Cryptocoin Mining?

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nwo

Platinum Member
Jun 21, 2005
2,308
0
71
What is going on at Netcodepool? I can't seem to get in. I saw the dashboard briefly about ~15 minutes ago, but it failed during refresh and I haven't been able to get it back.

Major changes going on today. I am experiencing the same issue as you. However, I am still mining and getting all the rewards that come with it. So not much to complain about. I would like to cash out and convert on cryptsy, but I guess I will just have to wait it out until tomorrow.
 

geokilla

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 2006
2,012
3
81
No one wants to buy my LTC... Now my LTC is stuck on CoinedUp

Should I trade my 0.35405928 LTC for BTC? Or DOGE?
 

Kallogan

Senior member
Aug 2, 2010
340
5
76
yep dumping is on
Let them do the job for us bagholders.

Errfff going to bed. Europe's not awake anymore
 
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KentState

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2001
8,397
393
126
What is going on at Netcodepool? I can't seem to get in. I saw the dashboard briefly about ~15 minutes ago, but it failed during refresh and I haven't been able to get it back.

And are those prices on Cryptsy really legit? 1 Doge = 0.00023100 BTC? If that was really true it would mean I mined a few thousand bucks of Doge on a crappy 7750 over about two days. That can't be right, can it? (And if it is, how do I convert the Doge to cash money ASAP?)

I can't even connect to the pool. I stopped cgminer earlier to play BF4 and wasn't able to get going afterwards.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,674
146
106
www.neftastic.com
netcodepool pools are back up and running (for the moment), dashboard is still borked. However, I highly suggest fast-pool.com as an alternative doge mining pool at the moment.

There's actually a crapload of doge pools around now anyway.
 

Kosmic1

Member
Dec 15, 2013
30
0
0
Guys, this is the bleeding edge. Things are going to be messy like this. Don't be day-traders, do it for the long-haul, and don't get married to any one coin.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Fun fact, if you "mine and hold" or "buy and hold" and bitcoin goes to zero, you lose everything--in fact, miners may actually lose more. For example, if a bitcoin buyer buys 5 coins at $100 each and it goes to zero, he loses $500. If a miner mines his way to an equal number of coins but spends $500 in electricity and his hardware loses $200 in value in the meantime, he is down $700. This is why a lot of people sell off a portion of their coins as they mine, so that they will at least cover their electric bills each month. If you simply hold them, you are gambling--just like the buyer of coins. In which case you might as well just buy coins directly and skip the mining unless you would have bought the mining GPU(s) for non-mining reasons.

As for married to a coin... all coins are married to bitcoin. If bitcoin drops, well, you have seen what has happened to the value of other coins in the last 48 hours. A few holdout coins may resist briefly due to weird memes or whatever, but in the end, the value of all alt-coins is tied to bitcoin.
 

dfuze

Lifer
Feb 15, 2006
11,953
0
71
netcodepool pools are back up and running (for the moment), dashboard is still borked. However, I highly suggest fast-pool.com as an alternative doge mining pool at the moment.

There's actually a crapload of doge pools around now anyway.

Thanks for the tip, hated that netcodepool has been wonky all day, especially on the day I get my new card D:
 

Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
9,811
110
106
Fun fact, if you "mine and hold" or "buy and hold" and bitcoin goes to zero, you lose everything--in fact, miners may actually lose more.

You act like that is a serious consideration.

Bitcoin "survived" at values below $1 for the first years of it's life, and even below $.01 for a long time.

There is only so many coins out there, and there is at this point a rather large amount of real commercial business working with bitcoin. Coinbase, all the various ASIC manufacturers, mtgox, other exchanges.

I suspect that there is a lower bound to the value of bitcoin. If a business has invested $5 million in bitcoin technology or infrastructure, why wouldn't they invest a similar amount of money in buying up super cheap bitcoin if the value did catastrophically fall?
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
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Fun fact, if you "mine and hold" or "buy and hold" and bitcoin goes to zero, you lose everything--in fact, miners may actually lose more.

We've been over this, you fail to take into account mining hardware can instantly switch to a lucrative altcoin anytime. In your example, the buyer lost everything to a coin he invested $$ in. The miner lost some electricity bills used to get that now worthless coin. But now he still has hardware, he is printing $ in a new alt coin.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Chiro, I don't think that will happen, but other people--affiliated with companies that stand to gain by selling video cards--have argued the old "omg I can't buy direct, what if it goes to zero, at least I can sell mining equipment" argument. That is not necessarily true depending on a wide variety of factors including electricity cost and whether you were going to buy a GPU anyway. (Note the "at least I can sell mining equipment" argument only makes sense if you were going to buy above and beyond what you were going to buy anyway--thus it's kind of a false argument.) Earlier in the thread, I already went over an example of what your risk vs reward was if you mined litecoin vs bought it on Jan. 1, 2013 and you would have made 10-20 times more money buying direct than mining. What sophists would like to ignore is that power costs are irrecoverable. No matter what happens to coin prices or difficulty or whatever, you will have paid those power bills and depreciated your hardware and have nothing to show for it if coins go to zero, same as the guy who bought direct, and in some cases the miner actually hurts more if the miner mined for a long time or paid high electric prices or both.

I've crunched the numbers, and in general since the very beginning, assuming you don't have very cheap or free power, it's been more profitable to buy directly than to mine. You can have periods of time where that isn't true, but in general that has been true since the beginning.

P.S. The whole "you can switch to mining other altcoins" argument is completely wrong as you can see from historical data and from what happened over the last week when bitcoins plummeted. Bitcoin is the king of all coins and wherever it goes, the servants (other "coins") follow. This has always been true and always will be true so long as bitcoin's market cap is orders of magnitude larger than its rivals. You can have temporary fluctuations but so far the only coin that has managed to do much vs. bitcoin has been litecoin and even litecoin rises and falls based on bitcoin, to a huge degree. For instance the current bitcoin plunge has hurt litecoin more than bitcoin, as a percentage.

The grizzled veterans over at bitcointalk have been going over technical analysis suggesting that the current market will bottom out somewhere in the $200-400 range with a possibility of dropping more than that. Lucifer's prediction several days ago was that it would take 1-2 years before we'd enter another bull market.
 
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IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,440
5,429
136
"Technical analysis" is BS...

Even if $200-$400 is quite likely.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
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Overall the entire crypto economy revolves around BTC, we already know that. What you say is nothing new to anyone.

But we're not talking bitcoins, we're talking fluctuations in alt coin ratios to BTC. Anytime an altcoin that you invest $ or hardware in to mine crashes, the miner can switch his hardware to another altcoin that hasn't crashed. For example, go and buy a lot of Tickets, watch it crash and burn in its ratio to BTC.. you lost $. The miner is now happily mining Doge (or any other altcoin that still has good value).
 

Kosmic1

Member
Dec 15, 2013
30
0
0
Like it or not, cryptos are the future. Non-debt, non private bank issued currency that cannot be inflated is something that will eventually topple the fiat monetary system. Therefore, expect governments to attempt to crush it and expect massive price swings.

Think back to when the internet was first catching on. Lots of people thought it was a fad that would go away. They ended up being 10-15 years behind the curve.

Cryptos are the same, but now we have the internet so that all of those doubters can be heard (or read) easily.

Even though I don't like the whole crypto currency thing, I accept that it is the future and it is here to stay, therefore I will act accordingly.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Overall the entire crypto economy revolves around BTC, we already know that. What you say is nothing new to anyone.

But we're not talking bitcoins, we're talking fluctuations in alt coin ratios to BTC. Anytime an altcoin that you invest $ or hardware in to mine crashes, the miner can switch his hardware to another altcoin that hasn't crashed. For example, go and buy a lot of Tickets, watch it crash and burn in its ratio to BTC.. you lost $. The miner is now happily mining Doge (or any other altcoin that still has good value).

You have dogecoin as your counterexample? A memecoin in a bubble? Seriously? Look at the last 4 years of cryptocurrency exchange rates. There are extremely few coins that are worth anything of note and as bitcoin rose in value, they all tended to rise in value. When bitcoin sank, they all tended to sink. Bitcoin's network effect is massive, Litecoin is barely there, and everything else has basically no infrastructure. You are basically pointing to the memecoin of the day that is temporarily bucking trends (easy to do when there is so little liquidity and with so few coins on exchanges), and ignoring 4 years of data showing the high correlation between bitcoin's value and that of other alt-coins. Your argument is basically that anytime bitcoin crashes, it's fine because some hugely profitable memecoin will come save the day so you can switch to mining that one instead. Lol.

Thing is, one commodity leading the way for others isn't a new phenomenon. When investors fled to gold out of fear, it had a halo effect that drove up the price of other precious metals. When the same investors fled, the halo effect dragged down the prices of other precious metals as well.

All of this is common knowledge among veteran traders, but hey, what do I know, I've only traded various commodities and currencies (real life currencies) for years. Apparently dogecoin is the superstar exception and isn't a bubble. It's a totally serious coin. I can totally see VC firms putting $25 million into dogecoin rather than bitcoin because dogecoin is going to the mooooon. Much wow. Dogecoin's bubble is totally sustainable.

Further, there is no guarantee that even if there is always a bubbly profitable coin that it will be best mined on AMD GPUs. It may in fact be better-mined on CPUs or NV GPUs, or something else entirely.
 
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Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
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Doge is an example. There are many others, any time of day there are fluctuations in profitability of other alt coins: MEC, Worldcoin, Digitalcoin, Fastcoins etc etc, they can rise in price or fall.

You still haven't addressed my example, you invest $ in Tickets/Digitalcoin (whatever), buy a lot. It tanks in value (ratio of BTC), the investor loses $. The miner switches to another coin that hasn't tank. Capiche?

Hardware is still there, in reality. Your investment, poof, to the clouds. You trying to make mining seem AS Risky as investing $$ to buy coins is ridiculous to the extreme. The level of risk is nowhere as close.

Edit: There's a perfect example of this a few pages back, user buys coins with euros, made a calculation error, poof.. money gone. If he had bought a GPU to mine, it would still be there and if his preferred coin loses value he can mine another. The risk is in the order of magnitude less to buy hardware to mine, but so is the potential reward, much less than investing $ to buy coins. Like everything, risk vs rewards.
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Doge is an example. There are many others, any time of day there are fluctuations in profitability of other alt coins: MEC, Worldcoin, Digitalcoin, Fastcoins etc etc, they can rise in price or fall.

You still haven't addressed my example, you invest $ in Tickets/Digitalcoin (whatever), buy a lot. It tanks in value (ratio of BTC), the investor loses $. The miner switches to another coin that hasn't tank. Capiche?

Hardware is still there, in reality. Your investment, poof, to the clouds. You trying to make mining seem AS Risky as investing $$ to buy coins is ridiculous to the extreme. The level of risk is nowhere as close.

Edit: There's a perfect example of this a few pages back, user buys coins with euros, made a calculation error, poof.. money gone. If he had bought a GPU to mine, it would still be there and if his preferred coin loses value he can mine another. The risk is in the order of magnitude less to buy hardware to mine, but so is the potential reward, much less than investing $ to buy coins. Like everything, risk vs rewards.

Actually, I have addressed your tired point over and over again. See above.

And now your arguments are getting more and more ludicrous, you are using some guy's fat finger or brain fart or whatever as an argument for mining? Seriously? So if he accidentally pushed the wrong button and made a ton of money, would that be an argument for buying direct? If you insist on bringing up "fat finger" arguments, then you need to account for lucky fat fingers.

Further, if you insist on including stuff like that, why not also include low-probability-but-high-consequence mining accidents? For instance, if your power supply had a latent defect and it burns up while mining in the middle of the night, setting fire to your home and half of your block, and kills you and your family as well as handing your next of kin a bunch of lawsuits from angry neighbors, how much is that worth? More or less than what you'd lose from a "fat finger" accident?

Anyway, we've been over this time and again. You are ignoring depreciation and power costs. Most people do not have free power (and even "free" power isn't really free--someone's paying for it, and we all pay for it in terms of greenhouse gas emissions). The power costs are non-recoverable and after months of mining it really starts to add up to hundreds, then thousands of dollars--much more than the cost of the GPUs themselves. As for GPUs, they do break and depreciate. I've had one fan go bust and another GPU die, for instance. Even if video cards survive the torture of mining, current prices are pretty risky because their value as gaming cards is lower than current market rates. For instance, a few months ago HD7950s were going for $150 brand new when on sale. Bitcoin was $100 back then. If bitcoin drops to $100 again, those HD7950s may well sell for less than $150 (used mining cards less valuable than virgin, unused, new-in-box 7950s). The last time you seriously attempted to argue this, you wound up assuming that the miner lived on a Canadian glacier with cheap hydro power or whatever and thus could mine year round without heat and power issues that most miners have to face. I wish I were joking, but you actually argued that. And yes, I agree that in extreme cases like that, mining isn't as risky. But few of us live on Canadian glaciers next to a hydro dam. You can always find exceptions, like a Hawaiian guy attempting to mine at 47 cents/kWh (their power is produced from burning oil, which is among the most expensive ways to produce electricity).
 
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