Crossfire limited to 16X12 resolution!

[brokenpc]

Originally posted by: brokenpc

Originally posted by: amdnVuser
Inquirer Article: Crossfire does 1600x1200@60 or 1920x1200@52 . This is getting a little more interesting. It still sucks for high res CRT owners, though. (Nothing new, just putting in my 2 cents).

Yeah, that was the article Wreckage and I were discussing. Ok, I'll go into some details on what I have a problem with before I go to bed.

First of all, there is no evidence in the actual report that would suggest that there is an actual limitation. The screenshot showing 1920x1200 at 52Hz doesn't show the other options for refresh rates.

My major concern is not with this article but the one it follows up.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26198

That article suggests a number of issues that show they are letting their imaginations run wild. Here's a paragraph by paragraph breakdown:

1.) We heard something about a SiI 1161 so we're going to look up what that chip does.
2.) To sound like we 're really smart, we'll tell you that 165MHz means that this chip can only handle 1600x1200 because we did some "really complex math". In actuality, we're quoting the facts on the product decription page.
3.) We did some really insightful google searches and found some useless info we're going to share about that chip.
4.) We'll dumb it down further and tell you some false info about how this chip is supposed to be used between GPUs (it's really used by LCD manufacturer to convert the DVI signal for use with a RAMDAC in the monitor).
5.) I'm now going to reflect on this so that I can show I do think once in a while. Through this reflection, I'll realized that the only reason to use a SiI 1161 in this solution is to keep costs down (although the product is marketed as a high end solution and the cost difference won't be more than a couple dollars a board). Then I'll start quoting some facts about Nvidia and conclude that ATI is going to move to a similar SLI system over the crossfire in the future. Afterall, Nvidia told us a crossfire system won't work and we believe them.
6.) Now we'll begin speculating about how ATI will market their solution now that I proved their system is crap.
7.) Some ATI partner think we are wrong. But who cares, we know better than ATI's partners! After all, we did the math (yeah right).


To conclude, it's more exciting to tell half-truths than to actually know what's going on.

Banzia, I've said enough about it.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Deception

Originally posted by: brokenpc
Rollo, I loved your response. Why? Because I can see I got under your skin. Good.

I'm not going to respond to the tome you posted but I will say this. I didn't come here to convert a zealot. I just want to point one out.

So I'll return to my point: do you know how career ending a limitation like this would be to the crossfire design team. A product marketed to enthusiasts is below parity in an essential feature. That's moronic and simply will not be the case.

Sure, I might just be stamping my foot saying "I know better." But all logic agrees with me.

Rollo, as a double major with Psych/Business (I'm not sure what that means), buzz marketing should not be a foreign term to you. Marketers understand this better than anyone. What better way to sell a new yo-yo than to hand it to the popular kid in schools and have him use it. What better way to get kids not to buy the hoolahoop than to have him say (because he heard from a guy who knew a guy) that the hoop would only come in hot pink. They other kids will not want the hoop even if it comes in all different colours. Why? Because the popular kid had a good reason not to like it (though they can't remember it).

Rollo is the popular kid. He's incessantly around this forum as the guy with knowledge. He buys the newest products and reports how much he likes them. He builds credibility. And then he drops bombs.

I have a question for you:

What's the point in blatantly attacking someone?

You're logic here is quited flawed; you here are directly attacking Rollo himself...even admitting that this is the reason you joined the forums...is this supposed to help the AT forums in some sort of way.

On the contrary, do you not realize that you're hurting the situation and not helping?

I have been a long time fan of AT forums for quite some time, but I have never seen people so angry about computer hardware :-/

Deception

You mean we don't need more people just joining the boards to attack people?!?!

My bad...

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: rbV5
Nvidia tells the truth about crossfire!Link

Good find rbV5- pretty much sums it up.

A good find, indeed... :roll:

Slide by slide analysis:

1) Nv will tell you the truth because they know crossfire better than Ati

2) Nv will tell you when x-fire will be available because they know the future

3) The truth, part 2: the r580 x-fire will offer unquestionably better performance than 7800gtx sli

4) SLI antialiasing only came out when Nv heard about x-fire AA, and they know Ati engineers are to dumb to implement it in OGL anyways.

5) Nv cards dont support AA with HDR, but with such shiny pictures, why would you want AA anyways?

6) As opposed to before, when SLi was buggy as hell... Yes, and when future games come out, be sure to download even newer drivers in order to use SLI.

7) Even Ati admits to using profiles... even when their text says nothing about profiles.

8) Assume this is all true because we say it is

9) Ati customers are too dumb to buy a pair of matching cards, so they will use mismatched cards just because they have the option

10) As opposed to paying more for an SLI mobo, even if you dont use SLI. And be sure not to hax your DFI Ultra-D for free SLI, cause we'll do anything to foil your attempts.

11) Look at all the fancy math we did in our head! We didnt cheat, we promise! You cant see the work, but trust me, the math is completely accurate!

12) No work, no credit...

13) And USB/Ethernet is related to x-fire how?

14) All of Nv's products are flawless, however. In fact, we're still working to get that PVP working on the nv40 with the next driver release.

15) And no way in hell would Ati fix the USB problem, so might as well stick with Nv all the way.

16) Proof?

17) More proof?

18) Gotta love this:
- Secure networking engine - the piece of crap that you're lucky you can chose not to install
- nTune - the useless crap that takes up 20mb worth of space and does 100kb worth of work
- price points, full performance, ... - see above comments

19) Thanks to watching our propaganda

 

[Regs]

Most gamers now have LCDs? Wow, I woke up in the twilight zone.

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: rbV5
Nvidia tells the truth about crossfire!Link

Good find rbV5- pretty much sums it up.

A good find, indeed... :roll:

Slide by slide analysis:

1) Nv will tell you the truth because they know crossfire better than Ati

2) Nv will tell you when x-fire will be available because they know the future

3) The truth, part 2: the r580 x-fire will offer unquestionably better performance than 7800gtx sli

4) SLI antialiasing only came out when Nv heard about x-fire AA, and they know Ati engineers are to dumb to implement it in OGL anyways.

5) Nv cards dont support AA with HDR, but with such shiny pictures, why would you want AA anyways?

6) As opposed to before, when SLi was buggy as hell... Yes, and when future games come out, be sure to download even newer drivers in order to use SLI.

7) Even Ati admits to using profiles... even when their text says nothing about profiles.

8) Assume this is all true because we say it is

9) Ati customers are too dumb to buy a pair of matching cards, so they will use mismatched cards just because they have the option

10) As opposed to paying more for an SLI mobo, even if you dont use SLI. And be sure not to hax your DFI Ultra-D for free SLI, cause we'll do anything to foil your attempts.

11) Look at all the fancy math we did in our head! We didnt cheat, we promise! You cant see the work, but trust me, the math is completely accurate!

12) No work, no credit...

13) And USB/Ethernet is related to x-fire how?

14) All of Nv's products are flawless, however. In fact, we're still working to get that PVP working on the nv40 with the next driver release.

15) And no way in hell would Ati fix the USB problem, so might as well stick with Nv all the way.

16) Proof?

17) More proof?

18) Gotta love this:
- Secure networking engine - the piece of crap that you're lucky you can chose not to install
- nTune - the useless crap that takes up 20mb worth of space and does 100kb worth of work
- price points, full performance, ... - see above comments

19) Thanks to watching our propaganda

:thumbsup:

I am not saying that X-Fire will be better or even as good as SLI myself, but really learning stuff about ATI through NVIDIA? Would we or should we even attempt to believe it if it were the other way around? I doubt it....

 

[brokenpc]

Munky, that link at the end of your post sealed the deal.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: brokenpc
Munky, that link at the end of your post sealed the deal.

Because the great guys and gals at ATI, who are just like the wholesome young engineers you've worked with, say so, right BrokenPC?
:roll:

 

[otispunkmeyer]

why are people even arguing about which is better

SLI is available now, and like a stone rolling down a hill, gathering momentum with every driver release.

cross fire is no where to be seen on the shelves. there is no competition right now

not to mention when it does arrive u need a new mobo with a ATi chipset. (NV>Ati in chipsets for sure) and then you need to root around and pay a premium for a master card, and make sure it matches the card you have, SLI is so much easier. jus make sure its the same type of card, and it doesnt even matter who made it so you can go buy the cheapest. then (an i hope they fix this) your stuck at 16x12 @60hz, which i dont call hi-res gaming.

so SLI is the best right now, because the competition is no where in sight.

when the competition finally arrives its looking like bringing a knife to a gun fight. hopefully Ati have been using this delay time productively so that they can fix the issues we currently are aware of. then we got a competition going. and then in the fight for supremacy the customer wins (as competetion brings development of new tech)

 

[brokenpc]

Hi Rollo,

I did not say I held the same respect the marketers that sell the products (which you are an extension of).

Hell, I'd be backing Nvidia's guys if this was about them. Even the 5800 Ultra was a faster, better card than it's predecessors. The only problem it had was a competitor that destroyed it (and so it's considered a crappy card). It was priced too high and should have not been marketed at the same level as the radeon.

But to put faith in the idea that ATI will paralyze its offering because its engineers live in a bubble is ludricous. And I really hope you hope I'm right about this... for the sake of the community. :roll:

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: rbV5
Nvidia tells the truth about crossfire!Link

Good find rbV5- pretty much sums it up.

A good find, indeed... :roll:

Slide by slide analysis:

1) Nv will tell you the truth because they know crossfire better than Ati

2) Nv will tell you when x-fire will be available because they know the future

3) The truth, part 2: the r580 x-fire will offer unquestionably better performance than 7800gtx sli

4) SLI antialiasing only came out when Nv heard about x-fire AA, and they know Ati engineers are to dumb to implement it in OGL anyways.

5) Nv cards dont support AA with HDR, but with such shiny pictures, why would you want AA anyways?

6) As opposed to before, when SLi was buggy as hell... Yes, and when future games come out, be sure to download even newer drivers in order to use SLI.

7) Even Ati admits to using profiles... even when their text says nothing about profiles.

8) Assume this is all true because we say it is

9) Ati customers are too dumb to buy a pair of matching cards, so they will use mismatched cards just because they have the option

10) As opposed to paying more for an SLI mobo, even if you dont use SLI. And be sure not to hax your DFI Ultra-D for free SLI, cause we'll do anything to foil your attempts.

11) Look at all the fancy math we did in our head! We didnt cheat, we promise! You cant see the work, but trust me, the math is completely accurate!

12) No work, no credit...

13) And USB/Ethernet is related to x-fire how?

14) All of Nv's products are flawless, however. In fact, we're still working to get that PVP working on the nv40 with the next driver release.

15) And no way in hell would Ati fix the USB problem, so might as well stick with Nv all the way.

16) Proof?

17) More proof?

18) Gotta love this:
- Secure networking engine - the piece of crap that you're lucky you can chose not to install
- nTune - the useless crap that takes up 20mb worth of space and does 100kb worth of work
- price points, full performance, ... - see above comments

19) Thanks to watching our propaganda

Q F T

 

[brokenpc]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
why are people even arguing about which is better

SLI is available now, and like a stone rolling down a hill, gathering momentum with every driver release.

cross fire is no where to be seen on the shelves. there is no competition right now

not to mention when it does arrive u need a new mobo with a ATi chipset. (NV>Ati in chipsets for sure) and then you need to root around and pay a premium for a master card, and make sure it matches the card you have, SLI is so much easier. jus make sure its the same type of card, and it doesnt even matter who made it so you can go buy the cheapest. then (an i hope they fix this) your stuck at 16x12 @60hz, which i dont call hi-res gaming.

so SLI is the best right now, because the competition is no where in sight.

when the competition finally arrives its looking like bringing a knife to a gun fight. hopefully Ati have been using this delay time productively so that they can fix the issues we currently are aware of. then we got a competition going. and then in the fight for supremacy the customer wins (as competetion brings development of new tech)

Crossfire is expected out next Monday (September 26); I got that information from the inquirer so it might be completely wrong. So the question on some potential SLI-buyers' minds is "Should I wait to see the result of of crossfire, or should I buy SLI now." This is clearly a marketing attempt to sway those buyers to buy now.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: brokenpc

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
why are people even arguing about which is better

SLI is available now, and like a stone rolling down a hill, gathering momentum with every driver release.

cross fire is no where to be seen on the shelves. there is no competition right now

not to mention when it does arrive u need a new mobo with a ATi chipset. (NV>Ati in chipsets for sure) and then you need to root around and pay a premium for a master card, and make sure it matches the card you have, SLI is so much easier. jus make sure its the same type of card, and it doesnt even matter who made it so you can go buy the cheapest. then (an i hope they fix this) your stuck at 16x12 @60hz, which i dont call hi-res gaming.

so SLI is the best right now, because the competition is no where in sight.

when the competition finally arrives its looking like bringing a knife to a gun fight. hopefully Ati have been using this delay time productively so that they can fix the issues we currently are aware of. then we got a competition going. and then in the fight for supremacy the customer wins (as competetion brings development of new tech)

Crossfire is expected out next Monday (September 26); I got that information from the inquirer so it might be completely wrong. So the question on some potential SLI-buyers' minds is "Should I wait to see the result of of crossfire, or should I buy SLI now." This is clearly a marketing attempt to sway those buyers to buy now.

possibly, yeah INQ is abit :s sometimes theyre spot on, others theyre not. so you just cant tell lol. i mean this is business, you dont want potential customers not buying now do you.

hopefully they've fixed all these problems, but ive heard that the 16x12 limit is true. alot of the other limitations of XFire, like super tiling not working on 12 pipe cards , or in OpenGL, and that Xfire does indeed need driver profiles to enable rendering modes. and scissor mode isnt dynamic nor does it scale geometry, and super AA not working on 12 pipe cards. add to that the need for ATI motherboard (when the best athlon64 solution is Nv based, and entusiasts who buy dual gpu tech, generally buy the best mobo's too) and a specific mastercard, complete with less elegant DVI dongles.....it tips the scales in NV's favour alot

i mean all that comes from ATI themselves, im sure they know its not looking good when you compare it to SLI there. but this info is correct a 09/12/05 (even then it could be that they never got round to updating the site) so hopefully alot of thats been fixed.

if it hasnt then id imagine potential customers would be reading articles and comparing SLI and Xfire before handing over the green. if these things havent been fixed then it'll just sway them NV's way later rather than sooner.

but Nv obviously want to get them on board before ati has a chance to show just what they are capable of

but if its coming out on the 26th, and that info is the 12th.....then thats not alot of time to get things fixed.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

Originally posted by: brokenpc

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
why are people even arguing about which is better

SLI is available now, and like a stone rolling down a hill, gathering momentum with every driver release.

cross fire is no where to be seen on the shelves. there is no competition right now

not to mention when it does arrive u need a new mobo with a ATi chipset. (NV>Ati in chipsets for sure) and then you need to root around and pay a premium for a master card, and make sure it matches the card you have, SLI is so much easier. jus make sure its the same type of card, and it doesnt even matter who made it so you can go buy the cheapest. then (an i hope they fix this) your stuck at 16x12 @60hz, which i dont call hi-res gaming.

so SLI is the best right now, because the competition is no where in sight.

when the competition finally arrives its looking like bringing a knife to a gun fight. hopefully Ati have been using this delay time productively so that they can fix the issues we currently are aware of. then we got a competition going. and then in the fight for supremacy the customer wins (as competetion brings development of new tech)

Crossfire is expected out next Monday (September 26); I got that information from the inquirer so it might be completely wrong. So the question on some potential SLI-buyers' minds is "Should I wait to see the result of of crossfire, or should I buy SLI now." This is clearly a marketing attempt to sway those buyers to buy now.

possibly, yeah INQ is abit :s sometimes theyre spot on, others theyre not. so you just cant tell lol. i mean this is business, you dont want potential customers not buying now do you.

hopefully they've fixed all these problems, but ive heard that the 16x12 limit is true. alot of the other limitations of XFire, like super tiling not working on 12 pipe cards , or in OpenGL, and that Xfire does indeed need driver profiles to enable rendering modes. and scissor mode isnt dynamic nor does it scale geometry, and super AA not working on 12 pipe cards. add to that the need for ATI motherboard (when the best athlon64 solution is Nv based, and entusiasts who buy dual gpu tech, generally buy the best mobo's too) and a specific mastercard, complete with less elegant DVI dongles.....it tips the scales in NV's favour alot

i mean all that comes from ATI themselves, im sure they know its not looking good when you compare it to SLI there. but this info is correct a 09/12/05 (even then it could be that they never got round to updating the site) so hopefully alot of thats been fixed. because i like to see good competition

if it hasnt then id imagine potential customers would be reading articles and comparing SLI and Xfire before handing over the green. if these things havent been fixed then it'll just sway them NV's way later rather than sooner.

but Nv obviously want to get them on board before ati has a chance to show just what they are capable of

but if its coming out on the 26th, and that info is the 12th.....then thats not alot of time to get things fixed.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: brokenpc

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
why are people even arguing about which is better

SLI is available now, and like a stone rolling down a hill, gathering momentum with every driver release.

cross fire is no where to be seen on the shelves. there is no competition right now

not to mention when it does arrive u need a new mobo with a ATi chipset. (NV>Ati in chipsets for sure) and then you need to root around and pay a premium for a master card, and make sure it matches the card you have, SLI is so much easier. jus make sure its the same type of card, and it doesnt even matter who made it so you can go buy the cheapest. then (an i hope they fix this) your stuck at 16x12 @60hz, which i dont call hi-res gaming.

so SLI is the best right now, because the competition is no where in sight.

when the competition finally arrives its looking like bringing a knife to a gun fight. hopefully Ati have been using this delay time productively so that they can fix the issues we currently are aware of. then we got a competition going. and then in the fight for supremacy the customer wins (as competetion brings development of new tech)

Crossfire is expected out next Monday (September 26); I got that information from the inquirer so it might be completely wrong. So the question on some potential SLI-buyers' minds is "Should I wait to see the result of of crossfire, or should I buy SLI now." This is clearly a marketing attempt to sway those buyers to buy now.

So you think I somehow care if people buy SLI this weekend before the big Missfire launch on Monday?

LOL- I hope some guys hold out for Crossfire and snap it up tomorrow- then we'll get the truth about it. (and they'll get exactly what they paid for )

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: brokenpc

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
why are people even arguing about which is better

SLI is available now, and like a stone rolling down a hill, gathering momentum with every driver release.

cross fire is no where to be seen on the shelves. there is no competition right now

not to mention when it does arrive u need a new mobo with a ATi chipset. (NV>Ati in chipsets for sure) and then you need to root around and pay a premium for a master card, and make sure it matches the card you have, SLI is so much easier. jus make sure its the same type of card, and it doesnt even matter who made it so you can go buy the cheapest. then (an i hope they fix this) your stuck at 16x12 @60hz, which i dont call hi-res gaming.

so SLI is the best right now, because the competition is no where in sight.

when the competition finally arrives its looking like bringing a knife to a gun fight. hopefully Ati have been using this delay time productively so that they can fix the issues we currently are aware of. then we got a competition going. and then in the fight for supremacy the customer wins (as competetion brings development of new tech)

Crossfire is expected out next Monday (September 26); I got that information from the inquirer so it might be completely wrong. So the question on some potential SLI-buyers' minds is "Should I wait to see the result of of crossfire, or should I buy SLI now." This is clearly a marketing attempt to sway those buyers to buy now.

So you think I somehow care if people buy SLI this weekend before the big Missfire launch on Monday?

LOL- I hope some guys hold out for Crossfire and snap it up tomorrow- then we'll get the truth about it. (and they'll get exactly what they paid for )

im betting they get less than what they payed for

 

[brokenpc]

Originally posted by: Rollo

So you think I somehow care if people buy SLI this weekend before the big Missfire launch on Monday?

LOL- I hope some guys hold out for Crossfire and snap it up tomorrow- then we'll get the truth about it. (and they'll get exactly what they paid for )

No, like I said before, I think your a pawn who pays a lot to be a pawn (unless you actually are on the payroll).

BTW, Xfire comes out next monday, not tomorrow. That's why I wrote the 26th of September.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: brokenpc

Originally posted by: Rollo

So you think I somehow care if people buy SLI this weekend before the big Missfire launch on Monday?

LOL- I hope some guys hold out for Crossfire and snap it up tomorrow- then we'll get the truth about it. (and they'll get exactly what they paid for )

No, like I said before, I think your a pawn who pays a lot to be a pawn (unless you actually are on the payroll).

BTW, Xfire comes out next monday, not tomorrow. That's why I wrote the 26th of September.

Again, anyone who wishes to pay me for indulging in my hobby, PM me for account numbers. Would be nice to see some coming in the other way.

 

[Regs]

There is a fine line between a hobby and an excuse.

 

[blckgrffn]

Originally posted by: Regs
There is a fine line between a hobby and an excuse.

Ummm... well, I don't get it Please explain that...

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: rbV5
Maybe group that believes that their NV41 has a "fixed" programmable VP despite the fact that nvidia has yet to deliver to them any additional codec support despite the fact that there are several popular formats in use that could benefit.

You mean other than WMV acceleration and MPEG-2 acceleration? Because the NV41 does have those.

Well I don't think it will require a new revision. It can speed it up at least a little because the PVP includes motion search and iDCT functionality which is universally used. The PVP itself is capable, but NVIDIA hasn't shown any application for its other functionality yet (other than MPEG-2), and probably never will.

WMV acceleration was enabled by a patch to enable DXVA acceleration in WMP10 (read DXVA acceleration part carefully. There is a reason ATI's shader implementation is ~ equal to Nvidia's so-called "processesor" implementation for WMV acceleration. Its the same reason WMV accleration is not transparent and only works with WMP10 in both cases.

MPEG-2 acceleration is likey not handled by NV41's video processor either, rather on the GPU-s ASIC like it has been for years, and additionally with DXVA. Thats probably why ATI DX9 cards and Nvidia DX9 cards have ~ same performance using the very same "Purevideo" enabled DVD decoders, and despite the broken PVP, NV40 works for MPEG-2 just like NV41.

From my testing, and from my research, it looks as if other than Spatial-Temporal De-Interlacing, 3:2 Pulldown, 3:2 Bad Edit, the PVP is not doing much of anything for any cards, and its unable to be programmed with additional codec support. My theory is that WMV acceleration cannot work on NV40 at all because they intended for transparent acceleration from the programmable processor to intercept the DX calls without leaving a backdoor for plain DXVA acceleration to work. Since the Programmable processor was fubured, and they left no way for DXVA to work....no possible accelerated decoding support for WMV., they realized it too late for NV40 and NV41 simply uses DXVA instead of actually using the PVP (like ATI's cards)...so it appears to"work".

I doubt NV41's video processor is any more "programmable" than NV40, there's certainly no proof I've seen that it is.

 

[TerracideDK]

Originally posted by: munky
Slide by slide analysis:

1) Nv will tell you the truth because they know crossfire better than Ati

They are talking about X8xx crossfire, you think that will beat NVIDIA's current offerings? :roll:

2) Nv will tell you when x-fire will be available because they know the future

Well ATI's also lies about this:
CrossFire? - FAQs
"4. When will CrossFire graphics cards be available?

A. Radeon X850 and Radeon X800 CrossFire Edition cards will be available mid-August."
Pure BS...

3) The truth, part 2: the r580 x-fire will offer unquestionably better performance than 7800gtx sli

Proof?
Benchmarks?
You are now pulling a Sander's here...

4) SLI antialiasing only came out when Nv heard about x-fire AA, and they know Ati engineers are to dumb to implement it in OGL anyways.

It's a released feature, what's your point?

5) Nv cards dont support AA with HDR, but with such shiny pictures, why would you want AA anyways?

Current ATI cards dosn't support FP16 HDR, NVIDA suport both FP16 HDR and Integer Fixed HDR...are you saying that more features are a bad thing?

6) As opposed to before, when SLi was buggy as hell... Yes, and when future games come out, be sure to download even newer drivers in order to use SLI.

You want to compare the past to the present? *LOL*
Besides I guees you missed out that part that SLI(as will be the feature of Crossfire) not has a default render mode for games not supported in the drivers, no difference there.

7) Even Ati admits to using profiles... even when their text says nothing about profiles

Perhaps you should read up about the AI's part in Crossfire?

8) Assume this is all true because we say it is

The same goes for you...

9) Ati customers are too dumb to buy a pair of matching cards, so they will use mismatched cards just because they have the option

Currently ATI's owner have NO options?

10) As opposed to paying more for an SLI mobo, even if you dont use SLI. And be sure not to hax your DFI Ultra-D for free SLI, cause we'll do anything to foil your attempts.

Paying more?
Please link me too a crossfire Mbo that has better price/features ratio?

11) Look at all the fancy math we did in our head! We didnt cheat, we promise! You cant see the work, but trust me, the math is completely accurate!

And you are of course totally unbiased :roll:

12) No work, no credit...

Same for you...

13) And USB/Ethernet is related to x-fire how?

Motherboard features/preformance, don't be stupid(more than usually...)

14) All of Nv's products are flawless, however. In fact, we're still working to get that PVP working on the nv40 with the next driver release.

So crossfire is out when?
To mimick one of your questions, how does this relate to Crossfire?

15) And no way in hell would Ati fix the USB problem, so might as well stick with Nv all the way.

Proff that they fixed it?

16) Proof?

First valid point...wow...

17) More proof?

Second valid point...one more and you get a cookie....

18) Gotta love this:
- Secure networking engine - the piece of crap that you're lucky you can chose not to install
- nTune - the useless crap that takes up 20mb worth of space and does 100kb worth of work
- price points, full performance, ... - see above comments

You might to review those points again yourself...

19) Thanks to watching our propaganda

Jokes don't makes either facts or arguments, you post lacks both, even by a low standard...

Terra - Awaiting solid arguments, not just fanboy rants...

 

[Woofmeister]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Anyone remember all the complaints about no widescreen on SLI originally? I assume those same people will see this as at least as bad, IMHO, much worse.

Inasmuch as I was one of the most vociferous complainers about SLI's inability to properly display at widescreen resolutions (since fixed), I agree that this is much worse.

X-Fire's limited ability to display widescreen resolutions only at lower (i.e., non-native) refresh rates is a step backwards IMHO. As the owner of a 24 inch widescreen monitor, I"m not even going to consider X-Fire when it comes time to upgrade.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Woofmeister

Originally posted by: Rollo
Anyone remember all the complaints about no widescreen on SLI originally? I assume those same people will see this as at least as bad, IMHO, much worse.

Inasmuch as I was one of the most vociferous complainers about SLI's inability to properly display at widescreen resolutions (since fixed), I agree that this is much worse.

X-Fire's limited ability to display widescreen resolutions only at lower (i.e., non-native) refresh rates is a step backwards IMHO. As the owner of a 24 inch widescreen monitor, I"m not even going to consider X-Fire when it comes time to upgrade.

Exactly. This is by definition an "enthusiast" solution that as far as we know now is totally hobbled by a decidedly non enthusiast limitation.

Sort like buying a Mustang with a 4 cylinder instead of the V8. Yeah, it looks like a fast car, but it sucks.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: TerracideDK

They are talking about X8xx crossfire, you think that will beat NVIDIA's current offerings? :roll:

CrossFire is not available right now. When it is available, chances are it will also be available for the x1800. Why would you talk about the x850's when those are last gen cards, and are not the product that Nv should be worried about? If you're gonna say how the 7800 is available now, and the x850 is the best Ati has to compete, well then how about mentioning that the x850 beat the 7800 to the market by more than a year, so that would imply that Nv was a year late with it's response to the x850?

Well ATI's also lies about this:
CrossFire? - FAQs
"4. When will CrossFire graphics cards be available?

A. Radeon X850 and Radeon X800 CrossFire Edition cards will be available mid-August."
Pure BS...

Yeah, I noticed how there are no crossfire boards yet, thanks for pointing out the obvious. But stating that it wont be available for another 4 months is also BS, especially since Nv doesnt decide when crossfire will be launched.

3) The truth, part 2: the r580 x-fire will offer unquestionably better performance than 7800gtx sli

Proof?
Benchmarks?
You are now pulling a Sander's here...

It's not about proof, it's about comparing 2 products that are a generation apart. Usually the newer products are faster, in case you havent noticed

4) SLI antialiasing only came out when Nv heard about x-fire AA, and they know Ati engineers are to dumb to implement it in OGL anyways.

It's a released feature, what's your point?

Crossfire AA is a unreleased feature, what's their point? Any proof that it doesnt work in OpenGL?

5) Nv cards dont support AA with HDR, but with such shiny pictures, why would you want AA anyways?

Current ATI cards dosn't support FP16 HDR, NVIDA suport both FP16 HDR and Integer Fixed HDR...are you saying that more features are a bad thing?

Are you saying that new features that make you give up other features are a good thing?

6) As opposed to before, when SLi was buggy as hell... Yes, and when future games come out, be sure to download even newer drivers in order to use SLI.

You want to compare the past to the present? *LOL*
Besides I guees you missed out that part that SLI(as will be the feature of Crossfire) not has a default render mode for games not supported in the drivers, no difference there.

I'd still like to see if Crossfire will be as buggy as SLI was when it was first released.

7) Even Ati admits to using profiles... even when their text says nothing about profiles

Perhaps you should read up about the AI's part in Crossfire?

Catalyst AI = profiles? Since when?

8) Assume this is all true because we say it is

The same goes for you...

I don't fall for marketing BS

9) Ati customers are too dumb to buy a pair of matching cards, so they will use mismatched cards just because they have the option

Currently ATI's owner have NO options?

Currently, Ati owners are waiting for official benchmarks comparing the x1800 and Crossfire vs. whatever Nvidia has. I'd rather make an informed buying decision than jump on the Nv bandwagon just because they had something out first. And, you still didnt explain why Nv expects ppl to buy mismatched cards.

10) As opposed to paying more for an SLI mobo, even if you dont use SLI. And be sure not to hax your DFI Ultra-D for free SLI, cause we'll do anything to foil your attempts.

Paying more?
Please link me too a crossfire Mbo that has better price/features ratio?

Yes, paying more than for a non-sli mobo. And while I have a board that can be modded into SLI for free, Nv sure went thorough a lot of trouble to try and prevent that from happening. When crossfire boards are available, then you can decide which is better - paying a premium for a master card to use crossfire, or paying a premium for a sli mobo even if you're not using a second card.

11) Look at all the fancy math we did in our head! We didnt cheat, we promise! You cant see the work, but trust me, the math is completely accurate!

And you are of course totally unbiased :roll:

As are you :roll:. If these marketing fvcks expect me to believe them, at least they should offer SOME evidence of their claims.

12) No work, no credit...

Same for you...

I'm not the one publishing BS marketing slides all over the web.

13) And USB/Ethernet is related to x-fire how?

Motherboard features/preformance, don't be stupid(more than usually...)

In that case lets look at all the wonderful "features" of a budget nf4 board... not to mention the lack of SLI.

14) All of Nv's products are flawless, however. In fact, we're still working to get that PVP working on the nv40 with the next driver release.

So crossfire is out when?
To mimick one of your questions, how does this relate to Crossfire?

When crossfire is out, you can look at the problems on it's boards. Where did Nv get a production version of a crossfire board?

15) And no way in hell would Ati fix the USB problem, so might as well stick with Nv all the way.

Proff that they fixed it?

Proof that they wont?

16) Proof?

First valid point...wow...

I'm still waiting for yours...

17) More proof?

Second valid point...one more and you get a cookie....

Still waiting...

18) Gotta love this:
- Secure networking engine - the piece of crap that you're lucky you can chose not to install
- nTune - the useless crap that takes up 20mb worth of space and does 100kb worth of work
- price points, full performance, ... - see above comments

You might to review those points again yourself...

I actually tried out their crap, so I know...

19) Thanks to watching our propaganda

Jokes don't makes either facts or arguments, you post lacks both, even by a low standard...

Terra - Awaiting solid arguments, not just fanboy rants...

The joke makes a point, which you apparently failed to understand. The simpleton explanation:

The purpose of Nv making these slides is to make themselves look good and Ati look bad, even when their statements contradict reality, or have little to do with the main topic. Looking at the BS on the second to last slide makes it pretty obvious, if you dont see it then you dont want to see it.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: munky
The purpose of Nv making these slides is to make themselves look good and Ati look bad, even when their statements contradict reality, or have little to do with the main topic. Looking at the BS on the second to last slide makes it pretty obvious, if you dont see it then you dont want to see it.

Might want to reconsider, it was all true.