Crossfire limited to 16X12 resolution!

[Pabster]

:thumbsdown: with Crossfire.

 

[g3pro]

Day by day, I lose hope in ATi. I was going to update my rig this generation with a crossfire setup, but I'm not going to do it any more. What's the point of doing only 1600x1200??

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: biostud

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
I still think SLI is an extremely niche idea, so the ATI version of Rollo will be peeing his pants at this news, but for the most part it's not something I'm going to lose sleep over, or most users.

Would that person be The A(n)ti-Rollo?

:beer:

fixed

hahah, nice! It almost seems to carry a hidden message. A[nV]TI-Rollo :beer:

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
I don't know, in order for that to be true, you'd have to ignore the Voodoo 4/5/6 series, Rage MAXX, everything produced by XGI, etc...

Hey! I loved the MAXX, flashing/missing textures and all. It was a VERY cool piece of hardware, it gets an "A" for effort.

I'd give them a B for effort and an F for execution. It was a cool card, but it had all of those kinds of 'old school' video card problems like: 'strange bug makes 1280X1024 get 0fps (the main resolution it was supposed to compete at) in certain games' .

Then there were, as you pointed out, lots of texture problems.

On another note, though, that was probably the shortest dual-GPU (in terms of physical length) made by either ATI or Nvidia, so kudos to them for that .

Originally posted by: g3pro
Day by day, I lose hope in ATi. I was going to update my rig this generation with a crossfire setup, but I'm not going to do it any more. What's the point of doing only 1600x1200??

You didn't lose hope in ATI, g3pro, you never had any faith in them to begin with. I've read your post history... .

 

[Marsumane]

I find this to be quite informative and likely to be true. I'm hoping for a good r520 showing to keep competition strong. ATI needs something solid and reliable out before nv's head gets too big. I have faith in the company, just i'm not so sure why they've been messing up quite so much lately.

 

[apoppin]

From the inq

This Silicon Image SiI 1161 chip is gathering both signals as sending it to your display.

It turns out that this chip works at 165MHz and if you do some very complex maths you can find out that this chip can support 1600x1200 resolution at maximal 60 Hz. By any standards 60Hz is not enough for a good refresh rate on a CRT while it's enough for LCDs due to its different way of working.

We also learned that this chip will be able to do 1280x1024 at 85 Hz and you can play with this equation on this very helpful site. we discovered that for 1600x1200 at 75 Hz you need at least 202.5 MHz clocked chip while for 1600x1200 at 85 Hz you need the chip that works at 229.5 MHz.

To make things clearer, this Silicon image chip is actually a pipe between one GPU to another but the only problem is that chip that ATI used had to narrow bandwidth.

I asked myself why ATI didn?t use some other chips as it took me a few minutes to find out that 1172 chip can work at 225 MHz which would be enough for 1600x1200 at 75 MHz and would satisfy the demands. It turns out that SiI 1172 is a transmitter chip and needs to be paired with SiI 1171 receiver chip. This would add some additional cost to Crossfire solution and ATI would need to alter two cards as Slave card would need to have 1171 receiver chip. This was not something that ATI want to do and it didn?t had any other solution than to use SiI 1161 chip and suffer from its limitations. Nvidia solved this problem with the well known SLI connector which connects two I/O ports built into GPUs. This small SLI connector provides 400 MHz of pixel refresh bandwidth and offers more than twice of what Silicon image can do. We believe that ATI will move to this approach as soon as it manages but this wont happened that soon. R520 generation will suffer from same Dual VPU limitations. At the time we wrote our first pieces about ATI Crossfire almost nine months ago Nvidia told us that you can not make SLI without connecting two cards together and this turned to be complete truth. ATI just did it their way.

We believe that ATI will try to hide behind the fact that LCD market is growing and that you don?t need more than 60 Hz but for gaming you need either 8 ms or even 4 ms response time and those displays will cost you some serious money. The cheapest 8 ms display that I could find in Austria is Acer AL1914ms-2, 19", 1280x1024 and this baby will cost you something over ?300. If you want to go real pro you need 4 ms and Samsung SyncMaster 930BF, 19", 1280x1024" display will cost you at least ?418.

We believe that this is going to be a big deal for ATI. Some ATI partners believed that we got the maths wrong but ATI officially said that for this generation of Crossfire, ATI wanted to focus on features that gamers use the most. ATI suggests that 99.9 per cent of gamers are not using 1600x1200 and believes it plays on lower resolutions.

Doesn't matter to me . . . i am still looking for my last AGP high-end solution

Crossfire does 1600x1200@60 or 1920x1200@52

we managed to find screenshots from the official Crossfire platform. This chipset and the master card edition X850 XT PE cards scheduled for Monday the 26th launch and we managed to get some shots of the machine actually running.

It turns out that you cannot set higher refresh rate than 1600x1200 at 60Hz - we were right about that. However, you will be able to use 1920x1200 but you will be limited to 52Hz only. Bothc cases are fine for all TFT users as 60Hz on those displays by some miracle looks very good.

This still will be insuficcient for millions of people who want to own Crossfire and have a good old but big and great CRT display. I don't plan to throw away my 22-inch CRT capable of 2048x1536 anytime soon and on these displays you kind of want to play at 1600x1200. On an office 19-inch TFT I simply cannot go more than native resolution of 1280x1024 at 60Hz.

For new PC users, I believe that ATI will educate its customers to sell those super high end PCs with brand new TFT and that kind of makes sense, but the upgrade market might suffer from this limitation. Here are the pictures of the Crossfire driver on two X850 XT PR cards in action

Pics to prove it from the link.

 

[vision33r]

R.I.P. Crossfire...

 

[Genx87]

ATI suggests that 99.9 per cent of gamers are not using 1600x1200 and believes it plays on lower resolutions.

lmao 99.9% of the population wont use xFire. The .1% that does probably plays at 1600X1200 or higher.

Talk about a botched job in marketing.

 

[dguy6789]

This, as well as the disapointment that was R520, All I can say is that I see a very dark future for ATi.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
This, as well as the disapointment that was R520, All I can say is that I see a very dark future for ATi.

Not to jump to conclusions or anything...

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
This, as well as the disapointment that was R520, All I can say is that I see a very dark future for ATi.

That depends on whether or not the R520 uses the same SiL 1161 chip that's present on the X8-series Master cards. I would highly doubt it as a single R520 is most likely going to be CPU limited at 1600x1200 and lower. So adding a 2nd R520 in the hopes of higher performance at those resolutions would be futile.

 

[rbV5]

Pics to prove it from the link

? It proves that X850 can do 1900x1200@52Hz via single link DVI to a digital flat panel like they always have. Looks like a standard Catalyst screenshot other than the "crossfire" on the bottom of the tree and property sheet.

 

[OvErHeAtInG]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024

Originally posted by: dguy6789
This, as well as the disapointment that was R520, All I can say is that I see a very dark future for ATi.

Not to jump to conclusions or anything...

Exactly. WAS R520? I am at a loss for words.....

I have to say this is weird as hell, IF true. On the other hand, I could see some of the people at ATI thinking that everyone games only on LCD's at which point 60Hz is what you run anyway. BUT if that were the case, they would have included at least the ability to run 1920*1200, since that's what high-end LCD gaming is all about.

 

[imported_X]

Why the hell would someone invest in a dual card setup and play at less than 1600x1200? One disappointment to the next with ATI these past few months.

 

[JonnyBlaze]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Hacp
To all you ATI guys out there, don't feed the trolling.

I wouldn't call this "trolling".

I think anyone even half considering this needs to be made aware of these huge limitations?

true. i have a 9800pro and have been playing games at 16x12@85hz for a long time now. granted i cant play all the new ones at that res but if im paying a ton of money for new cards they better blow my 16x12 out of the water.

i already figured my next card would be nvidia anyways. i guess i was right.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Crossfire does 1600x1200@60 or 1920x1200@52

we managed to find screenshots from the official Crossfire platform. This chipset and the master card edition X850 XT PE cards scheduled for Monday the 26th launch and we managed to get some shots of the machine actually running.

It turns out that you cannot set higher refresh rate than 1600x1200 at 60Hz - we were right about that. However, you will be able to use 1920x1200 but you will be limited to 52Hz only. Both cases are fine for all TFT users as 60Hz on those displays by some miracle looks very good.

Running your LCD at non-native refresh rate (e.g. 52Hz @ 1920x1200) is strongly against the manufacturers' recommendation and will permanently damage your LCD screen in the long run.

:thumbsdown:

 

[JonnyBlaze]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: apoppin
Crossfire does 1600x1200@60 or 1920x1200@52

we managed to find screenshots from the official Crossfire platform. This chipset and the master card edition X850 XT PE cards scheduled for Monday the 26th launch and we managed to get some shots of the machine actually running.

It turns out that you cannot set higher refresh rate than 1600x1200 at 60Hz - we were right about that. However, you will be able to use 1920x1200 but you will be limited to 52Hz only. Both cases are fine for all TFT users as 60Hz on those displays by some miracle looks very good.

Running your LCD at non-native refresh rate (e.g. 52Hz @ 1920x1200) is strongly against the manufacturers' recommendation and will permanently damage your LCD screen in the long run.

:thumbsdown:

where did you read this? i thought the refresh rate only effected fps if your using vsync. why would it hurt the monitor?

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: JonnyBlazewhere did you read this? i thought the refresh rate only effected

fps if your using vsync. why would it hurt the monitor?

LCD MONITORS ONLY: under XP Admin account -> Display Properties -> Settings -> Advanced -> Monitor -> UNCHECK hide modes that this monitor cannot display -> 'Apply' button -> select screen refresh rate to non-native* (e.g. 50Hz) -> 'Apply' button -> try playing a game for 20 min

Warning under 'Display Properties -> Settings -> Advanced -> Monitor': Clearing this check box allows you to select display modes that this monitor cannot display correctly. This may lead to an unusual display and/or damaged hardware.

* perhaps possible with plug and play monitor driver only

The result speaks for itself :thumbsdown:

 

[Turtle 1]

Ya it does look bad doesn't it . Dam the worlds coming to an end . Oh wait ! Where can I buy 1 of these boards right now ? Can't there not out.
Lets get into my time machine Flash back to SLI release what it played 10 games. After a year it still doesn't play some games and a few games it does nothing.

Here's an idea lets wait for the release. Many people won't care anyway as 60hz on their 19" LCD's works just fine.


The game I am most interested in is F.E.A.R. and many people really like this game so all is not lost . Still because of the Vista release in a year I won't be spending money on anything till a WGF 2.0 compliant GPU is released and thats the message we should be telling people. Both nvidia and ATI have nothing out that complies right now.
So to me all the present cards are junk. including R520 05 X1800Xt what ever.

Most normal people don't run out and buy the latest greatest . We seem to lose site of that fact in these forums. Sure most the posters here are Gaming nerds or PC buffs. But were only 1/10 of 1 % of the market.
That being said put the message out to the performance crowd that upgrades every 2 or three years.
Right now if your honest with yourself and all others concerned that message should be. DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM ANY BODY RIGHT NOW IF YOUR INTO IT FOR THE LONG HAUL UNTIL NVIDIA AND ATI HAVE CARDS OUT THAT SUPPORT SM4 AND ARE WGF 2.0 COMPLIANT. Thats the bottom line not very many people out there like Rollo

 

[jasonja]

Some LCDs run at 50hz natively, regardless of what your setup in your display properties. My old Thinkpad T23 laptop and many of the Thinkpads I worked on run at 50hz for the build in LCD.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: jasonja
Some LCDs run at 50hz natively, regardless of what your setup in your display properties. My old Thinkpad T23 laptop and many of the Thinkpads I worked on run at 50hz for the build in LCD.

What does notebooks have to do with ATI Crossfire? Please enlighten us, which recent (2000-2005 models) LCDs (NOT notebooks) that has 50Hz native refresh rate

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
Ya it does look bad doesn't it . Dam the worlds coming to an end . Oh wait ! Where can I buy 1 of these boards right now ? Can't there not out.
Lets get into my time machine Flash back to SLI release what it played 10 games. After a year it still doesn't play some games and a few games it does nothing.

Here's an idea lets wait for the release. Many people won't care anyway as 60hz on their 19" LCD's works just fine.

I didn't know we all had 19" LCDs? I have a 22" CRT?

It's never been the case that SLI played 10 games. You're confusing ""Having a tested profile" with "Enhancing a game". You've always been able to use SLI with almost any game, the ones it doesn't help speed wise are CPU limited and can benefit from SLI AA.

 

[Turtle 1]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
Ya it does look bad doesn't it . Dam the worlds coming to an end . Oh wait ! Where can I buy 1 of these boards right now ? Can't there not out.
Lets get into my time machine Flash back to SLI release what it played 10 games. After a year it still doesn't play some games and a few games it does nothing.

Here's an idea lets wait for the release. Many people won't care anyway as 60hz on their 19" LCD's works just fine.

I didn't know we all had 19" LCDs? I have a 22" CRT?

It's never been the case that SLI played 10 games. You're confusing ""Having a tested profile" with "Enhancing a game". You've always been able to use SLI with almost any game, the ones it doesn't help speed wise are CPU limited and can benefit from SLI AA.

You are in denial man when sli was released it did not play a lot of games . There are still titles today it dont play. There are also titles it does nothing for as proved inthe benchies . and it has nothing to do with CPU bottleneck . Becareful now Rollo I post links so fast it will make your head spin.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
Ya it does look bad doesn't it . Dam the worlds coming to an end . Oh wait ! Where can I buy 1 of these boards right now ? Can't there not out.
Lets get into my time machine Flash back to SLI release what it played 10 games. After a year it still doesn't play some games and a few games it does nothing.

Here's an idea lets wait for the release. Many people won't care anyway as 60hz on their 19" LCD's works just fine.

I didn't know we all had 19" LCDs? I have a 22" CRT?

It's never been the case that SLI played 10 games. You're confusing ""Having a tested profile" with "Enhancing a game". You've always been able to use SLI with almost any game, the ones it doesn't help speed wise are CPU limited and can benefit from SLI AA.

quite right

SLI works with almost any game, if a games got a profile all that means is its been tested to see which mode is best.

and sli is enthusiast level, and i would hope most enthusiasts know how to open the NV control panel and carry out the simple task of making a profile if they so wished

and of course it does nothing in a handfull of games because of little thing called cpu limitation. ie UT games are generally known to be CPU limited. when thats the case you have the option to cream single card solutions by going higher with the resolution, and enabling serious amounts of AA and AF such as SLI AA

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Turtle 1

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
Ya it does look bad doesn't it . Dam the worlds coming to an end . Oh wait ! Where can I buy 1 of these boards right now ? Can't there not out.
Lets get into my time machine Flash back to SLI release what it played 10 games. After a year it still doesn't play some games and a few games it does nothing.

Here's an idea lets wait for the release. Many people won't care anyway as 60hz on their 19" LCD's works just fine.

I didn't know we all had 19" LCDs? I have a 22" CRT?

It's never been the case that SLI played 10 games. You're confusing ""Having a tested profile" with "Enhancing a game". You've always been able to use SLI with almost any game, the ones it doesn't help speed wise are CPU limited and can benefit from SLI AA.

You are in denial man when sli was released it did not play a lot of games . There are still titles today it dont play. There are also titles it does nothing for as proved inthe benchies . and it has nothing to do with CPU bottleneck . Becareful now Rollo I post links so fast it will make your head spin.

fire away man

 

[Turtle 1]

Ok here's the first one. I not going to point out which games. Take the Time to read and you will find the ones I am talking about. This is by far the best GPU review I have ever seen.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/2005-17gpu.html

Now beings how we was talking about the release of sli here is the best review I read on the SlI release . Page 14 is were your guys denial begins. Give Crossfire a break Sli Kinda sucked out of the gate.
Page 14 is a good place to start . Read the whole thing if you want a refresher.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gf6800u-sli.html