Cure for Death explored

[Eli]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
My only worry about this article...and considering that I work in a Level 1 Trauma Center...arguably one of the better ones in the country...is that people will hear about this and get false hope thing going. It looks good so far and at least for sudden cardiac arrest, but how it's gonna work out for someone having a stroke who has sudden cardiac arrest. Or gunshot wounds, stab wounds etc. Does this sort of treatment help with that as well? Because the unfortunate thing is that sudden cardiac arrest is usually CAUSED by something else...I guess I'll have to read this study in depth

Yeah, but more knowledge is always a good thing. This just goes to show you how little we actually do know in the scheme of things. It's kinda mind boggling that we hadn't studied our dying cells until just recently, no?

But yes, it should. The whole idea is that your cells do not die after 5 minutes with no oxygen. It doesn't matter what the cause is. With current technology, there wouldn't be much we could do to save someone who has all 10 pints of blood pooled next to him on the concrete. But nearly every one of his 10 trillion cells are actually still alive, and in theory, we may be able to do something about it eventually.

Now if someone was run over by a freight train, or decapitated, they're pretty much fscked.

 

[Kaervak]

Well, I'm not even a EMT-Basic yet and what I've learned has already been contradicted by medical science. Very very cool stuff though.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
My only worry about this article...and considering that I work in a Level 1 Trauma Center...arguably one of the better ones in the country...is that people will hear about this and get false hope thing going. It looks good so far and at least for sudden cardiac arrest, but how it's gonna work out for someone having a stroke who has sudden cardiac arrest. Or gunshot wounds, stab wounds etc. Does this sort of treatment help with that as well? Because the unfortunate thing is that sudden cardiac arrest is usually CAUSED by something else...I guess I'll have to read this study in depth

You'll die from gunshot wounds/knife stabs because
a) organs are damaged
and
b) loss of blood

Read the article more carefully!

However, the side effect of being cured of death is having green skin, a flat head, bolts in your neck, huge scars, and a tendancy to walk with your arms stretched out ahead of you while grunting "uuuuuggghhhhh!"

I am still ROFLing!! :laugh:
SIG MATREIAL!!!!

 

[Auryg]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
My only worry about this article...and considering that I work in a Level 1 Trauma Center...arguably one of the better ones in the country...is that people will hear about this and get false hope thing going. It looks good so far and at least for sudden cardiac arrest, but how it's gonna work out for someone having a stroke who has sudden cardiac arrest. Or gunshot wounds, stab wounds etc. Does this sort of treatment help with that as well? Because the unfortunate thing is that sudden cardiac arrest is usually CAUSED by something else...I guess I'll have to read this study in depth

Yeah, but more knowledge is always a good thing. This just goes to show you how little we actually do know in the scheme of things. It's kinda mind boggling that we hadn't studied our dying cells until just recently, no?

But yes, it should. The whole idea is that your cells do not die after 5 minutes with no oxygen. It doesn't matter what the cause is. With current technology, there wouldn't be much we could do to save someone who has all 10 pints of blood pooled next to him on the concrete. But nearly every one of his 10 trillion cells are actually still alive, and in theory, we may be able to do something about it eventually.

Now if someone was run over by a freight train, or decapitated, they're pretty much fscked.

Heck, in the future, even decapitation might be fixed by this. If the technology gets to the point where they can atleast connect the spine and other vital vitals, such as the jugular, and slap in some stem cells there, all within the time it takes for the cells to die..what's to stop them from reviving you then?

..freight train you're still screwed though.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
My only worry about this article...and considering that I work in a Level 1 Trauma Center...arguably one of the better ones in the country...is that people will hear about this and get false hope thing going. It looks good so far and at least for sudden cardiac arrest, but how it's gonna work out for someone having a stroke who has sudden cardiac arrest. Or gunshot wounds, stab wounds etc. Does this sort of treatment help with that as well? Because the unfortunate thing is that sudden cardiac arrest is usually CAUSED by something else...I guess I'll have to read this study in depth

Yeah, but more knowledge is always a good thing. This just goes to show you how little we actually do know in the scheme of things. It's kinda mind boggling that we hadn't studied our dying cells until just recently, no?

But yes, it should. The whole idea is that your cells do not die after 5 minutes with no oxygen. It doesn't matter what the cause is. With current technology, there wouldn't be much we could do to save someone who has all 6 pints of blood pooled next to him on the concrete. But nearly every one of his 10 trillion cells are actually still alive, and in theory, we may be able to do something about it eventually.

Now it someone was run over by a freight train, or decapitated, they're pretty much fscked.

Well obviously on your last point. But some trauma injuries there just isn't any hope no matter how much blood or fluids you could get into them(or even this experimental treatment). If this kinda stuff is real and can be repeated over and over again thats great but you start to really hit a moral and ethical wall here. Especially with brain damage, long term survival, quality of life, etc.

At this point it's a great start but I wouldn't get too excited just yet until these results are replicated on a large scale AND long term survival, quality of life etc are good.

Pardon me for being the cynic in all this, but I average seeing one person die per shift sometimes 3 or 4 in one shift so...I guess I have to be skeptical.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
I average seeing one person die per shift sometimes 3 or 4 in one shift so...I guess I have to be skeptical.

Where do you work, man??!

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
I average seeing one person die per shift sometimes 3 or 4 in one shift so...I guess I have to be skeptical.

Where do you work, man??!

Downtown Detroit

And that 3-4 a shift is a rarity.

But usually most nights at least 1. (2 is not uncommon at all)

We had one go this afternoon, and one yesterday afternoon.

One was a gunshot....one was...ironically a sudden cardiac arrest

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Eli
That article just blew my mind.

I know we have some ER people that post, I'd really like to see what they think about this.

Edit: This needs some serious ++study.

The research takes them deep into the machinery of the cell, to the tiny membrane-enclosed structures known as mitochondria where cellular fuel is oxidized to provide energy. Mitochondria control the process known as apoptosis, the programmed death of abnormal cells that is the body's primary defense against cancer. "It looks to us," says Becker, "as if the cellular surveillance mechanism cannot tell the difference between a cancer cell and a cell being reperfused with oxygen. Something throws the switch that makes the cell die."

If thats true, that means it would probably be something "wrong" with the P53 cancer suppressor gene. We could probably eventually "fix" it.

I put those words in quotes because we don't know enough about it all to really know... I'm sure its a very complex process, and in all likelyhood their guess is probably wrong even if it's on the right track.

This could eventually lead to being able to "kill" someone for a period of time, and then bring them back as if nothing happened - suspended animation.

I suspect that we're getting close to having to ask, "what is death?". If we're really able to revive even 50% of people that have died of natural causes - even an hour after they've died, that would be amazing. Where would it end? People could be jumpstarted over and over again. It would just be when an organ was so far gone that it just simply didn't work anymore - and that we couldn't replace - that you would actually die.

And even at that point, you wouldn't really be "dead". Sticking someone in the fridge probably just stretches it out.

Sure does make it all weird.

Clinical death is defined as brain death as of right now. If they can figure out a way to prevent brain damage from lack of oxygen, then while its likely the definition wouldnt change, there'd be a lot less death from anoxia.

I've also heard of suspended animation stuides (done on dogs) that kept it alive for several hours by removing all its blood and transfusing it with a saline solution. After a few hours, they pumped the blood back in and woke him back up.

For what its worth, human cells that I've worked with do freeze magnificently well in liquid nitrogen. Just freeze em out and grow em. But obviously, its quite a bit more complicated than that with a whole human. But it'd normally take the cells about 3-4 days without nourishment to die on their own in culture.

 

[Dritnul]

Originally posted by: AsianriceX
Wow. That article completely blows my mind.

+1

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: Eli
It's kinda mind boggling that we hadn't studied our dying cells until just recently, no?

I'm sure we have but the problem is that the bodies they get in for study likely have already tried to have been revived. They look at the cells and see that they are dead, thus they conclude that after 5 minutes or so the body cannot be revived because the cells die.

 

[rhino56]

i love technology

 

[LongCoolMother]

very cool. id hate to be the one having "new" procedures tested on though.... -_-

 

[Saint Nick]

This is where the world is going. The medical and bioinformatics field has a lot to offer in the next few decades. We need to stop investing in frivolous oil wars and global warming scares. This is where its at.

 

[toolboxolio]

It's guys like that who are going to make the future..... FUTURISTIC!

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: NightDarker
This is where the world is going. The medical and bioinformatics field has a lot to offer in the next few decades. We need to stop investing in frivolous oil wars and global warming scares. This is where its at.

Yeah, because global warming is a hoax. The scientists just take the money and party with it. I mean, to think that doing research into a controversial area might actually help to come to more solid conclusions about it (as if it wasnt obvious enough already)...oh thats just silly talk. :roll:

 

[deerslayer]

Interesting.

 

[loup garou]

I love that some guy posted the HD-DVD code in the article comments.

 

[jimbob200521]

That is nothing short of incredible...

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Triumph
or the persistent craving for brains.

Sounds like P&N

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
However, the side effect of being cured of death is having green skin, a flat head, bolts in your neck, huge scars, and a tendancy to walk with your arms stretched out ahead of you while grunting "uuuuuggghhhhh!"

Don't forget the big platform boots.

 

[Phokus]

"I FOUND THE CURE FOR DEATH!!!!!"


LOL

That sounds really funny hehe.

 

[PeeluckyDuckee]

Very interesting discovery how the re-entry of oxygen is the trigger for the cells death.

 

[manowar821]

Now all those dead people have died for no reason!! WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE?!?!

 

[jwebj]

this one is also pretty interesting

 

[911paramedic]

Raiden256
This would basically explain the whole boy falls in a lake, drowns, then is rescusitated (sp? no idea...) much later scenario.

No, that explains why a persons metabolism and needs for O2 drop..."You're not dead until you are warm and dead" is a long standing saying in the EMS community.

As for the article, needs A LOT OF RESEARCH. I also think its a bit premature to print something like that. Even on a 12 lead in the field we can tell where a heart attack is happening because the electrical impulses travel slower, or not at all, through necrotic (dead) tissue. Starve a cell of 02 and it will die, this is anatomy/physiology 101.

I have SERIOUS reservations about this claim. (The cooling down part is correct, and is frequently used in open heart surgery...but that's to limit the hearts use of O2.)