Cryptocoin Mining?

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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
dropped down to like 53$ a coin on a rebound back up to 78$ a coin atm

Two summers ago, coins fell down to 15, bounced up to 20, then back down to 15, then to 17, then slowly down to $3 after that.

Will history repeat itself? Is $50 like the old $15 support level two summers ago? http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg730zczsg2011-04-30zeg2011-10-31ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

This time may be different due to broader and deeper media exposure and markets, but the flaws of btc (growing blockchain, long confirmation times, etc.) open the door to other currencies displacing btc. The usual response to that is that btc already has critical mass and resistance to 51% attacks, but they said similar things about friendster attaining critical mass (like social networks, currencies get stronger or weaker depending on how many people use them and how intensely), and look how that turned out. Fact of the matter is that a lot of people are learning about distributed currencies now and many attempts at better ones will keep getting made. And a lot of money that would otherwise go to btc will go to those instead, because who wants to be a late adopter on btc when they can scoop up bucketfuls of others for cheap in the hopes of higher returns? (Note--i actually dont agree with this logic 100% but some people obviously do, else you would not get anything for alt currencies.) And heck even miners are doing it--it's like a latecomer to a gold patch where you probably will get SOMEthing for your efforts even if it doesn't cover your cost of mining, learning about another patch where he may get zero or may get an absolutely huge return... some miners will be content to mine the existing patch and the more adventurous will go mine at the virgin patch.

Furthermore, do not overestimate how much money is in btc... The amount of money NOT in btc absolutely dwarfs btc market cap (which is less than $1 billion). This is like Friendster: it was the first big social network, but the number of Friendster users was much, MUCH fewer than the number of people NOT on Friendster. Myspace seized that opportunity and outgrew Friendster. But even Myspace wasn't that big compared to the people NOT on Myspace. That gave Facebook an opportunity to grab all the people NOT on Myspace and for a significant share of Myspacers to move over to Facebook. Once you get to Facebook-size levels of global coverage, you probably do get enough scale to fend off rivals, which is part of why Google has made such slow progress with Google+. But note that even Facebook doesn't have enough of a lead to fend off Google entirely; Google+ has been slowly gaining traction. Bitcoin is nowhere near Facebook levels. Bitcoin is more like the Friendster of digital currencies, where it is the first big network but is tiny compared to everyone NOT on the network.

So summer 2013 prices may well follow a different path than 2011.

If you guys like speculation, I recommend going into the big-boy leagues and playing with commodities derivatives, FOREX, etc. Hell even equities and bonds. Way more liquid and fun. But dont spend more than you can afford to lose on any kind of speculation--bitcoin mining, forex, stocks, or whatever.

Watching Mt.Gox arbitrarily shut itself down and limit you to $1000/day withdrawals, or $10k/month, is sketchy and not fun. I just can't trust an unprofessional exchange like the Magic the Gathering Online EXchange (which is what Mt.Gox stands for... yes that really is how bitcoins get traded, on a site originally designed for the exchange of trading cards for a kid's game). They'll probably screw up again eventually, like they did with their unsalted MD5 password fiasco a while back. We definitely need a more professional exchange, but Gox is where the liquidity is at unfortunately.

P.S. Apparently big players (market makers) get to trade on gox even when gox is officially down, according to bitcointalk chatter. I guess because the market is so thinly traded that market makers get to have that kind of leverage over gox. Not sure people knew that or not. Even less reason to trust gox.
 
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Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
I purchased a few litecoins at the 30 cent mark and mined them when the diff was low (like 20diff or so.) I saw more potential in litecoin move up from 30 cent and staying. The entire thing is pretty dumb though, when the value of a currency is so tightly coupled with its exchange hubs that it can crash due to a website then there is definitely some room to mature. Being so heavily influenced by properties that are cursory to the currency makes it very volatile, adding to the situation is the probability that most of the people trading these coins are young and very gullible to viral "cues."
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
. We definitely need a more professional exchange, but Gox is where the liquidity is at unfortunately.

Well, that is half the problem. The other half is that all the other exchanges suck too. On the big crash day, I don't think any exchange was fully usable. If someone makes a stable exchange that can handle the full volume needed, I'm sure the liquidity will move there in time.
 

AnonymouseUser

Diamond Member
May 14, 2003
9,943
107
106
Exchange instability is just an excuse. There was no way $200 BTC, or even $100 BTC, was sustainable in the short term. We can only hope it stays above $50 now.
 

hokies83

Senior member
Oct 3, 2010
837
2
76
I was selling 1/10th coins for almost 40$ each for 2-3 days there.. made a pretty penny lol

Id be happy with a steady 80 = 100usd price.
 

philipma1957

Golden Member
Jan 8, 2012
1,714
0
76
Bought a Sapphire 4L from newegg. So much better that the DD.
Put it in the slot above an xfx and undervolted, they both run about the same temp (with another xfx on top, it wouldn't run full speed it was so hot). Pretty sad.

yeah the sapphire cards are nice
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
I want to get in on this but it just sounds really frustrating and complicated to get started.

There also seems to be WAY too much drama involved in this and it looks like ASICs will make it harder for people with GPU rigs to make much of a bitcoin profit off of mining or whatever you guys call it. I've been following the Reddit for Bitcoin pretty closely...mostly to laugh at people who emptied their bank accounts to buy coins...but yea.

Someone give me advice or something, please


I have a 7950 too which probably isn't very good. I don't know how to overclock so its running at stock.

I'm also going to be living in IL this summer...so utilities may or may not be to expensive to warrant leaving my computer on all the time. I find myself gaming less and less and I end up just watching Cat videos on youtube, so maybe I should repurpose my system for when I am not doing anything.
 
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24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
39
86
I want to get in on this but it just sounds really frustrating and complicated to get started.

There also seems to be WAY too much drama involved in this and it looks like ASICs will make it harder for people with GPU rigs to make much of a bitcoin profit off of mining or whatever you guys call it. I've been following the Reddit for Bitcoin pretty closely...mostly to laugh at people who emptied their bank accounts to buy coins...but yea.

Someone give me advice or something, please


I have a 7950 too which probably isn't very good. I don't know how to overclock so its running at stock.

I'm also going to be living in IL this summer...so utilities may or may not be to expensive to warrant leaving my computer on all the time. I find myself gaming less and less and I end up just watching Cat videos on youtube, so maybe I should repurpose my system for when I am not doing anything.

If you already have the hardware and live in not high electricity cost areas then there isn't really a compelling reason not to mine crypto-currencies.
 

Rikard

Senior member
Apr 25, 2012
428
0
0
Someone give me advice or something, please
First of all, do not see this as an investment but rather a gamble. It could all die in a week, or it could be the increase in value for decades. There are just too many unknown parameters to tell. In your case you have the hardware already so your stakes are the electricity cost, plus the risk of shortening your cards life. I think the odds are in your favor that you will gain from mining on the long term. However, at the current rate mining will not get you rich and there are easier and safer ways to make money to be honest. So if you don't think it is fun, don't do it.
 

PrototypeZ

Member
Apr 8, 2013
25
0
0
Magic the Gathering Online EXchange (which is what Mt.Gox stands for... yes that really is how bitcoins get traded, on a site originally designed for the exchange of trading cards for a kid's game). They'll probably screw up again eventually, like they did with their

I don't trust MtGox at all. I mean they easily get taken down by a DDOS or slowed to a crawl. Then we learn MMs are trading on the back channel so their buys and sells are going through probably with ridiculous margins while pushing the price lower through manipulation.

As long as we are talking Magic:
Jace the Mind Sculptor > BTC > MtGox
 

hitmanx2

Senior member
Aug 27, 2004
685
0
0
I don't trust MtGox at all. I mean they easily get taken down by a DDOS or slowed to a crawl. Then we learn MMs are trading on the back channel so their buys and sells are going through probably with ridiculous margins while pushing the price lower through manipulation.

As long as we are talking Magic:
Jace the Mind Sculptor > BTC > MtGox

I am interested to see a price comparison of 1 Jace The Mind Sculptor vs 1 BTC in several years lol
 

markyh

Member
Apr 7, 2013
74
0
0
I want to get in on this but it just sounds really frustrating and complicated to get started.

Someone give me advice or something, please

I have a 7950 too which probably isn't very good. I don't know how to overclock so its running at stock.

I'm also going to be living in IL this summer...so utilities may or may not be to expensive to warrant leaving my computer on all the time. I find myself gaming less and less and I end up just watching Cat videos on youtube, so maybe I should repurpose my system for when I am not doing anything.

Don't mine Bitcoins (BTC), mine Litecoins (LTC), then exchange them into BTC and hold or sell BTC into USD.

It's currently 1.4 x as profitable to do it this way, as you will get around 1.9 LTC mined out every 24 hrs. This will reduce every week but it seems like the $$$ price and BTC/LTC price will rise to reflect this. It certainly has this week the the difficulty jumped from 293 to 323.

I mine on a single 7950 and if I converted all my LTC into $$$ daily as I go I would make around $2+ profit a day, $65+ a month. This is with $0.18 per kwh electricity costs

You will have to overclock your card to get this. I manage to average 625kh on my 7950 and for this the PC draws 280 watts. Expect to get 580-630 kh overclocked and draw from 250-280watts.

Use this calculator to work out you gain.

http://ltc.kattare.com/calc.php

This is for now though, it will reduce by the summer but..............all going to plan the LTC$ price will increase to compensate. Last week I was make $4 a day, but the BTC and LTC price has dropped a lot the last few days.

This is and excellent site for getting you started, tells you all about BTC (bitcoin), LTC (litecoin) and TRC (Terracoin).

http://cryptojunky.com/blog/

Hardware rules for LTC are that memory clocks need to be higher than core clocks on a .68 ratio (E.G. 1000 core , 1500 memory) and you need roughly 1GB of system ram per gb or ram on the GPU. So a single 7950 with 3GB needs 4GB of system ram (as you cant have 3GB!!). However 3 x 7950 = 9GB work ok with 8GB system ram.

I tried to run my 7950 with 2GB of system ram and couldn't mine over 350kh, when I upped the rig to 4GB system ram (even with Vista 32) it jumped to 630kh.

Software, GUIMiner-Scrypt and AMD Catalyst 13.3beta are both excellent.

For a decent Pool I have tried several now and have settled for the newish Give-me-ltc. Use their Stratum LTC pool. The pay very well, only a 2% fee ands pay out after a block is only confirmed 10 times, lots of others wait until 100 confirms before paying. They also allow auto withdraw with no fee from 1LTC. So you paid oout almost towice in 24hrs.

Good luck.

M

p.s. Two weeks ago I didn't own a 7950 or had never mined, just joined this forum got the hardware and went and did it. easy.
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
I replaced my "daily driver" home desktop with a Dell XPS 8500 a few weeks ago. It's default power supply was a bit weak so I was only running a 7790 in it at first, but I got a replacement power supply today and swapped in a 7970. The power supply was a sparkle 500W platinum rated part, I was somewhat limited because the Dell case is undersized and most modern high-end power supply are too long.

Running at 900mhz core, 900mhz mem*, 1050mV core voltage, fan on auto. 512MH/sec @ 212W total power usage while regular light usage and mining. If I am only mining and I turn the monitor off, power usage is about 170W. When I was running with full vCore and stock clocks, it was drawing a bit over 300W for a mere 100 more MH/sec, so I think this is a fair trade. Temperature was a scary 80C at stock clocks as well, with current settings it is running at a solid 65C without pushing the fans over 50%.

*900mhz seems to be as low as mem would go, if I set to 899 or anything lower it just defaulted back to 1500.
 

peteyo

Member
Apr 15, 2013
34
0
0
I have a rig i dont use too much anymore, why not burn some electricity. Make a buck or two hurray, if not o well.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
I have a rig i dont use too much anymore, why not burn some electricity. Make a buck or two hurray, if not o well.

With summer coming quickly, I can think of at least one reason why I wouldn't want a 24/7 space heater gulping down hundreds of watts (plus even more watts for air conditioning) and kicking me up into the next price tier for electricity. If you live in a cold area then it's not as big of a deal.
 

philipma1957

Golden Member
Jan 8, 2012
1,714
0
76
I want to get in on this but it just sounds really frustrating and complicated to get started.

There also seems to be WAY too much drama involved in this and it looks like ASICs will make it harder for people with GPU rigs to make much of a bitcoin profit off of mining or whatever you guys call it. I've been following the Reddit for Bitcoin pretty closely...mostly to laugh at people who emptied their bank accounts to buy coins...but yea.

Someone give me advice or something, please


I have a 7950 too which probably isn't very good. I don't know how to overclock so its running at stock.

I'm also going to be living in IL this summer...so utilities may or may not be to expensive to warrant leaving my computer on all the time. I find myself gaming less and less and I end up just watching Cat videos on youtube, so maybe I should repurpose my system for when I am not doing anything.
you own the gear already go to www.bitminer.com

your gpu will hash 400 to 525 depends on if you overclock it or under clock it. I under clock. this is free money for you not a lot but free. maybe 80 cents to 2 dollars a day.
 

Batmeat

Senior member
Feb 1, 2011
803
45
91
Well, I got my 7950 installed, guiminer detects that I have 0-0 Gtx 650, 1-0 Tahiti, and 1-1 core i7.

It crashed again..


What is 'NoneType' object has no attribute error? My primary video card works and so does the cpu.
 
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Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,240
2
76
I want to get in on this but it just sounds really frustrating and complicated to get started.

There also seems to be WAY too much drama involved in this and it looks like ASICs will make it harder for people with GPU rigs to make much of a bitcoin profit off of mining or whatever you guys call it. I've been following the Reddit for Bitcoin pretty closely...mostly to laugh at people who emptied their bank accounts to buy coins...but yea.

Someone give me advice or something, please


I have a 7950 too which probably isn't very good. I don't know how to overclock so its running at stock.

I'm also going to be living in IL this summer...so utilities may or may not be to expensive to warrant leaving my computer on all the time. I find myself gaming less and less and I end up just watching Cat videos on youtube, so maybe I should repurpose my system for when I am not doing anything.

God good why come here?


Power is pretty cheap though
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Price is up a good bit this morning, sold a few at $85. Since it's me selling, this inevitably means price will increase even higher in a short time, to make my choice of selling terrible. TBH I wouldn't mind that too much, as it will ensure that mining remains profitable for a long time.

Batmeat: I'm not sure anyone else runs AMD & nvidia cards in the same box, mining. I'd try removing your 650 and seeing if that will stop the crashing.

FYI, you can game and mine just fine with most programs, if you have intensity set low enough. The defaults in guiminer are good enough that I can play just about any 3d game while mining and not even notice the mining in the background. MH/sec will take a hit while in game, but it's better than shutting off your miner completely.
 

Batmeat

Senior member
Feb 1, 2011
803
45
91
You guys having issues should all be using bitminter. It's so simple and it performs extremely well.

Bitminter eh? Ill Check it out when I'm off work. Can u give a quick rundown of it? I'm at work can't get online with the work computers so I'm currently using my phone
 
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