Cryptocoin Mining?

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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Oh balls. I thought LTC was different in this regard, assuming by the name: LITEcoin. Is it basically a bitcoin ripoff with some minor aspects slightly changed then?

Bitcoin will never be widespread enough (as in between "normal" people) simply because of this. It's somewhat popular, but you still can't use it. you can make money off it, but it doesn't really serve the purpose of currency in the slightest. Sadly. And I don't think it ever will.

The short answer is yes, there are quibbles but basically Litecoin confirmations are 4 times faster and uses Scrypt instead of SHA256 but it shares the same fundamental strengths and weaknesses as Bitcoin.

However, Bitcoin is not set in stone, so if there is enough demand for it, the software can be modified, for instance, to do checkpointing or pruning to get blockchain sizes smaller. But so far nothing has been done and blockchain size is already over 10GB.
 

wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
0
0
Your dismissive "that is all" means you have nothing to refute what I wrote, imho. I said "about 2" which could mean 1, 2, 3, or maaaybe 4, but let's be real here, it probably means 1-3 (often 1-2) because cryptocurrency is in tech, and tech tends to consolidate around 1-3 (often 1-2) major networks. Economists have known about the network effect for ages, so have computer scientists. If you want to educate yourself, you can start by simple google search. But any self-respecting tech enthusiast already knows this.
<snip/>

Don't worry I agree you have a point and I don't necessarily even disagree in the end. I just read it as there is only room for 2 which I don't know whether it's true or not, it just came across as being a fact which it's not (perhaps due to misreading your "about 2", also a year or more ago bitcoin was probably the "only" choice). I enjoy your opinion but you don't need to start lecturing about "googling" and "any self-respecting tech enthusiast already knows this" with a condescending tone. If these are indeed like the tulip mania, most predictions will turn out false anyway.

I do believe that bitcoin will likely be the dominant force in cryptocurrencies for the near future. There are a ton of currencies in the world and while some may be used for trade (e.g. USD) the value still fluctuates dramatically (almost halved in value from ~2000 -> 2008) so it doesn't even matter whether it's "dominate".

You compare it to the tech world, but it's closer to the currency world which you also mentioned.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Don't worry I agree you have a point and I don't necessarily even disagree in the end. I just read it as there is only room for 2 which I don't know whether it's true or not, it just came across as being a fact which it's not (perhaps due to misreading your "about 2", also a year or more ago bitcoin was probably the "only" choice). I enjoy your opinion but you don't need to start lecturing about "googling" and "any self-respecting tech enthusiast already knows this" with a condescending tone. If these are indeed like the tulip mania, most predictions will turn out false anyway.

I do believe that bitcoin will likely be the dominant force in cryptocurrencies for the near future. There are a ton of currencies in the world and while some may be used for trade (e.g. USD) the value still fluctuates dramatically (almost halved in value from ~2000 -> 2008) so it doesn't even matter whether it's "dominate".

You compare it to the tech world, but it's closer to the currency world which you also mentioned.

Ah, I see you misread "about 2" as "exactly 2." Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. I hedged because you can have 3+ competing standards even in tech, though usually not for that long. And I was deliberately condescending because I thought you were deliberately interpreting what I wrote as "exactly 2" even though that is not what I wrote.

I don't think bitcoin is closer to the currency world. Currency is special due to political and economic reasons; every country likes to retain the right to tax people stealthily via seigniorage (the proverbial "printing money") if necessary. Every country I know of mandates that taxes be paid in a specified currency upon pain of jail or worse. Bitcoin is not backed by the threat of force--bitcoin's value is entirely derived from network effects. Further, bitcoin is not a store of value due to its extreme volatility. For that and other reasons, bitcoin is more like a commodity than a currency.

Saying they may all turn out to be tulip mania and go to zero kinda goes without saying when you have an e-commodity backed by nothing more than network effects, but I was just responding to someone else asking about Scrypt ASICs.
 
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wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
0
0
Saying they may all turn out to be tulip mania and go to zero kinda goes without saying when you have an e-commodity backed by nothing more than network effects, but I was just responding to someone else asking about Scrypt ASICs.

Yeah most avid readers are probably aware of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania but for those who aren't it's worth reading about just to be aware the the new virtual gold rush is simply a trend that has been repeated for generations and centuries. I believe this book is now free as an ebook under that 100 year copyright law in that one site (what was it) where you can get free ebooks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds Is a great read as well and you'll see that man has been err duped repeatedly.

I'm not saying the trend will come crashing down, just that it can and could at anytime, and it's good to be aware of if you go "investing" your life's savings.

Here's an ebook, I'm not sure if this is the same as the actual paper version.

Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Mackay
The major events: The Mississippi scheme -- The south-sea bubble -- The tulipomania -- The alchymists -- Modern prophecies -- Fortune-telling -- The magnetisers -- Influence of politics and religion on the hair and beard -- The crusades -- The witch mania -- The slow poisoners -- Haunted houses -- Popular follies of great cities -- Popular admiration of great thieves -- Duels and ordeals -- Relics.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/24518
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
True but let's not forget that manias can last for quite a long time. For instance, some of the older baseball cards--the ones that are actually rare and not the super-mass-produced ones that came later--are still worth lots of money despite having little intrinsic value. The rarest misprints are worth the most. Why? Because they are rare. No real other reason. The only thing predictable about bitcoin is that it is unpredictable.
 

Freaksterz

Member
Sep 25, 2013
56
0
0
How does that mean that doge is dead, more like the other way. More like no interest in cat so ratio fell off.
Doge's value was pumped for 2days till all multipools switched back to it again.
Nothing will change till the 100k block.
E: Difficulty is almost 500 .. Damn atleast the multi pools will be off it now till re-adjustment.
 
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broken_pixel

Member
Oct 26, 2013
59
0
0
Oh balls. I thought LTC was different in this regard, assuming by the name: LITEcoin. Is it basically a bitcoin ripoff with some minor aspects slightly changed then?

Bitcoin will never be widespread enough (as in between "normal" people) simply because of this. It's somewhat popular, but you still can't use it. you can make money off it, but it doesn't really serve the purpose of currency in the slightest. Sadly. And I don't think it ever will.

Wow! @ this ^
Time to research past fox news.

Overstock.com has a payment option for BTC. Newegg is talking about adding BTC as an option and other mainstream internet online retailers.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
A terrible, corrupt, power and money thieving monetary system in the US (and other countries) is BTC and it's offshoots greatest champion.

As long as USGov and by extension the Fed keep pillaging the nations workforce and the nations dollars then BTC has a good to very bright future. Fortunately we are talking about one of the most corrupt monetary systems in the world so BTC's future is blindingly bright.

BTC also implicitly applies leverage to the discussion about just how corrupt the US monetary system is. "BTC, well why is it even needed?&#8230;." This leads to the natural conclusion and evaluation of/about the US monetary system. Anyone with half a wit will quickly see what's going on if they start off down this path. The main issue staving off change in the US monetary system has been how concealed the corruption has been able to remain, so the path to enlightenment there has been obscured and concealed with the intent of keep the charade going. BTC, amongst other things, sheds some light on the path towards thinking about and understanding how corrupt the US monetary system is and how it disenfranchises (thieves from to cut to the chase) the many to serve the few.
 
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holden j caufield

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 1999
6,324
10
81
hey guys what if I have two 7970 both hash around 720 khash, but one has significantly more shares accepted. Almost 10% more, and the pool actually consistently says it's mining at 800 khash. So khash has little meaning and accepted shares is actually what should be measured?
 

bob32768

Member
Feb 7, 2013
41
0
76
Middlecoin's balance tracker absolutely flatlined over the past 8 hours or so, but now it seems (unexchanged, at least) to have shot up again. Maybe it's the exchanges?
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
hey guys what if I have two 7970 both hash around 720 khash, but one has significantly more shares accepted. Almost 10% more, and the pool actually consistently says it's mining at 800 khash. So khash has little meaning and accepted shares is actually what should be measured?

Yep, that's my understanding. You want the highest rate of accepted shares, or WU as cgminer shows. (WU should ideally be near .92 of Kh/s rate, but around .9 is fine). Keep in mind this stat is highly susceptible to luck in the short term, so to gauge it properly i'd let cgminer run for 24hrs and then evaluate rate of accepted shares.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
A terrible, corrupt, power and money thieving monetary system in the US (and other countries) is BTC and it's offshoots greatest champion.

As long as USGov and by extension the Fed keep pillaging the nations workforce and the nations dollars then BTC has a good to very bright future. Fortunately we are talking about one of the most corrupt monetary systems in the world so BTC's future is blindingly bright.

BTC also implicitly applies leverage to the discussion about just how corrupt the US monetary system is. "BTC, well why is it even needed?…." This leads to the natural conclusion and evaluation of/about the US monetary system. Anyone with half a wit will quickly see what's going on if they start off down this path. The main issue staving off change in the US monetary system has been how concealed the corruption has been able to remain, so the path to enlightenment there has been obscured and concealed with the intent of keep the charade going. BTC, amongst other things, sheds some light on the path towards thinking about and understanding how corrupt the US monetary system is and how it disenfranchises (thieves from to cut to the chase) the many to serve the few.
Most of the earned interest the Fed generates is rebated back into the Treasury while a small percentage is kept to maintain operating costs.

The best thing about Bitcoin is that in the long run, there can be no Zimbabwe or Weimar Germany-like inflation once all of the coins are mined, although as long as there are coins to be generated, there will be inflation.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
Most of the earned interest the Fed generates is rebated back into the Treasury while a small percentage is kept to maintain operating costs.

The best thing about Bitcoin is that in the long run, there can be no Zimbabwe or Weimar Germany-like inflation once all of the coins are mined, although as long as there are coins to be generated, there will be inflation.

Yea, through the remittance clause those earnings (from printed money) on treasury bonds and other debt assets go to treasury. Good and bad thing, but ultimately I view it as USGov printing money to pay bills with the Fed in there to play three card monty on the peoples perception of whats going on. Treasury gets zero interest loans (thanks to QE money printing) that they can roll over ad infinitum thanks to the fraud the Fed perpetuates in our monetary system. The outcome seems to be secondary to the rationalization of what the Fed's goal is, but the outcome as it relates to the governments obligation to current debt is the most important to me. The allure/benefit of zero interest loans is of course to borrow more, this leads to more/swifter destruction of the dollars purchasing power while at the same time allowing for national debt build up to be marginalized through that destruction of the dollar and lower effective interest rate on the debt (good for spenders and receivers of US debt, bad for folks working hard for dollars that are destroyed and taxed to keep the ponzi going).

Bitcoin should also give monetary power (in the bitcoin currency) back to people and remove the corruption of influence from those already endowed with great wealth or influence. We'll see how it plays out, i expect there to be more growing pains along the way.

Overstocks debut of accepting bitcoin was big. Large one day revenue and the kicker was,&#8230; From nearly all new customers. I'm sure more than a few etailers took note of the last part.
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
Yea, through the remittance clause those earnings (from printed money) on treasury bonds and other debt assets go to treasury. Good and bad thing, but ultimately I view it as USGov printing money to pay bills with the Fed in there to play three card monty on the peoples perception of whats going on. Treasury gets zero interest loans (thanks to QE money printing) that they can roll over ad infinitum thanks to the fraud the Fed perpetuates in our monetary system. The outcome seems to be secondary to the rationalization of what the Fed's goal is, but the outcome as it relates to the governments obligation to current debt is the most important to me. The allure/benefit of zero interest loans is of course to borrow more, this leads to more/swifter destruction of the dollars purchasing power while at the same time allowing for national debt build up to be marginalized through that destruction of the dollar and lower effective interest rate on the debt (good for spenders and receivers of US debt, bad for folks working hard for dollars that are destroyed and taxed to keep the ponzi going).

Bitcoin should also give monetary power (in the bitcoin currency) back to people and remove the corruption of influence from those already endowed with great wealth or influence. We'll see how it plays out, i expect there to be more growing pains along the way.

Overstocks debut of accepting bitcoin was big. Large one day revenue and the kicker was,… From nearly all new customers. I'm sure more than a few etailers took note of the last part.
The Fed buying and selling government bonds, of which they only hold about 12%, is to change the size of the money supply. Money "within the boundaries" of the Fed is not currency in circulation and not part of the money supply. When Treasury bonds are bought by the Fed, money flows into circulation and the money supply expands a little, which then increases the inflation rate. When the bond matures or is sold, the Treasury returns the principal and interest back into the "boundaries of the Fed", and the money is no longer in circulation. The Treasury would ultimately lose money, but since the interest is mostly paid back by the Fed, the only loss is minimal, relatively speaking. If the Fed actually totally "pockets" the interest instead of paying it back, the money supply would actually decrease by the amount of that interest, as money within the Fed is not money usable by outsiders, even the government.
Not only that, but the Treasury cannot tell the Fed to continue buying bonds ad infinitum if the Fed says no.

Also, there are indicators as to whether are government is printing money far too quickly. It is called the inflation rate, the data is out there, and the inflation rate is certainly NOT near the catastrophic levels rhetoric implies it would be. Under 5% is very, very tame to the regimes that have actually printed money like maniacs to pay off their bills, with Zimbabwe being one example.

As for QE, this is the Fed buying up private sector securities in banks to expand the money supply as US dollars flow out of the boundaries of the Fed and into circulation. This is supposed to encourage lending, which allows many entrepreneurs to try to do business.

The rhetoric makes it sound as if our system somehow worse than those in which the governmental authority(-ies) has sufficient control over their money printers. The Fed is still "independent". I have yet to see the U.S in Zimbabwe mode, printing and printing to the point that the currency is no longer even used.

What Bitcoin's main benefit is that when all the coins are mined, which is not now, it will be hyperinflation-proof, which even gold is not immune to. It is also, theoretically, deflation-proof, thus leaving those who need to take out loans to conduct business and pay them off later. But since there will be small losses of Bitcoins, there will be a small amount of deflation. But this is when all the coins are mined.

In its current state, the money supply of Bitcoin and other altcoins is increasing, and hence the inflation rate of these currencies is also positive. Hence, the "purchasing power" of Bitcoin is also eroding with every new coins made, but unlike fiat, there will be a limit. But right now, Bitcoin is no different from fiat.

But ideals are not what garners interest in Bitcoin now. It's the ability to profit through printing it, and the more one can obtain via printing and currency speculation, the more profit. Every miner becomes their own "mini central bank" and some also try to retrace the steps of George Soros in trying to make their fortune.
 

taq8ojh

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,296
1
81
Wow! @ this ^
Time to research past fox news.

Overstock.com has a payment option for BTC. Newegg is talking about adding BTC as an option and other mainstream internet online retailers.
What's fox news?

So you named ONE online store. Unknown amount of others is THINKING about the option. That's great. So WHERE can I actually pay with bitcoins? Make a guess. Nowhere.

When I say widespread, I mean such widespread you can pay directly with bitcoins in at least a few online stores in most first world countries.
That ain't gonna happen.
 
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