Cryptocoin Mining?

[notty22]

It's been between $14 and $15 on tradehill since mtgox has been down.

It is and its not. Tradehill is also down , have been down. So no one is really buying or selling. And a large part of coins/transactions are frozen/suspended whatever you want to name it. I watched the live interview with the 2 MTGox owners, they have 60,000 accounts to verify ! I just checked, they posted they are at 10%. Hopefully they are hooked up with some good security people to avoid a grand re-opening follow up hack.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jun/22/lulzsec-rogue-suspected-of-bitcoin-hack

 

[OS]

Well i dont know if this will last longer than Greece but i have my doubt.

Some basic difference from this bit -not- coin to a more normal currency:

The FED have some gold to back up the paper money. Not a huge amount, but probably relativesly more than what is invested here as indicated by the withdrawal limitations. Secondly - it might seem like a minor issue for the americans - the currency is backed by production that have a value that could be exchanged - bartered, - without whatever symbol used.

I know its boring details, 5970 talk is better.

Have fun

The USD is NOT backed by gold.
Go to any bank, the fed, the US treasury, ask them for gold in exchange for USD and they will show you the door.

the USD is a 100% fiat currency backed only by the US treasury debt on the Fed balance sheet, which is in a way it's own pyramid scheme.

However what gives the USD its value is LEGAL TENDER LAWS, that the USD must be accepted to extinguish debt and taxes.

So the USD is just another paper currency, but a government enforced one.

 

[Cuhulainn]

The USD is NOT backed by gold.
Go to any bank, the fed, the US treasury, ask them for gold in exchange for USD and they will show you the door.

Right, and this has been true since 1971.

Good answer, all the way around.

So the big difference is that there is no law that says anyone has to accept BTC to extinguish debt or taxes owed.

 

[Aikouka]

It is and its not. Tradehill is also down , have been down. So no one is really buying or selling. And a large part of coins/transactions are frozen/suspended whatever you want to name it. I watched the live interview with the 2 MTGox owners, they have 60,000 accounts to verify ! I just checked, they posted they are at 10%. Hopefully they are hooked up with some good security people to avoid a grand re-opening follow up hack.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jun/22/lulzsec-rogue-suspected-of-bitcoin-hack

I read that MtGox did not get hacked. Supposedly, an auditor that had read access to their database got hacked and that's how they got the users database. I forget where I read it or else I'd include the URL.

 

[Zargon]

I read that MtGox did not get hacked. Supposedly, an auditor that had read access to their database got hacked and that's how they got the users database. I forget where I read it or else I'd include the URL.

yeah I read that too

 

[notty22]

I included that link from the guardian, in part because it mentioned this story as well, and a different 'story' on what happened.
EFF Drops Bitcoin Over Concerns About Legality


Its the owners of mtgox themselves that have said 'technically' they weren't hacked. But there is obviously concerns, and that is why things aren't operating normally currently.
One of the biggest issues is the auto-buying /selling that was in place, when the bitcoin value was manipulated. There are some claiming they bought thousands of bitcoins as the price was dropping (as low as pennies), who feel victimized also.
So you can understand those traders anger about claims, 'well we weren't technically hacked'. Well WTH happened then?

 

[YoungGun21]

Regardless of the exchange being 'hacked' or not, it was compromised. Therefore, the trades need to be rolled back.

 

[Cuhulainn]

So you can understand those traders anger about claims, 'well we weren't technically hacked'. Well WTH happened then?

You are only as strong as your weakest link. Regardless of how secure Mt Gox is, if an auditor or anyone else who has access to their data was compromised, they were compromised too. They aren't exactly making a very strong point here.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

Well i'm happy with this bitcoin thing. Ive made 0.7 Bitcoins in a little more than two days while I'm at work not using my computer or sleeping. With no money in it other than just my gaming computer. I should have 1 BTC by the time I wake up tomorrow and have like $15 for not doing much work.

That pays for gas for two days going to work easy.

 

[Zargon]

You are only as strong as your weakest link. Regardless of how secure Mt Gox is, if an auditor or anyone else who has access to their data was compromised, they were compromised too. They aren't exactly making a very strong point here.

sure they are, because they apparantly arent veyr vulnerable to SQL Injection or brute forcing, they had to go after some auditor.

its not great still, but its not OMFG bad

 

[ViviTheMage]

It is not how detailed they are on what happened/how...not detailed, but nice of em to mention what happened exactly, how they got in.

 

[krumme]

But what backs up the gold?

Gold have value, because it have Limited supply, and have been used for bragging at all times. And then notice, even the american are producing something of value - it can be bartered - without gold, paper whatever. I give you a pig, you give me a goat - the symbol just makes the transaction much easier.

So there is real value behind the symbol be it gold or big stones with a hole in*

But when does it have value to burn electricity?

Let me give you this question. If i burn electricity, - fx. making bit coins or watching porn, will you then give me money?

* Stone with holes have been used as a currency - the most wealthy had a big one at the buttom of the ocean, but he could trade with it all time - as you might have guessed its not the most effective symbol. Sometimes its much more easy just to carry the goat, instead of the stones.

 

[krumme]

The USD is NOT backed by gold.
Go to any bank, the fed, the US treasury, ask them for gold in exchange for USD and they will show you the door.

the USD is a 100% fiat currency backed only by the US treasury debt on the Fed balance sheet, which is in a way it's own pyramid scheme.

However what gives the USD its value is LEGAL TENDER LAWS, that the USD must be accepted to extinguish debt and taxes.

So the USD is just another paper currency, but a government enforced one.

1. Every national bank in this world have gold

2. Every currency is backed by production of value. You tend to disregard the simple fact. Bit coins adds nothing. Absolutely nothing. Its just a pain for the environment and our children. Its very, very poluting entertainment.

 

[alaricljs]

1. Every national bank in this world have gold

2. Every currency is backed by production of value. You tend to disregard the simple fact. Bit coins adds nothing. Absolutely nothing. Its just a pain for the environment and our children. Its very, very poluting entertainment.

Point 1) You have proof of that claim? Banks do not stock gold, perhaps it is in their possession inside safety deposit boxes, but the bank itself does not have possession of gold.

Point 2) This is how most currencies in the world started out, but take a look at Greece's financial situation. After that figure out how far into debt the US is and how there's any other value to the USD other than HOPE.

 

[OS]

1. Every national bank in this world have gold

2. Every currency is backed by production of value. You tend to disregard the simple fact. Bit coins adds nothing. Absolutely nothing. Its just a pain for the environment and our children. Its very, very poluting entertainment.

i don't even know where to begin with how stupid this is.

That a nation happens to have sovereign holdings of gold does NOT mean the economy nor the currency is backed by gold.
japan has something like a tenth of the US in gold reserves but their GDP is a third of the US.
Gold holdings has little significance to current economics.

currencies are NOT backed by any production, any business can refuse service to any customer regardless of money.

 

[Voo]

Wait are we really arguing that modern currencies are backed by gold? Did I land in some kind of parallel world where bretton woods didn't happen?

Every modern currency is a fiat currency - the simple fact that national banks have gold reserves has nothing to do with that. Gold is simply a quite stable currency (not the least based on the fact that national banks have treaties about selling gold to assure not to devalue it) that reduces risks with fluctuation compared to the USD and reduces dependencies. And since both those things aren't that important anymore for many countries here's one reason why gold is getting less and less important for currency hedging (also you can sell gold quite nicely to reduce national debt I hear )

 

[dx11101]

We went off the gold standard because we needed an elastic money supply. Gold is too scarce. If you took the total worldwide above ground gold supply and divided it by the population you would have less than one ounce per person.

Which brings us to fiat money. However, without discipline in government and in the growth of the money supply the value historically tends to fall against tangible goods(gold, food, gas). I have looked into bitcoin and it is a very interesting concept where the money supply growth is self-regulating. Which means "in theory", if I save a bitcoin, no bureaucrat can print 10 trillion of them and build war machines to drop on my neighbor. Of course when I later go to spend that money it has been devalued and I have been screwed.

I have seen people attack bitcoin as it cannot possibly be a "currency" because its not backed. Currency has been many things(seashells, pretty rocks, copper, gold, silver, pelts, cattle, paper notes). Taking this into the "big picture" I see a tech 0 civilization going through the growing pains of evolving into a tech 1 over the next decades.

If you wondered what a tech 1 currency looked like I can tell you its not the United States dollar. And i still dont own any bitcoins, yet. I just am letting to concept grow on me still.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

We went off the gold standard because we needed an elastic money supply. Gold is too scarce. If you took the total worldwide above ground gold supply and divided it by the population you would have less than one ounce per person.

Which brings us to fiat money. However, without discipline in government and in the growth of the money supply the value historically tends to fall against tangible goods(gold, food, gas). I have looked into bitcoin and it is a very interesting concept where the money supply growth is self-regulating. Which means "in theory", if I save a bitcoin, no bureaucrat can print 10 trillion of them and build war machines to drop on my neighbor. Of course when I later go to spend that money it has been devalued and I have been screwed.

I have seen people attack bitcoin as it cannot possibly be a "currency" because its not backed. Currency has been many things(seashells, pretty rocks, copper, gold, silver, pelts, cattle, paper notes). Taking this into the "big picture" I see a tech 0 civilization going through the growing pains of evolving into a tech 1 over the next decades.

If you wondered what a tech 1 currency looked like I can tell you its not the United States dollar. And i still dont own any bitcoins, yet. I just am letting to concept grow on me still.

What does tech 1 currency mean? You talking about some sort of universal currency?

 

[dx11101]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale sorry i meant to put type 0 and type 1....

 

[OVerLoRDI]

If prior trends continue, the increase of difficulty should be met with an increase in price per bitcoin though, shouldn't it? The people providing the supply of computing power to mine bitcoins should decrease in number as suppliers are no longer willing to supply if the price of a bitcoin does not go up when difficulty goes up.

False. If anything, difficulty follows price. As price increases more people begin mining, difficulty then catches up over the next few adjustments. If the price dropped significantly we would likely see difficulty decrease as people begin to stop mining and stop investing in hardware. It is all about incentives.

 

[gorobei]

i guess we've reached the outsourcing stage:
http://stockton.craigslist.org/bar/2443006233.html

i guess you could run his client at a lower aggression and split the hashes.

 

[Jen]

i guess we've reached the outsourcing stage:
http://stockton.craigslist.org/bar/2443006233.html

i guess you could run his client at a lower aggression and split the hashes.

seeing this more often , the use of other peoples electricity as its cheaper than thiers

also seen people creating thier own software then having you use it , then they pay you a small percentage while they make the most out of it. yes people dont realize its bitcoin and just do it for pennys without knowing

Jen

 

[Spike]

Well, finally got me a whole bitcoin after ~40 hours. Not sure what to do with it but hey, I have one now! I might be adding a third computer (5770) to the mix to see what that does to my overall power. I did underclock my 5870 and 6970 to reduce heat. Both are now running the auto fan between 30-45% and keeping temps in the high 80s, much better than running at 70-100% fan and being in the low 90s. Too bad my home office is like a sauna now...

 

[Jen]

Well, finally got me a whole bitcoin after ~40 hours. Not sure what to do with it but hey, I have one now! I might be adding a third computer (5770) to the mix to see what that does to my overall power. I did underclock my 5870 and 6970 to reduce heat. Both are now running the auto fan between 30-45% and keeping temps in the high 80s, much better than running at 70-100% fan and being in the low 90s. Too bad my home office is like a sauna now...

first one i built had in spare room , all night i was hearing this loudness of fans. the heat was huge. fans on everywhere and yet i couldnt get them cooler than 90c . thats when i thought of the basement , now i have some what sanity and dont have to listen to them

Jen

 

[gorobei]

i'm hoping there are still some 5830's in the newegg pipeline left to be released. i have an ip35e board sitting idle and the pcie 16 and 1 slots are perfect for a 2 card setup. that way i can give my main rig a rest from the heat.

i wouldnt think it would be worth it to run a pair of 1 card rigs electricity-wise. 2 cpu, 2 psu, 2 cards, 2 sets of ram. probably better to run 2 cards in 1 machine.