Current PC worth upgrading, or just buy all new parts?

[nwo]

If I go with the Fracal Design "Define Mini", it looks like it is MicroATX - any suggestions for a good motherboard that will fit?

Edit: How much am I limiting myself by choosing a MicroATX case? I prefer the smaller towers as long as I'm not giving up any kind of important features.

Depends on what features you are looking for.

 

[mchas]

Depends on what features you are looking for.

To be honest, I don't know all of the capabilities of the newer boards. Some things that I would think are important though:

- plenty of USB 3.0 ports
- SATA3 6.0 obviously for the SSD
- probably want the option of going up to 32GB of RAM eventually
- space to add a bigger CPU HSF and video card later
- HDMI?
- bluetooth/wifi might be nice but probably not a big deal?

What else should I be thinking about?

Edit 1: Oh, and if I am using onboard graphics, I need a DVI port that will support at least my current 27" 2560x1440 and hopefully higher in case I get a 30" eventually.

Edit 2: Actually it looks like my monitor has an HDMI port? Dell U2711 27"

 

[Cerb]

If I go with the Fracal Design "Define Mini", it looks like it is MicroATX - any suggestions for a good motherboard that will fit?

Yes. Look several posts up. The Q87M vPro or Z87M Extreme4 would give all PCI-e slots, though. The Asus H87M-Pro would a good choice, for multiple monitors, having DVI and DP (convertible to DVI with a passive cable) on the back panel.

Edit: How much am I limiting myself by choosing a MicroATX case? I prefer the smaller towers as long as I'm not giving up any kind of important features.

Fewer possible HDDs, and 3 fewer slots on the motherboard.

 

[mchas]

Yes. Look several posts up. The Q87M Pro4 or Z87M Extreme4 would give all PCI-e slots, though. The Asus H87M-Pro would a good choice, for multiple monitors, having DVI and DP on the back panel.

Fewer possible HDDs, and 3 fewer slots on the motherboard.

Ah yes, sorry - I forgot you included that in your earlier post - thank you. I am trying to think about too many things all at once, basically coming up to speed on the last 5+ years of technology.

I don't think I care about having more than 2 or 3 HDDs, as I'll probably only have the SDD and possibly one additional HDD.

Do I need to worry about any kind of fan control on the motherboard if my goal is to reduce noise, or do they all pretty much do the same things?

 

[nwo]

Ah yes, sorry - I forgot you included that in your earlier post - thank you. I am trying to think about too many things all at once, basically coming up to speed on the last 5+ years of technology.

I don't think I care about having more than 2 or 3 HDDs, as I'll probably only have the SDD and possibly one additional HDD.

Do I need to worry about any kind of fan control on the motherboard if my goal is to reduce noise, or do they all pretty much do the same things?

You just want to make sure your motherboard has fan connectors so that you do not need to buy a seperate fan controller or run them off of the molex power connector. If you run them directly from the PSU power connectors, they will always run at full speed and you will not be able to control their noise/RPM.

 

[Cerb]

- plenty of USB 3.0 ports

Short of ~$200 boards, you can get 4 on the back, and a header for 2 on the front, generally. If you want more, you'll need to get a card. Renesas-based cards are good choices.

- SATA3 6.0 obviously for the SSD

Standard.

- probably want the option of going up to 32GB of RAM eventually

4 RAM slots will allow that.

- space to add a bigger CPU HSF and video card later

IMO, just go ahead and plan for the HSF. Anything will have room to add a video card, if you want, though. A large CPU HSF can be a pain to install, and more of a pain to change later, but isn't too costly.

- HDMI?

Quite common.

- bluetooth/wifi might be nice but probably not a big deal?

Uncommon, but easily addable by cards or USB dongles.

What else should I be thinking about?

Edit 1: Oh, and if I am using onboard graphics, I need a DVI port that will support at least my current 27" 2560x1440 and hopefully higher in case I get a 30" eventually.

Edit 2: Actually it looks like my monitor has an HDMI port? Dell U2711 27"

Well, that's something to be thinking about. The Intel IGP should support 2560x1440p over DP or HDMI, but many people can't get it working right on HDMI, with that monitor (that's not an uncommon issue with HDMI), from some quick Googling. So, you'd need either a motherboard with DP, or to get a video card with DL-DVI. The GT 640 DDR3 should sport 2 DL-DVIs, plus an HDMI, be much faster than IGP in the few cases where it would matter for you, and passive versions are available, so would be a good choice if you intend to use multiple monitors in the future.

Do I need to worry about any kind of fan control on the motherboard if my goal is to reduce noise, or do they all pretty much do the same things?

A little of both. I like ASRock's most, myself, as it allows for several temp-based thresholds to be set, but they all come with some kind of controls built in. The Define Mini case (and the R4, its big brother), however, also gives you a simple fan controller switch for up to 3 fans (2 included), for down to 5V, which would probably take care of your case fan control needs.

 

[mchas]

Well, that's something to be thinking about. The Intel IGP should support 2560x1440p over DP or HDMI, but many people can't get it working right on HDMI, with that monitor (that's not an uncommon issue with HDMI), from some quick Googling. So, you'd need either a motherboard with DP, or to get a video card with DL-DVI. The GT 640 DDR3 should sport 2 DL-DVIs, plus an HDMI, be much faster than IGP in the few cases where it would matter for you, and passive versions are available, so would be a good choice if you intend to use multiple monitors in the future.

Interesting - so I should probably look for a motherboard that has DisplayPort. That narrows it down a bit.

 

[mchas]

For the motherboard, it seems like the Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H would work well (has DisplayPort, plenty of USB 3.0 ports, good reviews, not too expensive, etc.

Thoughts on that one?

Edit: looks like it doesn't get very good reviews...

 

[mchas]

After spending all day on this, here is where I am currently at:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($294.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-L12 37.8 CFM CPU Cooler ($69.97 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1.Sniper M5 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($154.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung EVO 1TB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($534.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($109.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1244.91
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-02-01 23:36 EST-0500)

I will probably hold off on buying the case and HSF until I see how quiet it is with my current case and stock fan. If it's too loud I can buy the case and cooler. I might also upgrade the PSU but I think mine should work initially.

Any additional thoughts? Thanks again guys you've been a big help.

 

[mchas]

Any thoughts on this setup before I start ordering parts?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Well, if I wanted to spend $1244 on those parts, that isn't how I'd allocate the money.

I'd spend less on the cooler. I'd buy a much smaller SSD for the OS and applications and use a cheaper HDD for storage of all data. I'd probably save a couple of hundred bucks doing that and spend it on something else----the parts you intend to buy later or next month's rent.

But that's just personal preference. I don't see anything "wrong" with your choices assuming you've confirmed the motherboard has the features you want.

 

[Cerb]

Maybe spend a bit less on the mobo, like the prior Z87 non-Sniper pick, get the 960GB M500, and a nice new PSU, such as a Seasonic S12II, XFX Core (Seasonic S12II), or Rosewill Capstone (Super Flower Golden Green). The change in SSD alone should pay for the PSU. Power supplies all degrade over time.

Also, you could get a better value cooler. You don't need the Noctua if not overclocking. I have its big brother, with a Xeon E3-1230V3, and without my video card running full blast (it's a non-blower, so warms up the air in the case a bit), my case fans don't need to go above 20% to keep it cool, and I don't even have a fan on the cooler itself, nor any case exhaust fan.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1245 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($289.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Macho Rev.A. 73.6 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($122.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: A-Data XPG V1.0 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($72.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial M500 960GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($459.00 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($109.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 520W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($65.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $1120.93
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-02-02 14:01 EST-0500)

PCPP doesn't have pricing info on the cooler, but it's about $50, more or less depending on the little one or the big one. The Xeon E3 is officially supported by Adobe for Photoshop, so it amounts to saving $5 for the equivalent of buying a Quadro, should you ever need to hit up Adobe for troubleshooting. The Turbo difference is negligible, 3.9 v. 3.8GHz, to the point where most of time it's not even enough to show up in application benchmarks. The Crucial M500 is a fine SSD, and the 960GB offers the best GB/$ of any SSDs out there, today.

 

[mfenn]

Given that the OP has a MicroCenter nearby, I think that their 4770K + mobo combo deal is a no brainer. Sure he doesn't need the unlocked aspect of the K processor, but only the K is eligible for the combo.

i7 4770K + GA-Z87MX-D3H combo $345 @ MC
Team DDR3 1600 8GB $67
Crucial M500 960GB $459
Corsair 350D $100 - the Define Mini is nice too
Antec Neo Eco 520C $40 AR AP
Noctua NH-U12S $66 - thinner cooler with less overhang on smaller MicroATX boards
Total: $1077 AR AP

 

[Cerb]

I agree. See, I totally forgot about the Microcenter answer, being all drugged up (I believe I did offer that disclaimer, earlier). IMO, the Define Mini is the better case, though, for set it and forget it quietness. Nice find on the PSU.

 

[mchas]

I really like the idea of being able to buy a lot of the parts at MicroCenter, if I can get that good of a deal. I just checked though and unfortunately, the one by me is out of stock on the i7 4770K. Should I wait for them to get more in or should I pick a different processor?

Edit: Also, I don't see the GA-Z87MX-D3H mobo as an option, only the full ATX version. The location near me is the CA - Orange County one which probably makes a difference.

 

[mfenn]

I really like the idea of being able to buy a lot of the parts at MicroCenter, if I can get that good of a deal. I just checked though and unfortunately, the one by me is out of stock on the i7 4770K. Should I wait for them to get more in or should I pick a different processor?

They usually restock common items like the CPU pretty quick. If you want to buy now, the i5 4670K only slightly slower than the i7 4770K, either one would be a ridiculously big upgrade your Athlon 64 X2.

 

[mchas]

Shoot, it looks like the i5 4670K is out of stock as well.

 

[nwo]

Shoot, it looks like the i5 4670K is out of stock as well.

How about 3570k...? :awe:

That seems uncanny for any retail store, especially Micro Center. Give it a couple of days or ask them when they will have some more in stock.

 

[mchas]

What do you guys think about this power supply?

Seasonic SS-660XP2 ATX 12V/EPS 12V, 660W, 80 PLUS PLATINUM Full Modular

Looks like it's on sale for $99 w/ coupon on NewEgg, plus a $20 rebate so $79.99. I like the full-modular aspect, and their fan technology seems like it should make it pretty quiet (fan gets faster only if needed)

Edit: and free shipping too. $80 and free shipping seems like a really good deal for this PSU

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Excellent price on an excellent PSU.

It's overkill on wattage, but hard to complain about given the price.

The only qualms I'd have is the rebate issue---will it ever arrive?

 

[mfenn]

What do you guys think about this power supply?

Seasonic SS-660XP2 ATX 12V/EPS 12V, 660W, 80 PLUS PLATINUM Full Modular

Looks like it's on sale for $99 w/ coupon on NewEgg, plus a $20 rebate so $79.99. I like the full-modular aspect, and their fan technology seems like it should make it pretty quiet (fan gets faster only if needed)

Edit: and free shipping too. $80 and free shipping seems like a really good deal for this PSU

It's a really good power supply, but it is also completely pointless overkill for the machine you're building. You're looking at a 80W machine here, any ATX PSU you buy will be barely doing anything.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

I primarily use my computer for general work stuff (internet, docs, scanning/printing, etc), photo editing (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc) and that's about it. No gaming.

My primary goals are:
- really fast so I don't waste time
- really quiet because I leave it on 24/7 in my room (I spent a lot of time finding the quietest HDD and fans when I built this one, which is a reason I liked the SSD idea)
- plenty of storage space

After spending all day on this, here is where I am currently at:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($294.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-L12 37.8 CFM CPU Cooler ($69.97 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1.Sniper M5 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($154.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung EVO 1TB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($534.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($109.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1244.91
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-02-01 23:36 EST-0500)

I will probably hold off on buying the case and HSF until I see how quiet it is with my current case and stock fan. If it's too loud I can buy the case and cooler. I might also upgrade the PSU but I think mine should work initially.

Any additional thoughts? Thanks again guys you've been a big help.

You are, IMHO, overbuilding. Alot. An i7 build usually has some high requirements of the user. No offense, but you seem to be a fairly casual user. What if I told you I could build you a computer that you would not be able to tell the day-to-day performance difference AND keep $500.- in your pocket?

Go to microcenter and grab an i3 4340 with Asus mATX B85M-E/CSM for $216 after taxes. It has display port and the i3 is HD4600 integrated graphics. Oh, and it's in stock at your local MC

What is your current HD usage? Are you sure you need a 1tb SSD? It makes much more fiscal sense to run a HD behind an SSD like 240gb for $120 plus 1 TB for around $60.

Then use the rest of mfenns build

Team DDR3 1600 8GB $67
Corsair 350D $100 - the Define Mini is nice too
Antec Neo Eco 520C $40 AR AP
Noctua NH-U12S $66 - thinner cooler with less overhang on smaller MicroATX boards

$669.- :ninja:

If you drop the aftemarket CPU cooler you save even more. And, again, will probably not really notice.

 

[nwo]

New i3 Haswells are really good from the (gaming) benchmarks I have seen. Intel has a made a huge improvement in the i3 Haswell line compared to their previous i3's. I would recommend saving some $$$ and going that route as well since you're a casual user and I doubt you will be able to notice a difference between an i3 and i5 or i7.

 

[Cerb]

Meanwhile, even with the recommendations that don't involve dropping an aftermarket cooler, there's a solid $100-250 to be saved, though some of it would be contingent upon Microcenter. The current Intel HSFs are almost comical, with how small they've gotten, and any i5 or up definitely will buzz/whine just as much as they ever did.

Cooler: $20 can be saved easily by going with Thermalright, at no cooling disadvantage at all. The Macho 120 will fit with room to spare in the Define Mini.

Mobo: seems $20-30 more expensive just to have a switch or two that can be accidentally pushed.

i3 v. i5: depends, but Lightroom and PS would get a boost from an i5, and there are likely other programs the OP will use that will, too.

i5 v. i7: all want. I've got the Xeon E3-1230V3 at home, and the difference w/ HT is sometimes non-existent, but sometimes nice to have, and quite apparent. It's nowhere near worth sacrificing other parts for, but if the budget isn't so limited, whatever. It's more than the OP needs, though, and is going well into diminishing returns.

SSD : pure want, but something the OP is set on. I've got half-TB ones, so I can't say too much, there . Still, I'd get the Crucial. It's cheaper absolutely, cheaper per GB, and Crucial's consumer-level support is generally very good, should anything go wrong in the warranty period. It's also important to understand that benchmarks generally are made to try to push the hardware. Yet the reality of it, more often than not, is that the human in front of the computer, and/or the software being used, will typically present more of a bottleneck than the SSD.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

I recently bought parts following the general consensus: get an SSD big enough for your OS and installed programs, but use a mechanical drive for pictures/video. SSD is still too expensive to use for data storage. A 1TB hd can be bought for $50.

THIS.

You don't need a large SSD as the only drive in your machine. Better to use a mechanical for bulk storage.