Cryptocoin Mining?

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pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
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Any detailed tutorials on how to actually sell your bitcoins. I must be dumb because I can't figure it out on MtGox, that or their website is bad.

Do you send funds to paypal or something?

The simplest that I'd heard of was BTCBuy (http://btcbuy.info/) but they suspended operations effective a few hours ago due to legal uncertainty regarding the relatively recent FinCEN memorandum ( http://bitcoinmagazine.com/fincen-bitcoin-users-not-regulated-exchanges-are/ )

So, yeah, MtGox seems like the most reputable - and they are what I use. Open an account, choose "deposit bitcoins" and they give you a bitcoin address. Transfer your mined bitcoins from whatever pool you use to your wallet - or directly to the MtGox address. Then sell them. Then have MtGox verify that you are a real person by submitting paperwork. Then to get the money in real dollars (or euros or whatever), you can use dwalla, or wire directly to a bank account by using their bank transfer system. They rejected my paperwork the first time so I'm still being validated or verified or whatever. My plan is to use the bank transfer system they have and have the money wired into my US bank account. I'm not sure exactly how to do this, but I figured that I'd go to my bank and say "hey, I want to wire money to my account, what system (SWIFT/ABA/etc) do I use and what number do I give them?" and go from there.

If the bank transfer thing seems overly complex then I'll fall back to using Dwalla.. but I'm kind of getting tired/leery of opening accounts at companies with dubious sounding names (no offense is intended to anyone reading this but the names of both "Magic The Gather Online Exchange" (MtGox) and "Dwalla" do not give me great financial confidence... although maybe this makes me a shallow person who need to be impressed by fancy sounding names, like "Northwestern Liberty Mutual Trust" or something like that) and I don't want to add one more link in the chain.

To sell LTC, the best thing that I have come up with is to use BTC-E to convert LTC to BTC and then move the BTC to MtGox and sell them. But hopefully by posting this here, someone will go "oh, PM, that's a terrible suggestion" and correct me because the whole thing seems very circuitous to me.
 
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UaVaj

Golden Member
Nov 16, 2012
1,546
0
76
Google "mining hardware," look up your card on the list and find mhash, then google "bitcoin profit" and use that mhash in the calculator.

Short answer = not much. Nvidia cards don't work well.

thanks for the walk through.

here are the link incase someone else want to do the same.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison#Nvidia
http://dev.bitcoinx.com/profit/

680 mhash = ~120 (240 effectively with sli)
7970 mhash = ~700 (1400 effectively with cf) (should never sold that pair of 7970 :whiste:- thanks microstutter - )

680 will yield 0.0180 bitcoin per 24 hour (55 days for 1 bitcoin )
500w for 55 day = $66 of electric @ 0.10 per kWh.

7970 will yield 0.1052 bitcoin per 24 hour (10 days for 1 bitcoin)
675w for 10 day = $16 of electric @ 0.10 per kWh.
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,456
61
101
I just use fastcash4bitcoins, on another miners suggestion in this thread. Very small fee, different methods of payment you can choose from, and the money gets there fast in my experience. I send the money to Paypal or Dwolla. Paypal if I just want the cash, Dwolla if I am going to reinvest some of the cash into more BTC by buying them thru Mtgox.

Don't forget that getting verified with Mtgox so that you can buy/sell and fund your wallet freely can take several weeks.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
You simply cannot assume risk away. Don't give me that 7 days stuff. BTC prices are incredibly volatile, and they can be $20 or $200 an HOUR from now, let alone 7 days from now. How much money would you make (or lose!) if you plug in $20 instead of $140 for BTC prices over 7 days at constant difficulty? If you plug in $200? I feel like this is the third time I've had to make this point and you seem unable to comprehend it.

Actually no. I understand the risk perfectly which is why I have been recommending people to buy cards and you have not for almost a year now. People who listened to me made $ and people who listened to you didn't. I'll break it down for you again.

The risk occurs ONLY until the point when you break even on the resale of the used hardware considered against generated profits and resale value of game coupons. After that, there is no risk because if you were to sell the videocard after that point, your loss is $0. If there is no financial loss, there is no risk. The key question then is how many days will it take for HD7970 OC to make enough $ to offset its short-term depreciation should bitcoin mining fail and the user does not need the 7970 for games?

There are a couple ways to think about risk. First, we do not know what the price for bitcoins will be the next 7 days. One approach is to assume that the price is fixed at or around today's level for 7 days. It doesn't matter at all what the value of bitcoins is after 7 days because we will break even in just 7 days at today's prices (in this case it means the coins generated + resale of game coupons would completely offset the loss of value due to depreciation of the hardware) if the price of coins remains at today's levels. Beyond 7 days, if the price remains at today's levels or similar, we start making $$. After that point, it doesn't matter at all since if bitcoin price crashes, you sell the card and lose no $.

The second approach considers that we cannot predict the price of bitcoins at all. In this case we assume the worst case scenario which means 100% probability of not making any $ on bitcoin mining and thus taking on the loss of selling the used/opened hardware. Ie., We assume that bitcoins crash immediately at hardware installation time. Then the total risk is not measured in break even days but in actual monetary terms associated with the loss of value on hardware resale, net of positive cash flow from the resale of the game coupons. It would then be equal to the depreciated value of the 7970 (say $50 since the card isn't new) less the value of the 2 games, at least $20. Your total risk is measured as a financial loss of $50 - $20 = $30. This is your worst case scenario.

No matter how you look at it from a time perspective or financially, the risk of purchasing a 7970 for bitcoin mining is very low, the lowest it has ever been. You do not even need to know the price of bitcoins over the next 7 days because if bitcoins crash to $0 in 1 min from now, you sell the newly purchased videocard and the game coupon and your loss for trying bitcoins is only $30.

Since I already quantified the worst case scenario, let's look at some other possibilities.

Let's assume a 90% probability that bitcoin mining fails and 10% that the price is $100 for a month. A single 7970 @ 1150mhz makes $147 after 5% pool fees, or $100 after electricity costs (assuming 15 cents per kWh).

Expected Return per 1 card = 90% * ($30 loss per card) + 10% * $100 gain a month = -$17

I assumed a 90% chance the bitcoin will crash, a 400W of total electricity consumption and the total expected loss is still only about $17.

What about a more realistic 50%-50% chance since we do not now the direction of bitcoins?

Expected Return per 1 card = 50% * ($30 loss per card) + 50% * $100 gain a month = $30

So please do not tell me I didn't quantify the risks. The math supports the view that a user should keep buying 7970s (assuming no other component costs) because the risk of loss on the card itself is very little ($30) against the upside potential of it generating profits. If a user cannot afford a loss of $30 or does not know how to sell videocards, then bitcoin is not for them in the first place.
 
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bluesquare07

Member
Mar 10, 2013
135
0
0
The risk occurs ONLY until the point when you break even on the resale of the hardware against generate profits and value of game coupons. After that, there is no risk because if you were to sell the videocard after that point, your loss is $0. The question then is how many days will it take for HD7970 OC to make enough $ that offsets the short-term depreciation should you need to sell it if you bought it only for bitcoins?

There are a couple ways to think about it. First, we do not know what the price will be for bitcoins over the next 7 days. We can assume that the price is fixed at or around today's level for 7 days. It doesn't matter at all what the value of bitcoins is after 7 days because you have already broken even (in this case it means the coins generated + resale of game coupons would completely offset the loss of value due to depreciatino) if the price of coins remains at today's levels. Beyond 7 days, if the price remains, you start making $$ and if bitcoin price crashes, you sell the card and lose no $.

The second way considers an outright 100% scenario of not making any $ on bitcoin mining with a 7970 ever. Ie., We assume that bitcoins crash immediately at hardware purchase time. Then the total risk is not measured in days but in actual monetary terms associated with the loss of value on hardware resale. It would then be equal to the depreciated value of the 7970 (say $50 since the card isn't new) less the value of the 2 games (I low-balled it at $20). Your total risk is then $30-40 max.

No matter how you look at it from a time perspective or financially, the risk of purchasing a 7970 for bitcoin mining is very low, the lowest it has ever been.

Oh wow, you finally posted. It seems like you go MIA every time there is negative light on AMD. Where did you go!?

(And i dont mean this in a bad way)
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Buying a 7900 series card for the express purpose of mining can be compared to buying a call option, in a way. You have ongoing electricity prices and not just time depreciation, but if we ignore electricity costs for the moment, the idea is that you can't ever lose more than what you paid for the card, even if your card broke immediately and you were out of warranty. I agree with that. However, a) electricity does cost something, and b) you pooh-poohed the risk earlier in this thread. That's I took issue with. Anyone who mined over the last couple of years did take a risk. Luckily it was a good one, but it could have ended differently. (Heck, even in the last few months, if BFL and all the other ASIC vendors actually delivered along with Avalon, difficulty would have been so much higher.) Nobody would disagree that mining is less risky than buying BTC outright. But there is still some risk. BTW, if you have the stomach for it, buying an ASIC is probably somewhat riskier than GPUs but somewhat less risky than buying BTC directly.

Enough with the gloating--don't tell me with a straight face that you somehow knew BTCs were going to explode like this. If BTC were $1.25 rather than $125, you'd sing a different tune. In fact, if you knew for a fact BTCs were going to do what they did, you would have been far better off buying BTCs in bulk at $5 a year ago, than buying the equivalent amount of money in GPUs and mining. And if you believed in mining so much you could have ordered an Avalon ASIC and really be raking it in. Mining with GPUs you were going to buy ANYWAY makes sense, but buying GPUs for the sole purpose of mining has a lot more variables to take into account because prices change; so does difficulty; electric costs can change a lot if you are on a tiered schedule like much of the country is; and depreciation may be more than you think especially after factoring in transaction costs; nobody is going to buy a month-old 7970 from you without a significant cut in price because they could just buy a brand new one and get games and a warranty, too.

P.S. I just looked at the price after writing this. It was $147 earlier today and is now $113 and dropping. You might want to re-crunch your numbers that assumed much higher prices. ROFL. Then re-crunch them with the imminent higher difficulty due in 283 blocks from now (a little over a day). Then recrunch again because the price will undoubtedly keep changing, for the better--or for the worse. If I had to bet, I'd say that we're currently in the "Denial" phase of this chart.



 
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Avalon

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2001
7,567
156
106
Anyone have any experience with cgminer? I finally stopped using GUIminer and switched to cgminer due to the increased speed, and it connects to my coinotron pool with my workername credentials, but I don't seem to see any activity on my account like I did with GUIminer?

*Edit*
Think I configured it wrong...my work speed was in Mhash/s instead of Khash/s, I was intending to mine litecoins but I think I accidentally set it up for bitcoins. Oops, nm.
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
I still have a few bitcoins (not sure if I should sell or hold for a while longer...) left and wouldn't mind mining 24/7 now. I just downloaded the latest version of the guiminer, I ran it and keep getting an error, "poclbm.exe: error :no such option -1" This happens when I try solo or when I use deepbit.net (which I verified I am able to log in on their website). So, I'm not sure what to do here, anyone have any ideas..?
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Oh wow, you finally posted. It seems like you go MIA every time there is negative light on AMD. Where did you go!?

(And i dont mean this in a bad way)

Or there is another explanation and my disappearance and negative light on AMD (I wasn't aware there was negative light on AMD since I was MIA - what did I miss?) is a coincidence.

I got a promotion which entailed moving to UAE. I moved there at the beginning of March which explains me being MIA on the forums. I haven't had much time to post until now due to relocation, etc. For 2 weeks in May I will be going to Uzbekistan and then I have a project in Kyrgyzstan, which means I'll be MIA again. Hopefully my disappearance on forums during that time will not be correlated with negative light on AMD. If it isn't obvious already, despite the conspiracy theorists, I do not work for AMD, although I did have drinks with ATIC and Global Foundries (GF) finance guys in Abu Dhabi 2 weeks ago. Good times since PC hardware is my hobby and meeting people in charge of corporate finance/strategic planning at GF is pretty awesome for a PC enthusiast.
 
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badb0y

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2010
4,015
30
91
I got a promotion which entailed moving to UAE. I moved there at the beginning of March which explains me being MIA on the forums. I haven't had much time to post until now due to relocation, etc. For 2 weeks in May I will be going to Uzbekistan and then I have a project in Kyrgyzstan, which means I'll be MIA again. Hopefully my disappearance on forums during that time will not be correlated with negative light on AMD. If it isn't obvious already, despite the conspiracy theorists, I do not work for AMD, although I did have drinks with ATIC and Global Foundries (GF) finance guys in Abu Dhabi 2 weeks ago. Good times since PC hardware is my hobby and meeting people in charge of corporate finance/strategic planning of GF is pretty awesome for a PC enthusiast.

Are you a CEO $10k a day now?
 

UaVaj

Golden Member
Nov 16, 2012
1,546
0
76
not sure about the 7 day.

-----

here is some real numbers.

puchase a pair of 7970 jan this year ($400 each). sold it due to microstutter a month ago ($300 each after ebay/paypal/shipping).

the true cost of flipping a 7970 is $100.

-----

calcaluation says takes ~20 day to generate one bitcoin per one 7970 (post 4052).

Bitcoin rate: $13.50 in January, and around $30 a month ago, to more than $140 today.

at the current near all time high going rate of $140 per bitcoin. will take 14.3 days to break even if this price hold, electricity not included. with electric @ $1.2 per day. 16.7 days to break even. this is just to flip a 7970 should you change your mind.

at the historic low going rate of $13 per bitcoin. will take 153.8 days to break even if this price hold, electricity not included. with electric @ $1.2 per day. 437.9 days to break even. forget flipping that 7970.

-----

if you need the 7970 for other purpose (like gaming) and bitcoin as a bonus. sound like a great idea.

to buy a 7970 for bitcoin mining, you are better off buying bitcoin.

-----

if you have bitcoin. now the time to SELL !!!
bubble about to burst. see post. #4056.
 

bluesquare07

Member
Mar 10, 2013
135
0
0
Or there is another explanation and my disappearance and negative light on AMD (I wasn't aware there was negative light on AMD since I was MIA - what did I miss?) is a coincidence.

I got a promotion which entailed moving to UAE. I moved there at the beginning of March which explains me being MIA on the forums. I haven't had much time to post until now due to relocation, etc. For 2 weeks in May I will be going to Uzbekistan and then I have a project in Kyrgyzstan, which means I'll be MIA again. Hopefully my disappearance on forums during that time will not be correlated with negative light on AMD. If it isn't obvious already, despite the conspiracy theorists, I do not work for AMD, although I did have drinks with ATIC and Global Foundries (GF) finance guys in Abu Dhabi 2 weeks ago. Good times since PC hardware is my hobby and meeting people in charge of corporate finance/strategic planning at GF is pretty awesome for a PC enthusiast.

You missed crossfire proven to be worthless and frame latency issues with AMD video cards that you happen to recommend.

Also just curious what your thoughts are on 660 SLI are since youre all about price/performance.
 

hjalti8

Member
Apr 9, 2012
100
0
76
are you guys experiencing some serius lag on desktop while mining litecoins with reaper? I cant even watch videos while mining LTC

EDIT:
@bluesqueare07

660(non-ti) SLI with 100% scaling would only be ~15% faster than a heavily oc 7950. Two 660 would be 40% more expensive (380$vs270$). Considering multi-gpu issues I think a single overclocked 7950 should deliver a better gaming experience for less money.
 
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Accord99

Platinum Member
Jul 2, 2001
2,259
172
106
are you guys experiencing some serius lag on desktop while mining litecoins with reaper? I cant even watch videos while mining LTC
I think if you want to use the desktop while mining, you can only use a maximum aggression/intensity of 13.

Strangely enough, on my 7970, the highest hash rate is achieved with a value of 13. Anything higher or lower results in a lower hash rate.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,126
738
126
You missed crossfire proven to be worthless and frame latency issues with AMD video cards that you happen to recommend.

What! How come no one told me that months ago when I bought another couple 7970s? The extra AA, graphics settings, and resolution must have been a clever ruse by AMD to make me think CF was doing something.

OT - Which mining software is currently the best for 7000 series cards? I've been using Diablominer since last year when it was the only client that worked with GCN.
 

bluesquare07

Member
Mar 10, 2013
135
0
0
What! How come no one told me that months ago when I bought another couple 7970s? The extra AA, graphics settings, and resolution must have been a clever ruse by AMD to make me think CF was doing something.

OT - Which mining software is currently the best for 7000 series cards? I've been using Diablominer since last year when it was the only client that worked with GCN.

Go look at all the reviews yourself, not even going to bother linking any if you're actually going to deny there is a problem with crossfire.
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,456
61
101
What! How come no one told me that months ago when I bought another couple 7970s? The extra AA, graphics settings, and resolution must have been a clever ruse by AMD to make me think CF was doing something.

OT - Which mining software is currently the best for 7000 series cards? I've been using Diablominer since last year when it was the only client that worked with GCN.

I've been using Guiminer, no issues for me here. I tried Cgminer but didn't like it much, and haven't had a reason to give it serious consideration.

Go look at all the reviews yourself, not even going to bother linking any if you're actually going to deny there is a problem with crossfire.

Meh, user experience < what an Nvidia developed tool says. Gotta love some random new register leaving turds all over the forum Also, you're derailing this thread, take your fanboy bs elsewhere.
 

hjalti8

Member
Apr 9, 2012
100
0
76
I think if you want to use the desktop while mining, you can only use a maximum aggression/intensity of 13.

Strangely enough, on my 7970, the highest hash rate is achieved with a value of 13. Anything higher or lower results in a lower hash rate.
thanks ,that worked.
However my 7950 does not behave like your 7970. With aggression set to 13 and gpu_thread_concurrency set to 20000 I get ~350khash but with aggression set to 19 I get ~650khash. Thats at 1130/1800(core/mem).
I guess I will just mine btc during the day and ltc at night
 

li888

Junior Member
Apr 3, 2013
9
0
0
Okay newbie to mining here, what do you guys think is the best ltc mining GPU under 200? I narrowed it down to 7850 or 7790 but I don't know which. And I also have a 7750 if that helps...
 

bluesquare07

Member
Mar 10, 2013
135
0
0
I've been using Guiminer, no issues for me here. I tried Cgminer but didn't like it much, and haven't had a reason to give it serious consideration.



Meh, user experience < what an Nvidia developed tool says. Gotta love some random new register leaving turds all over the forum Also, you're derailing this thread, take your fanboy bs elsewhere.

Excuse me, how am i leaving turds all over the forum? I'm not being offensive to anybody, the only person being a dick is you. There have been countless reviews by almost every site stating that there is an issue with crossfire, excluding the use of FCAT. You're the only person being a fanboy.
 
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railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
126
Or there is another explanation and my disappearance and negative light on AMD (I wasn't aware there was negative light on AMD since I was MIA - what did I miss?) is a coincidence.

I got a promotion which entailed moving to UAE. I moved there at the beginning of March which explains me being MIA on the forums. I haven't had much time to post until now due to relocation, etc. For 2 weeks in May I will be going to Uzbekistan and then I have a project in Kyrgyzstan, which means I'll be MIA again. Hopefully my disappearance on forums during that time will not be correlated with negative light on AMD. If it isn't obvious already, despite the conspiracy theorists, I do not work for AMD, although I did have drinks with ATIC and Global Foundries (GF) finance guys in Abu Dhabi 2 weeks ago. Good times since PC hardware is my hobby and meeting people in charge of corporate finance/strategic planning at GF is pretty awesome for a PC enthusiast.

Grats Russian! Hopefully your covert shill espionage campaign gets use some juicy info on the upcoming Radeons/GeForces!
 

x3sphere

Senior member
Jul 22, 2009
722
24
81
www.exophase.com
Okay newbie to mining here, what do you guys think is the best ltc mining GPU under 200? I narrowed it down to 7850 or 7790 but I don't know which. And I also have a 7750 if that helps...

I recommend neither... You can get a 7950 for $210 after rebates + selling the promo games.
 

Accord99

Platinum Member
Jul 2, 2001
2,259
172
106
thanks ,that worked.
However my 7950 does not behave like your 7970. With aggression set to 13 and gpu_thread_concurrency set to 20000 I get ~350khash but with aggression set to 19 I get ~650khash. Thats at 1130/1800(core/mem).
I guess I will just mine btc during the day and ltc at night
Yeah, I have a few 7950s as well and they don't have any problems with increased hash rates at high aggression levels.

In fact, they all out hash my 7970 in litecoin. It's strange but no matter what setting or program I used, the 7970 loses by about 15% at the same clock to the 7950s.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Excuse me, how am i leaving turds all over the forum? I'm not being offensive to anybody, the only person being a dick is you. There have been countless reviews by almost every site stating that there is an issue with crossfire, excluding the use of FCAT. You're the only person being a fanboy.

What the hell is your issue thread crapping in a BITCOIN thread? Go away.
 
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