, well, we've seen them before, and they wound up in a class-action lawsuit. The prices are astronomical, $130 to $400! For $130, you get (still) NO SPDIF in/outs on the card itself, very dubious software (specifically they claim to restore lossy mp3's to their original sound quality, rediculous!), and more bloatware than you can shake a stick at. If you want SPDIF, it's located on the mildly reworked, and otherwise useless, Live Drive. SPDIF starts at $200.

Audiophiles and HTPC's are still best served by the Mystique 7.1

Creative misses the mark worse than ever, but Guru3D likes what they see. BS.

Have you heard the card? Have you played around with it?

 

[The Boston Dangler]

As an audiophile, I believe I would be best served by:

1.A card with actual SPDIF coax and optical outs built into the card, with optional inputs

2.No bloatware

3.Frequent and useful driver updates

4.Yes, it does DD live, I refer you to the website, lower left

My Audigy 2 ZS Platinum does none of this, with twice the equipment, at twice the price. I stand by my post.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

What is it you disagree with?

The first paragraph, where I call them hypocrites?

The specs they claimed before?

The prices?

The number of SPDIF outs?

The lossy nature of mp3?

SB's notorious bloat?

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
As an audiophile, I believe I would be best served by:

1.A card with actual SPDIF coax and optical outs built into the card, with optional inputs

The Creative digital output is compatible with coaxial inputs using a simple adapter or cable.

4.Yes, it does DD live, I refer you to the website, lower left

For audiophiles, DDL reduces audio quality, and for HT, movie DVDs are already pre-encoded. There's no real benefit for DDL for these users. Plus I've seen no evidence for the Mystique to be capable of supporting bit-perfect SPDIF output, I haven't seen any mention of success of playing DTS audio CDs, one of the big tests of bit-perfectness.

My Audigy 2 ZS Platinum does none of this, with twice the equipment, at twice the price. I stand by my post.

And a $50 A2 7.1 Value would be significantly better in games, and supports bit-perfect SPDIF for superior audio quality provided you had a decent HT system.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

SPDIF is only on the Live Drive. The coax digital output on the card is NOT SPDIF compliant, and I'm fortunate my reciever accepts it. The Live Drive is available as part of the A2ZS Platinum, $176.00

 

[fstime]

I have an Audigy 2 ZS.

I am interested in the cheapest X-Fi model,

No gaming, I dont need fps jumps, I just want to know if this card is worth the jump.

All I care about is the sound and the features, and good features.

Stero surround is a good feature, CMSS sucks.

Klipsch 5.1 Ultras,

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
SPDIF is only on the Live Drive. The coax digital output on the card is NOT SPDIF compliant,

Of course it is, which is why it works with every receiver on the market and can pass through PCM audio, encoded DD or DTS.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: Accord99

Originally posted by: The Boston Dangler
SPDIF is only on the Live Drive. The coax digital output on the card is NOT SPDIF compliant,

Of course it is, which is why it works with every receiver on the market and can pass through PCM audio, encoded DD or DTS.

This is copied from the Creative forum, posted by a moderator.

Creative's 4-pole mini-jack & Digital DIN
You can only get the full use out of this connection when used between Creative Sound Blasters and compatible Creative speaker systems. It is the digital equivalent of the analogue connections, but instead of using 3 stereo sockets, you use just one digital socket. There are 4 conducting connections in the socket (unlike coax which has two) so there are enough connections to carry 3 different digital stereo signals (front R/L, rear R/L and Sub/Centre). You will probably require a 4-pole mini-jack > DIN converter to connect your Creative speakers to this socket. Using this connection will allow you to get surround from games (unlike SPDIF). However the digital DIN input on some Creative speakers can't receive AC3/DTS data, so you may still require an optical/coax connection.

N.B. This digital socket on the Sound Blaster cards doubles as the digital coax output. If you don't have digital DIN, you can use a mono or stereo mini-jack > RCA converter to connect to the coax input on your speakers, as the front R/L or AC3/DTS signals are sent through the tip of the plug.



Creative repeatedly refers to the connections on the Live Drive as SPDIF, but NEVER refers to the plug on the card as SPDIF, it is Digital Out.

 

[bozack]

I still want to see more reviews of this before I commit to anything...the prices they are asking are insane for this card and most of the reviews seem of the pole smoking variety.