Creative X-Fi

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: bozack
Pariah do you care to quantify your statement of:

If you're at all interesting in gaming, it's the X-Fi bar none by a mile.

I mean I read the reviews, looked at the charts and while there is a notable performance improvement with the X-FI is it really enough to justify the IMHO massive price differential between the older Audigy cards and or whatever else is out there??

...

is the low end X-Fi really worth 3X that of the ZS in terms of performance and sound for games??

The person who posed the question said:

I finally ended up just sucking it up and buying an Audigy 2 ZS. I'm relatively happy with the card but I"m still in search of something that offers up more.

So given that statement (i.e. he is not happy with the Audigy2 ZS), I would think that Pariah has made a pretty fair assessment. The original poster mentioned nothing of money or value, merely that he wished for more than his A2ZS could provide. If he is gaming, then indeed the X-Fi is the only option that can provide everything the A2ZS can and more. Other options all give something up in the gaming side in order to provide more on the audio quality side.

Honestly, I feel pretty much the same way you do about the values of the X-Fi vs. the A2ZS and the pricing involved, but I don't think that was really at question here. You seem to have flown off the handle on some tangent when Pariah was pretty well focused on answering a specific question.

 

[jonmcguffin]

Originally posted by: Pariah
Depends on your usage jonmcguffin. If you're at all interesting in gaming, it's the X-Fi bar none by a mile. If you have no interest in gaming and just want the highest quality stereo output for music, you'll be looking at something like the LynxTWO which is true audiophile grade and will run you about $1000. If you're on a more constrained budget (sub $200), then the lowend X-Fi appears to be the at the top of the heap right now going by the numbers (the tested numbers, not the spec sheets), especially if you want DVD-A capability as Creative is still the only PC solution. Something in the same range that doesn't have all the bells and whistles the X-Fi has, would be the E-MU 1212, which ironically enough, is a Creative subsidary and the company largely responsible for the development of the X-Fi architecture.

Thanks for the info... Not aware of any products that use the E-MU 1212 but I'll hunt around.

Jon

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Concillian
So given that statement (i.e. he is not happy with the Audigy2 ZS), I would think that Pariah has made a pretty fair assessment. The original poster mentioned nothing of money or value, merely that he wished for more than his A2ZS could provide. If he is gaming, then indeed the X-Fi is the only option that can provide everything the A2ZS can and more. Other options all give something up in the gaming side in order to provide more on the audio quality side.

Honestly, I feel pretty much the same way you do about the values of the X-Fi vs. the A2ZS and the pricing involved, but I don't think that was really at question here. You seem to have flown off the handle on some tangent when Pariah was pretty well focused on answering a specific question.

I only flew off the handle because of all the different thoughts brought up in this post, not specifically in response to Pariah...

However I am still curious as to just how much "more" the X-Fi offers and at what cost...does the lower cost/end Music edition really offer that much more than the ZS or does one really have to lock onto the fatal1ty board for gaming and stay focused there...if the music card is enough to suffice then that isn't a horrible jump in price, however if serious gamers should only consider the Fatal1ty board then I truly wonder if the gains are justified in the cost as that is a major hike in price...

 

[jonmcguffin]

Originally posted by: rstrohkirch
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/multimedia/creative-x-fi.html

Better review then most you'll see

This is DEFINATELY the best review I've yet to see on the net so far, I just wish they had completed it. Don't often see many reviews that say "more to come"

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: bozack
I only flew off the handle because of all the different thoughts brought up in this post, not specifically in response to Pariah...

However I am still curious as to just how much "more" the X-Fi offers and at what cost...does the lower cost/end Music edition really offer that much more than the ZS or does one really have to lock onto the fatal1ty board for gaming and stay focused there...if the music card is enough to suffice then that isn't a horrible jump in price, however if serious gamers should only consider the Fatal1ty board then I truly wonder if the gains are justified in the cost as that is a major hike in price...

I figure that....If you have an Audigy1 or 2, then it's probably not worth the upgrade. If you're using onboard or the shoddy and poorly supported SBLive! 24-bit (like I was, until I took it out and used onboard) then upgrading to the XtremeMusic version is definitely worth it.

I can't say whether it's worth an upgrade from something like a TBSC, or Chaintech 7.1, etc...it'll probably just depend on your use. I, for one, game and listen to music....and the A2ZS didn't go on sale at buy.com until a day or two after I bought the X-Fi, giving it time to impress me enough to keep it.

I highly doubt that the Fatal1ty board will offer all that much over the XtremeMusic for most people, and nothing over the Platinum (for the few people who actually will use the I/O Drive). The Pro version is its own thing with the better DACs/ADCs, breakout board, retarded-high price, etc... I just don't see any games taking a huge advantage of the Xram...at least probably not until Creative is out with their next line of soundcards anyway.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
I figure that....If you have an Audigy1 or 2, then it's probably not worth the upgrade. If you're using onboard or the shoddy and poorly supported SBLive! 24-bit (like I was, until I took it out and used onboard) then upgrading to the XtremeMusic version is definitely worth it.

I can't say whether it's worth an upgrade from something like a TBSC, or Chaintech 7.1, etc...it'll probably just depend on your use. I, for one, game and listen to music....and the A2ZS didn't go on sale at buy.com until a day or two after I bought the X-Fi, giving it time to impress me enough to keep it.

I highly doubt that the Fatal1ty board will offer all that much over the XtremeMusic for most people, and nothing over the Platinum (for the few people who actually will use the I/O Drive). The Pro version is its own thing with the better DACs/ADCs, breakout board, retarded-high price, etc... I just don't see any games taking a huge advantage of the Xram...at least probably not until Creative is out with their next line of soundcards anyway.

Well the buy.com deal for the ZS was too good for me to pass up as I needed something better than the onboard and just couldn't stomach the price of the music...at $40 I can use it for a year and then upgrade if there is a need.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: jonmcguffin

Originally posted by: Pariah
Depends on your usage jonmcguffin. If you're at all interesting in gaming, it's the X-Fi bar none by a mile. If you have no interest in gaming and just want the highest quality stereo output for music, you'll be looking at something like the LynxTWO which is true audiophile grade and will run you about $1000. If you're on a more constrained budget (sub $200), then the lowend X-Fi appears to be the at the top of the heap right now going by the numbers (the tested numbers, not the spec sheets), especially if you want DVD-A capability as Creative is still the only PC solution. Something in the same range that doesn't have all the bells and whistles the X-Fi has, would be the E-MU 1212, which ironically enough, is a Creative subsidary and the company largely responsible for the development of the X-Fi architecture.

Thanks for the info... Not aware of any products that use the E-MU 1212 but I'll hunt around.

Jon

Nothing uses the E-MU 1212. E-MU is the company that makes the card which is called a 1212M. Here is the product page:

E-MU® 1212M Digital Audio System

Considering this card is about $200, the X-Fi Platinum is a much better value for the dollar. I just mentioned the 1212 as a card that is probably somewhere in the same audio quality range as the X-Fi, I wasn't actually recommending it, unless you plan on recording music it has no feature advantages vs the X-Fi, and is missing a whole lot that the X-Fi has.

You're not going to find a whole lot of audio quality variance between the best cards in the $200 and under category especially if you don't have a very nice speaker set/headphones. The choice comes down to usage, some may be slightly better for stereo output, some might be slightly better for recording, while Creative is the undisputed gaming king.

If all you're looking for is better music output, with no concern for other features, unless you are really serious about your audio quality, I wouldn't bother buying anything at the consumer level to upgrade a A2ZS. The A2ZS is by no means the end all for audio quality, but the audible improvement from another option in the price range wouldn't justify the cost.

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: jonmcguffin

Originally posted by: rstrohkirch
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/multimedia/creative-x-fi.html

Better review then most you'll see

This is DEFINATELY the best review I've yet to see on the net so far, I just wish they had completed it. Don't often see many reviews that say "more to come"

My guess is that Creative gave people their press papers at the same time as cards were available and they didn't give any cards early to the press. This is why all the reviews you see have some VERY similar charts (like identical) and seem, as one poster put it 'of the pole smoking variety'.

I suspect there was no time to do actual testing, and I assume that is also why AT hasn't done anything yet either. So they published wht they could glean from the press documents, then said more to come for when they can actually do some of the testing.

 

[AiponGkooja]

http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/x-fi/ut2004-128.png

I guess that's one way to make the improvement look impressive...
Graphs that don't start at 0 piss me off.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: AiponGkooja
http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/x-fi/ut2004-128.png

I guess that's one way to make the improvement look impressive...
Graphs that don't start at 0 piss me off.

Ya, that little doozy is #4 on my bitch list from June.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: AiponGkooja
http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/x-fi/ut2004-128.png

I guess that's one way to make the improvement look impressive...
Graphs that don't start at 0 piss me off.

Ya, that little doozy is #4 on my http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=162603 from June.

link isn't working for me

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: AiponGkooja
http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/x-fi/ut2004-128.png

I guess that's one way to make the improvement look impressive...
Graphs that don't start at 0 piss me off.

Ya, that little doozy is #4 on my http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=162603 from June.

link isn't working for me

Fixed. Fusetalk is the only forum package I use that does name and then link instead of the other way around.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
I figure that....If you have an Audigy1 or 2, then it's probably not worth the upgrade. If you're using onboard or the shoddy and poorly supported SBLive! 24-bit (like I was, until I took it out and used onboard) then upgrading to the XtremeMusic version is definitely worth it.

I can't say whether it's worth an upgrade from something like a TBSC, or Chaintech 7.1, etc...it'll probably just depend on your use. I, for one, game and listen to music....and the A2ZS didn't go on sale at buy.com until a day or two after I bought the X-Fi, giving it time to impress me enough to keep it.

I highly doubt that the Fatal1ty board will offer all that much over the XtremeMusic for most people, and nothing over the Platinum (for the few people who actually will use the I/O Drive). The Pro version is its own thing with the better DACs/ADCs, breakout board, retarded-high price, etc... I just don't see any games taking a huge advantage of the Xram...at least probably not until Creative is out with their next line of soundcards anyway.

Well the buy.com deal for the ZS was too good for me to pass up as I needed something better than the onboard and just couldn't stomach the price of the music...at $40 I can use it for a year and then upgrade if there is a need.

No doubt. If the A2ZS deal had come around BEFORE I bought the thing I would have jumped and never looked back. As is, I'm happy.

 

[blurredvision]

The only reason I splurged on the $200 Platinum is because I haven't bought a sound card in years (7 I think?), and have been using on-board sound for about 5 years. If I already had a ZS, I most likely wouldn't had upgraded. But, I was able to use a friend's ZS for a couple of weeks a month or two ago, and it sounded MUCH better, so instead of upgrading to the ZS, I just waited a couple of months and grabbed an X-Fi.

I'm happy with my purchase.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: AiponGkooja
http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/x-fi/ut2004-128.png

I guess that's one way to make the improvement look impressive...
Graphs that don't start at 0 piss me off.

Ya, that little doozy is #4 on my http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=162603 from June.

link isn't working for me

Fixed. Fusetalk is the only forum package I use that does name and then link instead of the other way around.

I tried putting just the link in too, I get http://forums.anandtech.com/fterror.aspx?fterrorcode=102

 

[The Boston Dangler]

omg another thread that refuses to die.

Question: Does anyone actually use the Live Drive? Because you want to, or have to?

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: AiponGkooja
http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/x-fi/ut2004-128.png

I guess that's one way to make the improvement look impressive...
Graphs that don't start at 0 piss me off.

Ya, that little doozy is #4 on my http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=162603 from June.

link isn't working for me

Fixed. Fusetalk is the only forum package I use that does name and then link instead of the other way around.

I tried putting just the link in too, I get http://forums.anandtech.com/fterror.aspx?fterrorcode=102

I fixed it now, I swear.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: AiponGkooja
http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/x-fi/ut2004-128.png

I guess that's one way to make the improvement look impressive...
Graphs that don't start at 0 piss me off.

Ya, that little doozy is #4 on my http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=162603 from June.

link isn't working for me

Fixed. Fusetalk is the only forum package I use that does name and then link instead of the other way around.

I tried putting just the link in too, I get http://forums.anandtech.com/fterror.aspx?fterrorcode=102

I fixed it now, I swear.

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: AiponGkooja
http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/creative/x-fi/ut2004-128.png

I guess that's one way to make the improvement look impressive...
Graphs that don't start at 0 piss me off.

Ya, that little doozy is #4 on my bitch list from June.

:thumbsup:

 

[newParadigm]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Some1ne

Didn't impress me from those two benchmarks they showed

http://www.tomshardware.com/consumer/20050818/creative_x-fi-21.html

I think the premise of that benchmark is flawed...who in their right mind would buy a sound card to try and increase their gaming FPS? That's what a new video card is for...the increase you'll see from any new sound card, even one that's "optimized" to improve FPS, pales in comparison to what a new graphics card will do.

That's what I say to just about everyone who's adding a soundcard to increase their gaming performance, yet there's a dozen people ready to argue that it's a good idea.

I agree 100% that if you're looking for a gaming performance boost, the soundcard is not where to look... and if you're videocard limited to start with, then is it going to make any difference at all?

I wish there were more benchmarks out there with info about this compared to the inundation we get of CPU/Videocard benchmarks.

Well, I think I'm coming off as really anti-X-fi, which I wouldn't call myself yet. Maybe the drivers aren't there yet, or there's something more to warrant spending so much on the cards that I haven't seen yet. The headphone stuff seems like the best reson to get one so far. I just hate to think about the number of people that are going to be asking about system builds where they have a Fatal1ty X-Fi and a Logitech X-530 set for their sound system.

knowing Creative, they aren't and probobly never will be.....

 

[Acanthus]

The only way i can see this card gaining support is if EAX5 sees strong increases from the onboard memory.

 

[AiponGkooja]

Is there any documentation of where to plug in an headphone jack from the case onto the X-fi card? The one from my case isn't a nice plug; it has about 7 little one pin connectors that you have to put all in the right spot, so I need a good diagram of what each plug is on the X-Fi ExtremeMusic edition card.

Thanks to anyone who can find this information, I will keep looking also.
Aip

Or I guess documentation of the I/O drive plug for the platinum or > would do just as well. Can find out where to put my mic plugs also.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

You can't plug the front panel headphone or mic jacks into the card. Creative would rather you buy the more expensive version with the Live Drive.

Maybe Accord99 or Pariah could explain how this makes SB such excellent products?

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: AiponGkooja
Is there any documentation of where to plug in an headphone jack from the case onto the X-fi card? The one from my case isn't a nice plug; it has about 7 little one pin connectors that you have to put all in the right spot, so I need a good diagram of what each plug is on the X-Fi ExtremeMusic edition card.

Thanks to anyone who can find this information, I will keep looking also.
Aip

Or I guess documentation of the I/O drive plug for the platinum or > would do just as well. Can find out where to put my mic plugs also.

You can't. The internal connections on the X-Fi and Audigy are all proprietary digital for use with the Live Drive that comes with the respective card.

Edit: Doh, beaten to it.

PS Boston: No trolling please

 

[The Boston Dangler]

I apologize, to AT only

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: AiponGkooja
Is there any documentation of where to plug in an headphone jack from the case onto the X-fi card? The one from my case isn't a nice plug; it has about 7 little one pin connectors that you have to put all in the right spot, so I need a good diagram of what each plug is on the X-Fi ExtremeMusic edition card.

Thanks to anyone who can find this information, I will keep looking also.
Aip

Or I guess documentation of the I/O drive plug for the platinum or > would do just as well. Can find out where to put my mic plugs also.

I don't know about the 7 pin connector, but you can't connect any analog device directly to the drive bay connector because as mentioned above, all the signals are digital. Unlike mentioned above, they are not proprietary, but standard multiple SPDIF connectors. For obvious common sense reasons all audio is digitally transmitted to the drive bay before being converted to analog at the last possible stage before output, or converted to digital for analog input before being sent to the sound card, by the DAC/ADC on the drive bay.