Cryptocoin Mining?

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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Assuming Doge won't crash in the next month, if you grab an R290 today it will pay for itself in a few weeks. Crazy wow profits!

A few other scrypt alt coins are also excellent in profitability too!

Says one of the forumers here who works for a hardware company with a vested interest in getting people to buy more GPUs to improve the company's profits. Such self-serving! Much eyeroll.

The bolded part is hilarious. Wow optimism! So cracksmoking!
 
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Feb 19, 2009
10,457
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The bolded part was hilarious. Wow optimism! Such cracksmoking!

My only vested interest is in a giant pile of Doge i gained via trading, which started with a small pile via mining.

The more people that jump on Doge, the more resilient it will be in the long run, win for all! To the moon!

ps. What exactly is your vested interest since you keep on recommending people away from mining and to spend their $$ buying coins instead? There's a long history of you doing that in this thread, its quite obvious.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,440
5,429
136
Says one of the forumers here who works for a hardware company with a vested interest in getting people to buy more GPUs to improve the company's profits. Such self-serving! Much eyeroll.

The bolded part is hilarious. Wow optimism! So cracksmoking!

You're hardly a neutral party...
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
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My 780 GHz flashed to skynet 780 Gaming Bios, overclocked somewhat...



500 watts for 612 KH/s...

At least I know my power delivery system can handle retarded amounts of consumption!

What if you turn down the OC and go for efficiency, can you get 500 kHa/s at 300W? Really interesting stuff this CUDA miner.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
My only vested interest is in a giant pile of Doge i gained via trading, which started with a small pile via mining.

The more people that jump on Doge, the more resilient it will be in the long run, win for all! To the moon!

ps. What exactly is your vested interest since you keep on recommending people away from mining and to spend their $$ buying coins instead? There's a long history of you doing that in this thread, its quite obvious.

Others in this thread have crunched the numbers and have come up with the same result: more profitable to buy than to mine. Furthermore, many if not most people at bitcointalk.org also agree that it's easier and more profitable to buy and hold than to mine; this is based on numbers dating back to 2009 so it's not just a one-year thing. The only reason why the whole "mine instead of buy" mentality is strong here is because this is a tech forum. And there is one case where it's better to mine, and that's if you would have bought the card for other reasons like gaming; everybody agrees that is low risk. But mining en masse is almost as risky as buying direct (possibly riskier; some people may pay more than average USA power rates of ~10 c/kWh for instance), and a LOT less profitable:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35862012&postcount=7385
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35834147&postcount=119

You're hardly a neutral party...

And you are? Don't shoot the messenger. Do the math yourself and see for yourself.
 
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Feb 19, 2009
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You cannot be serious and recommend the average joe to invest real $$, their hard earned savings, into buying crypto coins as an investment. The crypto market shed nearly half its value, or over 5B in recent times. A lot of people lost a LOT of money with the recent market trauma.

You call me optimistic when I say an R290 pays for itself in a few weeks. That's not optimism, thats history, its repeated here over and over. For someone who isn't keen sensed on markets, mining is infinitely safer with lower rewards.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,440
5,429
136
Others in this thread have crunched the numbers and have come up with the same result. Furthermore, many people at bitcointalk.org also agree that it's easier and more profitable to buy and hold than to mine. This is a widely held belief backed up by numbers.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35862012&postcount=7385
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35834147&postcount=119

And you are? I like how my critics don't do the math themselves and when I show them, they just ignore it and come up with extreme examples like people living on Canadian glaciers with cheap hydro power or whatever.

Few people are disagreeing with you that trading coins is more profitable than mining (barring extreme luck/early adoption). What they are arguing is that mining is still profitable.

Case in point:

I spent roughly $3500 on hardware a few months ago to get me above 5 MH/s in scrypt mining capacity.

My power is cheap (<0.09 a kWh) and I am using all the waste heat. Granted I have a heat pump so the COP being higher than 1, I am not saving on the heat bill.

So, by my calculations, I'm using ~$5-7 extra power per day. Which as you will see is peanuts compared to my profit:

In the past two months I averaged over $50/day in realized LTC mining gains, until I switched to DOGE last week.
In the past week I have averaged $250+/day converting DOGE --> BTC --> USD.

Granted that rate is likely going to slow or even disappear in the future, but because all my mining expenditures (video cards, mobos, power, etc.) are more than paid for, it only makes sense for me to continue mining and gaining incremental profits while it is still profitable.

Could I have done better doing more trading on the side? Sure thing. But I'm certainly not losing money by mining scrypt coins.
 

wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
0
0
@blastingcap

What you fail to see, or miss the point on, is that some people use mining to pay off GPUs, make a few $, and just see what happens. Sure you can make more by trading or investing, but you can lose everything. An electric bill is a small investment to some who would not otherwise get involved. Is it the *best* way to make a fortune? Clearly not.

I actually see the point you are making, but I don't understand the hostility towards Silverforce11. Both of you have valid and reasonable positions. The question is whether you choose to get involved via mining or investing. The fact you can pay off your GPU for free is icing on the cake to some of us who will/would buy a gpu or two anyway.
 
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Kallogan

Senior member
Aug 2, 2010
340
5
76
I think at the moment, the neat thing is to do both. One decent enough rig to mine early coins at very low diff like crazy, something like 2x R9 290 plus a little cash to multiply your striking power when the coin just it an exchange and you see potential in it enough to buy some while it's low.

I think it's hard to fail that way in the long run. You will take the right train one day or another, just a matter of patience.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
You cannot be serious and recommend the average joe to invest real $$, their hard earned savings, into buying crypto coins as an investment. The crypto market shed nearly half its value, or over 5B in recent times. A lot of people lost a LOT of money with the recent market trauma.

You call me optimistic when I say an R290 pays for itself in a few weeks. That's not optimism, thats history, its repeated here over and over. For someone who isn't keen sensed on markets, mining is infinitely safer with lower rewards.

I specifically excluded situations where someone would have bought mining equipment ANYWAY even if coins were worthless. We're not talking about a gamer who mines on the side. I specifically excluded that situation already because we both agree on it. Once again, I am not saying mining is not profitable. I'm also excluding situations where people were gonna buy a R9 290 anyway regardless of whether bitcoins go to zero tomorrow or not. And yes some people are hobbyists who would literally mine for a LOSS, but I'm not talking about those situations. I'm talking strictly about profitability. If you honestly don't care if coins go to zero tomorrow or not, then I'm not talking about people like you.

If you DO care about profits, then I'd encourage people to crunch the numbers before risking hard-earned money because some guy told you mining was low risk--even though it is almost as risky as buying direct, in the long run!


In the example above, if you spent $700 buying litecoin at the beginning of 2013, you would have just as many litecoins as someone who spent $7500 mining. Paying $700 is a LOT less risk than paying $7500. Even if the currency goes to zero, the guy who buys $700 loses only up to $700. The guy who bought $7500 in mining equipment and power bills would have lost thousands of dollars in power bills and hardware depreciation costs (CPU, mobo, PSU, RAM, GPUs, and yes if bitcoin went to zero tomorrow it would drag alt-coins with it to zero, and GPU prices would go back to normal, like $150 or less for a used 7950). See above links, in this particular example, the breakeven point on risk was about a month so that after a month, the miner and buyer saw pretty much the same risks if coin value went to zero. Seriously, do the math yourself if you don't believe me.

I've been on bitcointalk.org for ages, and what I say isn't controversial there because a lot of those folks bought coins directly, held onto it, and profited 10-20x more than miners. In fact some people both mined and bought and would tell you the same thing I just did.
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76


I'm not missing the point at all nor am I arguing that mining isn't currently profitable. You guys seem to be missing the point: that mining is a lot riskier than some people claim; in some cases it's actually riskier than buying direct, depending on your circumstances such as how much you pay for power, if you can use waste heat or if it's summertime and you're already broiling, etc. That's my point: that mining is not nearly as riskless as some people make it out to be. In the example above, you could risk $7.5k on mining for a year or you could risk $700 up front. Either road would have led you to the same place, but one of those roads costs more than 10 times as much money and includes mining headaches. Some people do a blend of mining and buying and that might actually net you the best of both worlds. As usual I am excluding people who would have bought mining equipment anyway even if coins were worthless; and also people who are doing it for sh-- and giggles and don't care if it's even costing them money.
 
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taq8ojh

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,296
1
81
DOGE difficulty went above 300, so with my lousy hashrate guess it's time to jump the ship and go back to LTC.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,110
1,260
126
Yeah guys pretty much. I have a good job that pays well. I don't waste my money gambling, not my thing, whether that be at the casino, the stock market or on cryptocoins.

I do have hardware that can mine and it's a fun thing to play with, so I do it some here and there and trade the results for gift cards or Paypal cash. Why not ?

I don't think anyone here has plans to be the next self made billionaire tycoon and most of us just play around with it and realize some mediocre to half decent cash returns. Safe bet the real tycoons of market manipulation are not wasting their time posting here on AT forums.

To the moon!
 

wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
0
0
Roughly 450kh/s, probably a little bit less than that. With this difficulty I can hardly make 10k DOGE a day. That's pointless.

Perhaps, it depends if you cash out immediately or wait and see longer term. It will probably never get easier then now if it goes up long term, however if it does crash and fade then it would pay to jump ship as soon as it's not profitable.
 

taq8ojh

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,296
1
81
I am probably just going to switch back to mining LTC, but will hold onto the DOGE I have. But knowing my crappy luck with everything, I am not sure whether it wouldn't be better to trade them into BTC right now. It's only like 120k though.
 

pandemonium

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2011
1,777
76
91
You cannot be serious and recommend the average joe to invest real $$, their hard earned savings, into buying crypto coins as an investment. The crypto market shed nearly half its value, or over 5B in recent times. A lot of people lost a LOT of money with the recent market trauma.

You call me optimistic when I say an R290 pays for itself in a few weeks. That's not optimism, thats history, its repeated here over and over. For someone who isn't keen sensed on markets, mining is infinitely safer with lower rewards.

Why not? I've recommend it plenty to friends, family, co-workers. They've seen my profits and how easy it is to get into and do. As opposed to mining, where you have to have at least a little bit of savvy and willingness to diagnose issues for tweaking your setups. As we're seeing with DOGe, the reward can be substantial, but it's more of a demanding investment of time, money, and personal interest to mine. The average Joe wouldn't do such and be more inclined to just buy and hold.

The people I've spoken to that have never heard of digital currencies also understand that this market is about to start walking on its own (infancy ended around April of this year), and buying now yields greater returns in the long run. Obviously I'm not saying go into debt buying into this; I only endorse using expendable income.

Everytime someone loses money, someone is gaining it. If there's anything to take away from the advent of cryptocurrencies, it's to be patient and have faith. It has its ups and downs, but in the end, you'll be ahead of where you were when you bought in; either as a miner or as a direct investor.

The point (again) is: it's less of an investment on an individual to directly invest, than it is to invest in mining.

For people jumping in the game now, I definitely wouldn't recommend mining.
 

KlokWyze

Diamond Member
Sep 7, 2006
4,451
9
81
www.dogsonacid.com
Yeah guys pretty much. I have a good job that pays well. I don't waste my money gambling, not my thing, whether that be at the casino, the stock market or on cryptocoins.

I do have hardware that can mine and it's a fun thing to play with, so I do it some here and there and trade the results for gift cards or Paypal cash. Why not ?

I don't think anyone here has plans to be the next self made billionaire tycoon and most of us just play around with it and realize some mediocre to half decent cash returns. Safe bet the real tycoons of market manipulation are not wasting their time posting here on AT forums.

To the moon!

Definitely this. I've made a bit of cash and it's fun playing around with this stuff (sometimes).

Investing and letting it sit is smart, but day trading not so much. You have to be glued to 10 different exchanges constantly monitoring and be GOOD at it. Meanwhile, bots are really controlling 70% of it. The rest are just panic buyers/sellers, which is where you will make your money.

The real reason that mining is awesome is because you are generating revenue over time. No need to monitor. It just sits there and makes you money, w/ high up front costs. Different than going to work, taking your pay and buying into something that's purely dependent on growth in a volatile market.

Whatevers. Good times!

Edit:

Also, can't mine doge on any pools now. Just mining LTC until I setup multiple doge pools. Who knows when that will be. These sites are completely useless. Jesus....
 
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hitmanx2

Senior member
Aug 27, 2004
685
0
0
trust me it takes insane amounts of time... I'm thinking about just setting up a pool server out there just to setup with various coins as they come through. Being the first operational pool on a single hot coin like DOGE can be a massive money maker. I'm over 7Mhash so I can jump onto a new coin and fly. If I choose a decent hosting provider then I'll be able to scale pretty well as needed. I've been using a local box as my coin server but I'm basically doing the work already so why not allow some other people to connect?

Yea, that is also something that I am thinking of, since there are some pretty good open source mining pool code such as TheSerapher/mpos https://github.com/TheSerapher/php-mpos out there (It uses memcache, supports stratum and vardiff, well you probably know about it already). I think it is not a bad idea to spend a weekend on it with a EC2 micro instance as a test bed. If you are looking for cheap good host, I personally like OVH KS Series server http://www.ovh.com/us/dedicated-servers/, really good pricing on dedicated servers IMO and won't nickel and dime you on the bandwidth and requests like Amazon EC2.
 
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