Cryptocoin Mining?

[IEC]

Why is it dead? Heat isn't a problem for me since my basement is just as cold year round. In fact, it's colder in the summer than the winter..


So you mean it took 3 days to make 0.01BTC? I just checked my history and there aren't many payouts because I hold DOGE.. But took at least 5 days for me to payout 0.01 BTC.

You just answered your own question. Unless your power is cheaper than 10c/kWh you're making <$1/day after power costs. For people with > 25c/kWh power costs you would actually be losing money after power costs in many cases.

The final psychological blow for a lot of people is the widespread adoption of Gridseed ASICs and the newly announced KnC ASIC (100 MH/s).

I'm pretty sure a lot of the LTC hash right now is based in China and comes from Gridseed-based units which can be built and purchased much more cheaply within China than elsewhere.

 

[taltamir]

So you mean it took 3 days to make 0.01BTC? I just checked my history and there aren't many payouts because I hold DOGE.. But took at least 5 days for me to payout 0.01 BTC.

DOGE is a big part portion of the profit so holding it why it took you 2 more days than me

yes. scrypt has taking a hard value beating, most likely due to a combination of a ton of new miners (remember when you could get 8$/day on 650kh/s ? That justifies a lot of hardware investment EDIT: And apparently some ASICs came out) combined with plummeting BTC values
mining doge and then trading it would give me 20% more in theory, but requires a lot more micro management and I would need to recalculate daily to see when to move off of doge. As far as multipools go though, it is one of the better ones, if you take the time to do daily manual pool selection yourself you will get better results than a multipool. It sounds counter intuitive, the multipool can recalculate every minute... well the problem with that is that this is countermanded by high fees, likely skimming off the top (there is no way hashcows was making 80% less than mining doge yourself during the boom days without stealing from users) and falling for scams.

For example scryptguild had me mine some worthless scam coins it cannot sell which are worth nothing (0.0003 BTC total combined worth, too low to trade) during those specific days listed
Now they are saying: NOBL, MOON, FRY, and KDC are being removed on 4/1/14. You have until then to withdraw your balance.
honestly, I am not going to bother, they can keep my 400 NOBL, thank you very much; I aint bothering to withdraw that junk

 

[geokilla]

You just answered your own question. Unless your power is cheaper than 10c/kWh you're making <$1/day after power costs. For people with > 25c/kWh power costs you would actually be losing money after power costs in many cases.

The final psychological blow for a lot of people is the widespread adoption of Gridseed ASICs and the newly announced KnC ASIC (100 MH/s).

I'm pretty sure a lot of the LTC hash right now is based in China and comes from Gridseed-based units which can be built and purchased much more cheaply within China than elsewhere.

Does your power cost include power delivery charge? Because if not.. Heh I'm probably making a loss too. But at least I'm getting some return whereas with Folding@Home I was getting no return. Not sure if Folding@Home got anything done lately either. Some people say it did, some say it didn't.

ASICs have been around since forever if you ask me. Reason I say that is because it's highly impossible one user got like 50K KH/s... On one pool. Then you have these different coins, different pools, etc. and that's quite a lot of AMD GPUs bought solely for mining, which seems unlikely. Plus, I didn't even know the public were using it. Thought we had to wait until Q3 or Q4 for them to ship.

 

[geokilla]

DOGE is a big part portion of the profit so holding it why it took you 2 more days than me

yes. scrypt has taking a hard value beating, most likely due to a combination of a ton of new miners (remember when you could get 8$/day on 650kh/s ? That justifies a lot of hardware investment EDIT: And apparently some ASICs came out) combined with plummeting BTC values
mining doge and then trading it would give me 20% more in theory, but requires a lot more micro management and I would need to recalculate daily to see when to move off of doge. As far as multipools go though, it is one of the better ones, if you take the time to do daily manual pool selection yourself you will get better results than a multipool. It sounds counter intuitive, the multipool can recalculate every minute... well the problem with that is that this is countermanded by high fees, likely skimming off the top (there is no way hashcows was making 80% less than mining doge yourself during the boom days without stealing from users) and falling for scams.

Ya I don't know why I'm still holding DOGE. Price has plummeted so much. I'm probably better off trading them at this rate... I regret not selling when it went up to 150 satoshi a few days ago.

FWIW, the pool may not have been stealing but it just wasn't running effectively. I've been part of a pool where it had a higher pool hashrate but it wasn't finding nearly as many blocks as the other pool with a lower hashrate. It was probably set up incorrectly? Apparently network nodes and how many connections to the network matters.

Edit: Double post by accident..

 

[IEC]

Does your power cost include power delivery charge? Because if not.. Heh I'm probably making a loss too. But at least I'm getting some return whereas with Folding@Home I was getting no return. Not sure if Folding@Home got anything done lately either. Some people say it did, some say it didn't.

ASICs have been around since forever if you ask me. Reason I say that is because it's highly impossible one user got like 50K KH/s... On one pool. Then you have these different coins, different pools, etc. and that's quite a lot of AMD GPUs bought solely for mining, which seems unlikely. Plus, I didn't even know the public were using it. Thought we had to wait until Q3 or Q4 for them to ship.

My .09/kWh includes everything. It's less per kWh until you include all the fees and such.

As for your point about ASICs: Not impossible, as proven by AT's own Virge_ who has > 60 kH in his garage.

 

[geokilla]

My .09/kWh includes everything. It's less per kWh until you include all the fees and such.

Delivery fee is 8.3 cents/kWh for first 1000kWh. Then 9.7 cents/kWH. Combine that with time of use rates and a bunch of other fees...

• 12.9 ¢/kWh Highest Price (On-peak)
• 10.9 ¢/kWh Mid Price (Mid-peak)
• 7.2 ¢/kWh Lowest Price (Off-peak)

Living in Toronto sucks. This city and province is terrible as a whole.

https://www.torontohydro.com/sites/.../yourbilloverview/Pages/ElectricityRates.aspx

 

[Silverforce11]

29 cents per kWh not including service fees, which are around $50 a month. We have it pretty damn bad with all the greens in power for the past 6 years, too many naive greens believing solar and wind is the answer to our problems, without even realizing how ineffective and damaging those technologies are.

 

[frowertr]

Service fees, taxes, base charges, etc... will push the price of your elec up more than you can imagine. Just take the total amount you owe on your power bill and divide by the amount of kWh you consumed for the month to determine what your actual kWh charge is when all the fees are rolled in.

I'm in north Florida. For residential service, we pay .06¢/kWh as the base charge. However, by the time you add in all the above crap, the final price comes out to .16¢/kWh. Commercial is a bit better. It tops out at .13¢/kWh.

 

[hondaf17]

Quick easy question:

If I overclock my 6950, from say 800mhz to 885mhz, without increasing voltage, will my max temps increase?

I OC my card, but never modify voltage (I don't need every last Mhz) so I'm wondering if in theory my max temps at 800 would be the same as at 885.

TYIA,

 

[taltamir]

29 cents per kWh not including service fees, which are around $50 a month. We have it pretty damn bad with all the greens in power for the past 6 years, too many naive greens believing solar and wind is the answer to our problems, without even realizing how ineffective and damaging those technologies are.

>Wind: Lets save the ecosystem by killing all the birds!
>Solar: Lets save the ecosystem by making all those panels that last 20 years and then go in a landfill where they leak hightly toxic heavy metals into the groundwater!
>Both take up massive tracks of land too because they are so inefficient

Yea, the greens are ridiculously naive and easily duped, and everyone is paying the price for that. Both literally on the power bill, and figuratively in the environmental damage

 

[IEC]

Quick easy question:

If I overclock my 6950, from say 800mhz to 885mhz, without increasing voltage, will my max temps increase?

I OC my card, but never modify voltage (I don't need every last Mhz) so I'm wondering if in theory my max temps at 800 would be the same as at 885.

TYIA,

~Wattage = TDP * (OC Core / Stock Core) * (OC Voltage / Stock Voltage)^2

So to answer your question, your thermal load will increase by a factor of (885/800) which is approximately 10.63% more for your cooler to dissipate, leading to increased temperatures.

However, if you were able to undervolt your card by maybe 0.05V you would offset the increased wattage from the clock speed increase. This is only possible with a good chip, though.

 

[bob32768]

I'm going to mine until my next payout with scryptguild and then call it a day. At that point it will almost have been 6 days since the last payout -- twice as long as usual (scryptguild was amazingly consistent for me compared to middle/clever/waffle). Even with my low electricity costs it's not worth it anymore. Good thing I never actually bought any hardware; just used my aged 6950.

I'll convert everything to BTC and then maybe speculate/day trade a bit, but it feels as if altcoins are pretty much dead. Different hashing algorithms don't seem to matter when nearly everyone is in it for pump-and-dump reasons. It's crazy to just clone BTC/LTC, add more/different crypto passes, and expect that to change the landscape in a meaningful way; I'm also not convinced PoS coins are a solution, but at least they're a step in a different direction. I guess LTC/DOGE will keep soldiering on as enough people out there will want to recoup their scrypt hardware, but I wouldn't be surprised if they continue a slow decline in value as miners jump ship.

 

[JDG1980]

ASICs have been around since forever if you ask me. Reason I say that is because it's highly impossible one user got like 50K KH/s... On one pool. Then you have these different coins, different pools, etc. and that's quite a lot of AMD GPUs bought solely for mining, which seems unlikely.

That could easily have been a botnet.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Dat BlackCoin. Hitting 6000 satosi right now. Got back my initial investment of BTC in full, and still have 80% of my initial BC stash left. Good idea is good : reverse mining.

if anyone wants to see what that feels like - http://www.cryptoalts.com

^_^

 

[SwampDog35]

Maybe a stupid question, However is it to late to join the mining adventures? Or am I too late to the show?

 

[KingFatty]

>Wind: Lets save the ecosystem by killing all the birds!
>Solar: Lets save the ecosystem by making all those panels that last 20 years and then go in a landfill where they leak hightly toxic heavy metals into the groundwater!
>Both take up massive tracks of land too because they are so inefficient

Yea, the greens are ridiculously naive and easily duped, and everyone is paying the price for that. Both literally on the power bill, and figuratively in the environmental damage

Is this sarcasm? Or is it really like this in your country? I have never ever heard anyone make a claim that solar and wind energies are bad for the environment, so I assume this is some kind of joke?

But ideally, for your rigs at home, you could use a solar array on your roof to power your mining rigs, and literally pull free BTC right out of thin air (well, pulling them from the sunlight).

 

[wand3r3r]

It depends on how you view the cryptocurrency markets. If you are cashing out as you mine to cover electricity it's getting to the point where higher electric costs are getting close to the profits of selling immediately. All the alt-coins are way down, partially due to BTC's low price.

If you look back there have been many times where mining has barely been worth it if at all.

The hardest thing will be picking the best coin(s) to hold. BTC/LTC are the two best so far, dogecoin looks like a possible 3rd but who knows.

 

[IEC]

Is this sarcasm? Or is it really like this in your country? I have never ever heard anyone make a claim that solar and wind energies are bad for the environment, so I assume this is some kind of joke?

But ideally, for your rigs at home, you could use a solar array on your roof to power your mining rigs, and literally pull free BTC right out of thin air (well, pulling them from the sunlight).

No, he isn't joking. If you do a total cost analysis, both cost more to operate than say, natural gas or oil power plants per kWh. Not to mention the inconsistency associated with wind and solar power generation due to lack of wind and lack of sunlight for at least part of each day.

Cost aside, they also have detrimental environmental effects. Solar power requires a huge investment in energy in order to produce photovoltaic arrays, and generates tons of toxic byproducts in the process (not counting the disposal at end-of-life). In addition to requiring huge investment in energy to produce turbine components, wind turbines kill lots of birds and generate noise pollution, making property values in the vicinity decrease.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Putting a PV array on top of your roof is one of the most expensive ways to generate power and will cost you more per kWh over time than just buying straight electricity from your local utility. Unless you're paying a ridiculous amount per kWh.

 

[Mushkins]

No, he isn't joking. If you do a total cost analysis, both cost more to operate than say, natural gas or oil power plants per kWh. Not to mention the inconsistency associated with wind and solar power generation due to lack of wind and lack of sunlight for at least part of each day.

Cost aside, they also have detrimental environmental effects. Solar power requires a huge investment in energy in order to produce photovoltaic arrays, and generates tons of toxic byproducts in the process (not counting the disposal at end-of-life). In addition to requiring huge investment in energy to produce turbine components, wind turbines kill lots of birds and generate noise pollution, making property values in the vicinity decrease.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Putting a PV array on top of your roof is one of the most expensive ways to generate power and will cost you more per kWh over time than just buying straight electricity from your local utility. Unless you're paying a ridiculous amount per kWh.

Paying the mark-up on a hybrid car is also going to cost you more than you'll save in fuel efficiency over the life of the car. I don't see anyone claiming that alternative, renewable energies are *cheaper* to generate. Nor do I see anyone claiming that there are no negative environmental effects to the production of consumer electricity with any of these technologies.

The actual question here is when you remove all the political bias and sensationalism from the topic and compare apples to apples. Are those wind turbines killing more birds than pollution of burning cheap fossil fuels (assuming those dead birds are an impactful issue to begin with)? Are the toxins from manufacturing and disposing of those solar cells more detrimental than the toxins/runoff from burning cheap fossil fuels? We as consumers unfortunately do not have access to all the prevalent research to even begin to quantify these questions.

Thats what's going to determine the most "green" solution, consumer cost has nothing at all to do with it. The environment couldn't care less if your power costs an extra 10 cents per kwh.

Anyway, back on topic. Frankly, i'm surprised even more people haven't jumped ship on cryptocurrencies after the latest Mt Gox fiasco. "Hey guys, we just happen to find millions of dollars in bitcoins in an old wallet, fancy that!" Hollywood couldn't make this stuff up, how does anyone still have faith in these things having any sort of value after the dog and pony show detailing just how easy it has been to fudge the system this whole time?

 

[KingFatty]

We as consumers unfortunately do not have access to all the prevalent research to even begin to quantify these questions.

Surely there has to be some study that gives a high-level overview of costs and benefits for various different kinds of energy?

Personally, I'd love to have a car-sized thorium nuclear reactor in my basement to generate electricity for myself and a few houses on my block, so they could pay me directly for providing them electricity. Could hook up a lot of mining rigs to that sucker.

I'm about to purchase a 7950 on ebay. I saw a nice card go for right around $200. So that now seems like the new price target for 7950s? Things are getting back to normal? People who pay for their own electricity seem to be getting out of mining, and liquidating their video cards, and there are a huge number showing up on ebay. There was one sale for multiple cards, like selling by the lot. I'm wondering, hey, maybe I should buy that, and then resell on craigslist? Seems craigslist prices still haven't gotten the memo, the sellers are still trying to get like $400 per 7950 when you can buy a brand new 280X for around $300, silly.

Anyway, my outlook is still positive for bitcoin. I've purchased more directly through coinbase, which I plan to hold. Then, I'm continuing to mine and will hold coins too. Even if electricity costs more, I'll still keep on mining in the hopes prices will rise later on.

 

[Zargon]

Is this sarcasm? Or is it really like this in your country? I have never ever heard anyone make a claim that solar and wind energies are bad for the environment, so I assume this is some kind of joke?

go look for large environmental impact studies for those


they barely exist, because its new. we have no idea what all the turbulence could do long term, we know they raise the temperature locally a slight bit

 

[taserbro]

Maybe a stupid question, However is it to late to join the mining adventures? Or am I too late to the show?

It's not too late per say but you've got many days of reading and learning ahead of you if you want to make any sort of tidy profits as opposed to barely above your power bill revenues. It's no longer a game about investing into a sound setup and patiently waiting for the numbers to crunch, and more of a game of ruthless opportunism and knowing everything that's going on and splitting your hash-power according to carefully calculated risk assessments.

There're a couple altcoins currently profitable to mine and dump but the price of bitcoins itself is quite low and with the current trends, holding onto your coins is marrying you with a lot of sleepless nights of refreshing forums.

 

[Attic]

Regarding the cost of power and what environmental impact is based on avenues of energy production, it's a worthwhile thing to look into. Though it's an unclear path IMO.

Easiest thing we can do is consume less. Yea mining uses lots of electricity, but i'll rationalize it (hate when folks do that) by thinking the chance to upset the massive corruption of the monetary system is worth it. When I trace the lanes of corruption in the USA it always comes down to influence of control granted by a selective and incredibly corrupt monetary system. Most chances to unroost that status quo is worthwhile.

But consuming less, one of the easiest ways to try and achieve it is to focus on filling up your trash can only 50% or less each week. It'll get you to focus on what you are throwing away, how to lessen that, and it's easy to see the results.


Also another exchange is insolvent. I hope it is more than greed that is keeping miners in the game at this point.

 

[JDG1980]

Well, BTC is down to ~$550, probably because Vircurex just took a dump. (Why do people persist in using these shady foreign exchanges instead of Coinbase?) Who knows how long this will last. I was fortunate enough to sell ~0.25 BTC from mining back when it spiked to ~$675 a couple weeks back. Now I've got another ~0.10 BTC and I'm going to hang on to it for now. Not worth cashing out for what will probably be less than $50 after fees. Still, my extra 7870 has more than paid for itself now, and my primary 7870 (which I bought mostly for madVR and PS2/GCN emulation) has also gone a long way towards covering its own keep, so I feel pretty good about it, despite recent drawbacks.

I've switched my mining from Scrypt multipools to Vertcoin starting last night. This coin was specifically designed to be ASIC-resistant, so I expect to see a spike in interest once ASICs drown out Radeons from the Scrypt scene. It's already about doubled its price in BTC over the past couple of days. At the moment I'd be slightly better off sticking with the multipool, but this is basically a calculated bet for the near future, and as electrical bills are included in my rent, I'm not really risking anything except some minor opportunity costs.

 

[hondaf17]

~Wattage = TDP * (OC Core / Stock Core) * (OC Voltage / Stock Voltage)^2

So to answer your question, your thermal load will increase by a factor of (885/800) which is approximately 10.63% more for your cooler to dissipate, leading to increased temperatures.

However, if you were able to undervolt your card by maybe 0.05V you would offset the increased wattage from the clock speed increase. This is only possible with a good chip, though.

Thanks.