Cure for cancer here?? Doctors using polio virus to kill cancer!!!

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tortillasoup

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2011
1,977
3
81
They also had another patient who was given a very tiny dose and they too had an aggressive immune response. Some people's immune systems are very reactive so they'll need to account for massive swelling when doing these treatments.
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
Can't read / watch right now, but I have a hard time believing the virus can distinguish a cancerous cell from a non-cancerous one. Of the billions of "letters" encoded in the DNA strand (which get corrupted to cause runaway reproduction), how would a virus identify a specific mutation to determine if an individual cell is cancerous before infecting / destroying it?

I don't think it does. I think they inject the polio directly into the tumor. Brain surgery. It spreads through the tumor from there. I think the dosage is even more important here because too much may mean it transmits through the tumor to the brain.

Also they use a special lab modified version of the virus which has fewer of the polio things. Or reduced risk of getting polio or something.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
I wonder when we'll get nanobots that will just eat cancers alive.

If I understand correctly, even nano bots would have to capture every cell in your body (or, at least, in the body's systems where the targeted cancer cells could invade). The nanobots would have to analyze the DNA of each captured cell to determine if it's part of the targeted cancer before destroying it or releasing it. I don't know how nanobots would get through every cell that could possibly be cancerous, especially considering that "passed" cells would keep getting captured / re-analyzed by other nanobots.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
I don't think it does. I think they inject the polio directly into the tumor. Brain surgery. It spreads through the tumor from there. I think the dosage is even more important here because too much may mean it transmits through the tumor to the brain.

Also they use a special lab modified version of the virus which has fewer of the polio things. Or reduced risk of getting polio or something.

Well, then, I don't see how that's any better than just cutting the tumor out. It would have to get every single cell with cancerous DNA to be effective on terminal cancers...including the stray ones spreading through the body's systems that haven't metastasized into a tumor yet.
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
Well, then, I don't see how that's any better than just cutting the tumor out. It would have to get every single cell with cancerous DNA to be effective on terminal cancers...including the stray ones spreading through the body's systems that haven't metastasized into a tumor yet.

Well, Dr. Didntwatch-Notadoctor, you may be right.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,284
3,905
75
They also had another patient who was given a very tiny dose and they too had an aggressive immune response. Some people's immune systems are very reactive so they'll need to account for massive swelling when doing these treatments.

They also talked about adding a second medication to help alleviate the swelling. This may be a treatment that requires secondary treatment for the side effects. This is not uncommon in cancer treatments.

Also, the swelling wouldn't be such a problem in most cancers. They just happened to test this in an organ that's very sensitive to swelling. :\
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
Well, then, I don't see how that's any better than just cutting the tumor out. It would have to get every single cell with cancerous DNA to be effective on terminal cancers...including the stray ones spreading through the body's systems that haven't metastasized into a tumor yet.

You guys must have missed this part:

Other researchers are experimenting with cancer treatments using viruses including HIV, small pox and measles. But polio was Dr. Gromeier's choice because, as luck would have it, it seeks out and attaches to a receptor that is found on the surface of the cells that make up nearly every kind of solid tumor. It's almost as if polio had evolved for the purpose.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
These trials have been going on for a few years now, with some very good data. Not always successful, as so many cancers are so very different from each other. Probably not a cure for everything, but could very well be a significant weapon in the arsenal.

I did not watch the thing yet but I heard about this. It's pretty sweet.

It makes me wonder if there is a natural way to cure Cancer. Or rather, if there would have been a natural way to cure Cancer. In the evolution of things, is it possible that polio emerged as a natural counter to Cancer? Then we killed polio and so it never had a chance to evolve into a natural cure? Or something? Or something similar to what this might mean?

Legit question. It may not even make sense. I'm not a doctor, or a biologist, or an anthropologist, or a science geek.

actually, yes. That's part of the background of how this idea came into being. The human genome is littered with tons of ancient viral DNA that was long considered "inactive"--"trash DNA" which refers to the bulk of the genome that never codes for any protein. It's now a trash term, because we now know that non-coding DNA is actually very, very important.

The thought being, we probably developed immunity to these diseases and others, by incorporating these sequences into our genome--and most of this stuff is found in all humans, so this is a very early adaptation. How it happened...I dunno. Probably some fetuses over many years took on various viral loads early on in development, so it went germline, and you have some super-babies born to various populations that suffered a rather unfortunate culling due to some outbreaks. Those super babies survived.

...something like that.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Well, then, I don't see how that's any better than just cutting the tumor out. It would have to get every single cell with cancerous DNA to be effective on terminal cancers...including the stray ones spreading through the body's systems that haven't metastasized into a tumor yet.

the way this works is that some virus naturally occur with cell-surface receptors specific to certain cells, or can be engineered that way.

So, these little anti-cancer bombs get introduced into the bloodstream and specifically target any such cell--in this case, all cancer cells derived from tumors.

The main issue would be the high mutation rate from tumor to tumor, but it is becoming extremely fast, and not really all that difficult, to account for this mutation rate and cook up a new stew of various target sequences in each dose that can account for all possible mutations.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
The polio virus receptor (aka CD155) is on many many different cells, not just tumor cells. The virus they're using here should be able to enter most of them. There's little to no cancer specificity there.

Having just scanned the article, I think it works similar to how the HPV based oncolytic viruses work.

So - a normal cell has tumor suppressor genes, the two main ones being p53 and RB. They're both multifunctional, but generally act to stop cell growth or cause apoptosis (cell death) if things seem to be going wrong. There's a very long list of cancers in which either or both of these genes are mutated, including glioblastoma. link. (TP53 at the top)

When HPV infects a normal cell, it makes two genes, (among others) E6 and E7, which bind to and inactivate RB and p53. This allows (or causes) the cell to grow and makes it more difficult to kill. Rarely it can even make the cell cancerous.

Now, what happens when you make an HPV without E6 and E7? It can't grow in a normal cell (even though it can enter it) because it RB and p53 are there stop it. It's an abortive infection. But if it gets in a tumor cell it can grow due to no functional p53/RB, and eventually lyse the cell. Thus, the cancer cell is permissive to the virus, normal cells aren't. That's where the specificity is.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
136
This method is only the foundation of a much more advanced practice that'll become widespread in future generations. Like the first use of gunpowder VS today.

It holds great promise as the definitive cure for most cancers, but it is going to take a lot of trial and error before the methodology and the techniques are tested and practiced to become standard medicine and treatment.

We really are in the infancy of manipulating the immune system into achieving pinpoint accurate results, but the potential is quite remarkable in the end.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
So this means....

THE POLIO VACCINE CAUSES CANCER!


/dons measles flame suit



P.S. My polio vaccine tasted like bubblegum. Would dose again.
 
Last edited:

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,128
5,657
126
So this means....

THE POLIO VACCINE CAUSES CANCER!


/dons measles flame suit



P.S. My polio vaccine tasted like bubblegum. Would dose again.



From my limited understanding, this situation kinda sounds like Monsanto GMOs and Roundup. The difference being that the Polio Vaccine makes us Immune to Polio, this recombined Polio Virus makes our Antibodies attack the tumour thinking it's a Polio infection.

Not a perfect comparison, rather flawed actually. What struck me was the sorta circular nature of them. The altering of one thing (GMO Crop/Polio Immunity) then adding a second thing (Roundup/Recombined Polio Virus) to eradicate an undesirable thing.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
For such a new study where they're only coming up to two dozen patients, results don't seem that bad.
 

inachu

Platinum Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,387
2
41
Can someone give me the TL;DW; version?

They remove the polio DNA from the polio cell and they edit the DNA of the polio so that it just attacks the cancer.


Before and after xrays show the cancer all over the body.

The after video shows depending on the how they edited the polio that the cancer cell will either shrivel up and die or will die by exploding.
 
May 11, 2008
20,055
1,290
126
The polio virus receptor (aka CD155) is on many many different cells, not just tumor cells. The virus they're using here should be able to enter most of them. There's little to no cancer specificity there.

Having just scanned the article, I think it works similar to how the HPV based oncolytic viruses work.

So - a normal cell has tumor suppressor genes, the two main ones being p53 and RB. They're both multifunctional, but generally act to stop cell growth or cause apoptosis (cell death) if things seem to be going wrong. There's a very long list of cancers in which either or both of these genes are mutated, including glioblastoma. link. (TP53 at the top)

When HPV infects a normal cell, it makes two genes, (among others) E6 and E7, which bind to and inactivate RB and p53. This allows (or causes) the cell to grow and makes it more difficult to kill. Rarely it can even make the cell cancerous.

Now, what happens when you make an HPV without E6 and E7? It can't grow in a normal cell (even though it can enter it) because it RB and p53 are there stop it. It's an abortive infection. But if it gets in a tumor cell it can grow due to no functional p53/RB, and eventually lyse the cell. Thus, the cancer cell is permissive to the virus, normal cells aren't. That's where the specificity is.

Man, i always love reading your posts. :thumbsup::wub::thumbsup:
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
The stupid mobile version of the site linked in the OP won't give me any way to play part 2.

I *hate* mobile sites...
 

KlokWyze

Diamond Member
Sep 7, 2006
4,451
9
81
www.dogsonacid.com
They remove the polio DNA from the polio cell and they edit the DNA of the polio so that it just attacks the cancer.


Before and after xrays show the cancer all over the body.

The after video shows depending on the how they edited the polio that the cancer cell will either shrivel up and die or will die by exploding.

:thumbsup:
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,234
136
They remove the polio DNA from the polio cell and they edit the DNA of the polio so that it just attacks the cancer.


Before and after xrays show the cancer all over the body.

The after video shows depending on the how they edited the polio that the cancer cell will either shrivel up and die or will die by exploding.

Did you watch the same video? I didn't see it removing stuff "all over the body." Only a specific tumor that was injected.
 
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