Cryptocoin Mining?

[UaVaj]

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/en...ifu-guo-creator-of-the-first-asic-based-miner


80 gigahashes x 15 = 1200 gigahashes

 

[Xarick]

If all you want to do is mine:

https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage/5-gh-s-bitcoin-miner.html

Cheaper than a 7950 and uses less power.

 

[UaVaj]

If all you want to do is mine:

https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage/5-gh-s-bitcoin-miner.html

Cheaper than a 7950 and uses less power.

10x the mining. make back your money in how many days?

how many of these can one person buy? getting rich over night if one bought 100k plus (at least that is what i got into my other hobby) worth of these BitForce Jalapeno miner.

 

[Rikard]

10x the mining. make back your money in how many days?

how many of these can one person buy? getting rich over night if one bought 100k plus (at least that is what i got into my other hobby) worth of these BitForce Jalapeno miner.

He forgot to mention the part that none of these have found their way to the consumers... A lot of people think it is a scam, I think they are just late. By the time they come it could be hard for them to even make back the initial investment, depending on how late they come...

 

[3DVagabond]

Want to do something interesting? This thread started ~2yrs. ago. Go back to the first page and the conversation hasn't really changed much. For 2yrs. some people have been making money at this, and for 2yrs. some people have been trying to play it down. Here we are 2 years later same circle jerk. Why don't the naysayers just leave the thread to the people that are applying it? Except for that, everything else posted in here is just BS.

 

[philipma1957]

He forgot to mention the part that none of these have found their way to the consumers... A lot of people think it is a scam, I think they are just late. By the time they come it could be hard for them to even make back the initial investment, depending on how late they come...

This I am still waiting on mine. At least they have finally shown working models. There is a video . They will pull 35 watts to mine 5Gh.

I pull 1700 watts to mine 5Gh with gpus (from oct to march think free heat) Stating in April ending in Sept.
Think extra AC.

So far this april I had to ac the house 2 or 3 days, but my heating bill for this april is gong to be $0. Normally it would be 75 in April

 

[Rikard]

This I am still waiting on mine. At least they have finally shown working models. There is a video . They will pull 35 watts to mine 5Gh.

I pull 1700 watts to mine 5Gh with gpus (from oct to march think free heat) Stating in April ending in Sept.
Think extra AC.

So far this april I had to ac the house 2 or 3 days, but my heating bill for this april is gong to be $0. Normally it would be 75 in April

I was interested in getting one but check this calculation out:

• Already now the difficulty is rising really fast, and we only have a handful of ASICs in operation. Once batch 2 and 3 of Avalon are up and running difficulty will go through the roof. I do no know how many there are in relation to GPU hash rate, but lets guestimate the monthly increase to 100%.
• If you order one today, you could get one in three months if you are really lucky. So with the assumption above, the difficulty will be 80000000.
• Price including shipping (to EU) is 370 USD.
• Assume BTC/USD is same as today on average.
• The assumptions above means you break even after 14 weeks.
• If the difficulty is steadily increasing with 100% per month for a year you will be able to pocket a whooping 188 USD after operating it for a full year.

The reason why I brought up difficulty earlier is that it is the largest source of uncertainty. It could increase both faster and slower compared to what I guessed here. If you get one of these next week, you will be rolling in money, if not, sorry the tech will be outdated on arrival.

 

[Keysplayr]

So if I get my cube within 7 days I'll be rolling in cash. But in 10-12 weeks time the tech will be obsolete or outdated? Not buying it. The only thing that i'm buying is someone trying to cast doubt or discourage investing in this is someone concerned about oversaturation of the bitcoin market. In fact, its a miracle that bitcoins are publicly discussed at all if less saturation means each cmined coin is worth more. If it wasn't more of a scam then everyone would be tight lipped about it.

 

[Rikard]

So if I get my cube within 7 days I'll be rolling in cash. But in 10-12 weeks time the tech will be obsolete or outdated? Not buying it. The only thing that i'm buying is someone trying to cast doubt or discourage investing in this is someone concerned about oversaturation of the bitcoin market. In fact, its a miracle that bitcoins are publicly discussed at all if less saturation means each cmined coin is worth more. If it wasn't more of a scam then everyone would be tight lipped about it.

You believe what you want of course. I was tight lipped about it when I thought that it would actually work out to give me a good revenue. But, since I will not be investing in it, I might as well tell you why. There is nothing lost for me by doing that you see.

 

[Keysplayr]

You believe what you want of course. I was tight lipped about it when I thought that it would actually work out to give me a good revenue. But, since I will not be investing in it, I might as well tell you why. There is nothing lost for me by doing that you see.

Ok. I could understand that. But where are you getting your time frame for obsolescence? What changes do you see for a 5GH/s device 3 months down the road, and what does that say about current gpu users chances of mining successfully by that time if a 5GH device can't?

 

[Xarick]

How are people making money on this? One 7950 OC to run 600Mh/s consuming electric at a cost of .067/KHW at 8 hours a day (this is because people say run your card overnight when it isn't being used) seems to only net $400 a year at current rate.
Unless my math is completely off.

 

[Zargon]

anyone recently setup up cgminer in windows?

going through the install process on my newest rig results in failure

 

[Rikard]

Ok. I could understand that. But where are you getting your time frame for obsolescence? What changes do you see for a 5GH/s device 3 months down the road, and what does that say about current gpu users chances of mining successfully by that time if a 5GH device can't?

Well, it is very hard to predict the future, and I have no better crystal ball than you do. However, it is a fact that the total hash rate is increasing, and will increase a good bit more due to Avalons turning on now. This means that the difficulty can only increase. But by how much? I guestimated it to double every month, but surely that cannot hold up indefinitely and should flatten out at some point. The price fluctuations as a function of time is another matter, but I think it is actually less of a concern if you have an Avalon in your basement today; you will only get really rich instead of insanely rich. The best known parameter is electricity cost, it cannot double in a month, which the other parameters easily can.

With these caveats in mind, I think it is reasonable that the average BTC value will stay close to what it is now when averaged over a long time. If the difficulty does not increase so much, you could buy an ASIC today and still mine with a healthy profit when you get it (sometime after Summer?). In that case, it might still be worthwhile to mine with GPUs. However if the existing ASICs, mainly the upcoming shipments of Avalons, pushes the difficulty into astronomical values you might make some money with a late Jalapeno, but it could take you a very long time before you get a return of your investment. I do not know what the difficulty will be once you get your ASIC miner, but I do know that you should definitely not base potential profits on today's difficulty!

 

[philipma1957]

How are people making money on this? One 7950 OC to run 600Mh/s consuming electric at a cost of .067/KHW at 8 hours a day (this is because people say run your card overnight when it isn't being used) seems to only net $400 a year at current rate.
Unless my math is completely off.

I make money with gpu only but I have multiple cards on multiple machines. If you build a new gamer with 1 card and mine 8 hours each day you won't make money. What you will do is get a 1000 usd dollar gamer at a discount.


Starting A gpu farm in the Northern Hemisphere should be done in late sept . Why you will reduce your heating bill. Starting a gpu farm today in the USA with warm weather coming up and asics coming up is not the way to go. But builder a new gamer/miner is not a bad move.

look at these small but powerful machines I built.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2268192&highlight=

they are all solid gamers..
they all run
a hd7970 card. about-- 400
a good psu -------------100
a legit windows 7----- 120
2x 4gb ram -------------40

256gb msata ----------180
fans cpu cooler---------60
case---------------------40
asrock mobos-----------150

total here is 1090

add for a cpu and a dvd or blu ray

i5 3470 i7 3770t i7 3770k the 1100 is 300 to 400 more total for a high end small gamer is 1300 - 1500. but it is a top of the line gamer at the 1 card level. as it has a hd7970 and a i53570k. so lets say you waited for deals and put it together for 1300. you hash it at mining 12 hours a day. in a good power spot 10 cents a k watt. these 1300 gamers will by discounted down to 400 or less after a year. Look at the thread date for these machines and figure out that I paid far less then the 1300 to 1500 a piece once you realize the hashing I did with them.

 

[blastingcap]

I make money with gpu only but I have multiple cards on multiple machines. If you build a new gamer with 1 card and mine 8 hours each day you won't make money. What you will do is get a 1000 usd dollar gamer at a discount.


Starting A gpu farm in the Northern Hemisphere should be done in late sept . Why you will reduce your heating bill. Starting a gpu farm today in the USA with warm weather coming up and asics coming up is not the way to go. But builder a new gamer/miner is not a bad move.

Difficulty will keep exploding. Avalon ASIC batch 2 is supposed to be TWICE as big as batch 1 and is apparently starting to ship, and then there is batch 3. Add that to the FPGA/GPUs coming online and unless BTC prices continue to rise, there is no way you'd hit $1k anytime soon. You can subsidize a gaming rig, but to hit $1k profits with it at 8 hours a day even if you have zero-cost electricity would take years. September is 5 months away, too hard to predict difficulty/price ratio that far out for BTC or any alt-coins.

Edit: As Rail pointed out, I apparently misread your statement to mean $1k profits. I agree that you can subsidize the cost of a gaming rig with mining right now, as GPU mining can still make a little money for the time being.

 

[railven]

Difficulty will keep exploding. Avalon ASIC batch 2 is supposed to be TWICE as big as batch 1 and is apparently starting to ship, and then there is batch 3. Add that to the FPGA/GPUs coming online and unless BTC prices continue to rise, there is no way you'd hit $1k anytime soon. You can subsidize a gaming rig, but to hit $1k profits with it at 8 hours a day even if you have zero-cost electricity would take years. September is 5 months away, too hard to predict difficulty/price ratio that far out for BTC or any alt-coins.

Odd, I didn't infer at all he said you'd make $1,000. Seems you both said the exact same thing in regards to discounting the $1,000 gaming rig.

 

[Rikard]

I make money with gpu only but I have multiple cards on multiple machines. If you build a new gamer with 1 card and mine 8 hours each day you won't make money. What you will do is get a 1000 usd dollar gamer at a discount.


Starting A gpu farm in the Northern Hemisphere should be done in late sept . Why you will reduce your heating bill. Starting a gpu farm today in the USA with warm weather coming up and asics coming up is not the way to go. But builder a new gamer/miner is not a bad move.

Another way of putting it, if you are building a gaming rig today, it would be stupid to not get a HD7950/HD7970 since there is still time to make money mining and thereby lower the effective cost of your purchase. But it will not make you rich.

 

[Cloudfire777]

If you REALLY want to mine with GPUs and build a mining farm, hunt down 5850/5870 cards instead. Much better performance/price on mining than 7970

 

[thilanliyan]

If you REALLY want to mine with GPUs and build a mining farm, hunt down 5850/5870 cards instead. Much better performance/price on mining than 7970

I believe the 7 series cards have a better MHash/watt however.

 

[markyh]

I believe the 7 series cards have a better MHash/watt however.

Correct. the 7950 is the most effeicient. in a single card basic rig it can do 500m/hsh @ 200 watts. That's 2.5 m/hash a watt.

With all this talk of ASIC's I beleive for the difficulty to double the network hashrate has to double? It has already doubled since February from 32.5 t/hash to 65.73 t/hash. GPU mining still makes money @ 2-2.5 megahash a watt.

How many 5G/H BFL ASICS need to be running to double the network rate again?

Well you do realise that 1 terahash is one million megahash? So network rate today in megahash is :

65,730,000 megahash. And all network hashrate in february was GPU and FPGA then lets assume that today 40 terahash is GPU and FPGA miners and 26 terahash is ASICS (to high I think).

So to double the network in the next two months BFL would have to ship 13146 jalapenos (now called 5/gh single miners).

(65,730,000 / 5000 = 13146)

Lets also assume all the preorders from 2012 and early 2013 before the BTC price jumped massively where the 3146 at the old $150 price.

3146 x $150 = $471900. Now lets assume the other 10000 are at the new price of $274. 10000 x $274 = $2,740,000.

total of $3.21m sales in 12 months. (Maybe??)

As they say the way to mke money out of a gold rush is to sell pickaxes to the miners!!

I just don't think BFL and all the other ASIC makers are quick enough to get this many ASICs out this quickly. Not to mention the drop out of GPU miners that need to be replaced once $/BTC mined in a day drops below the cost of electricity at say $0.10c kwh.

M

 

[Rikard]

Correct. the 7950 is the most effeicient. in a single card basic rig it can do 500m/hsh @ 200 watts. That's 2.5 m/hash a watt.

With all this talk of ASIC's I beleive for the difficulty to double the network hashrate has to double? It has already doubled since February from 32.5 t/hash to 65.73 t/hash. GPU mining still makes money @ 2-2.5 megahash a watt.

How many 5G/H BFL ASICS need to be running to double the network rate again?

Well you do realise that 1 terahash is one million megahash? So network rate today in megahash is :

65,730,000 megahash. And all network hashrate in february was GPU and FPGA then lets assume that today 40 terahash is GPU and FPGA miners and 26 terahash is ASICS (to high I think).

So to double the network in the next two months BFL would have to ship 13146 jalapenos (now called 5/gh single miners).

(65,730,000 / 5000 = 13146)

Lets also assume all the preorders from 2012 and early 2013 before the BTC price jumped massively where the 3146 at the old $150 price.

3146 x $150 = $471900. Now lets assume the other 10000 are at the new price of $274. 10000 x $274 = $2,740,000.

total of $3.21m sales in 12 months. (Maybe??)

As they say the way to mke money out of a gold rush is to sell pickaxes to the miners!!

I just don't think BFL and all the other ASIC makers are quick enough to get this many ASICs out this quickly. Not to mention the drop out of GPU miners that need to be replaced once $/BTC mined in a day drops below the cost of electricity at say $0.10c kwh.

M

From the website:
Avalon batch 1: 300*60 Gh/s, Shipping Time: March 3st, 2013
Avalon batch 2: 600*60 Gh/s, Shipping Time: April 15th, 2013
Avalon batch 3: 600*60 Gh/s, Shipping Time: May 5st, 2013

If this is true that means 90 Th/s of Avalon only ASIC in operation within a month. That is more than twice the total hash rate of today. If they can keep up 600 units every 20 days that means an increase of 54 Th/s a month. And what if they expand business and increase production capability? Add to that BFL and other manufacturers coming online to join the party.

 

[Zargon]

they dont plan on making anymore asics


and it takes 2+ weeks for them to ship.....because they are coming from china

 

[UaVaj]

From the website:
Avalon batch 1: 300*60 Gh/s, Shipping Time: March 3st, 2013
Avalon batch 2: 600*60 Gh/s, Shipping Time: April 15th, 2013
Avalon batch 3: 600*60 Gh/s, Shipping Time: May 5st, 2013

If this is true that means 90 Th/s of Avalon only ASIC in operation within a month. That is more than twice the total hash rate of today. If they can keep up 600 units every 20 days that means an increase of 54 Th/s a month. And what if they expand business and increase production capability? Add to that BFL and other manufacturers coming online to join the party.

this is the most epic dumbest business model ever in history.

if these asic machine are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo profitable. why sell them? seriously. just mine them all in house as soon as it is made. then sell the bitcoins instead.

reality is - it is not a dumb business model at all. these manufactuer obviously have inside info regarding bitcoin's future viability. hence it is more profitable to sell these asic machine.

what does that tell you ???

 

[blastingcap]

they dont plan on making anymore asics


and it takes 2+ weeks for them to ship.....because they are coming from china

I think they don't plan on SELLING any more current-generation ASICs, which is an entirely different thing than saying they don't plan on making any more ASICs. They could make batches for their own use and profit, which as many people have pointed out, is more profitable right now than selling the ASICs. So if they are secretly making a fourth batch just for their own use, don't be surprised... it makes good business sense.

 

[smithkt]

This thread is making my head hurt with all the banter about whether it's worth it or not. Putting this debate aside for a moment I have a few questions for those in favor:

1) Solo or pool? Which is better? Recommended Pools?
2) Preferred client? Why?
3) Main rig currently has one 7970@1100. Was planning to add another for gaming anyway. I also have a 4890 lying around collecting dust. Can it generate enough to make it worth setting up as a 24/7 miner in an older box. Assume the electricity rate is approximately .15/kwh. Using a linux distro to run the older box would save a Windows license. Does the CPU play any role in this?

I apologize if these questions are already answered, but it's hard sifting through all the arguments.