Current PC worth upgrading, or just buy all new parts?

[mvbighead]

What the heck is this thread? Going from an archaic XP based system to throwing TONs of money at a system where almost $500 is dedicated to the storage alone? Obviously do whatever floats your boat, but...

I'd like to think you'd be wise to spend far less on a system that would be roughly 90% of some of those being quoted for almost half the cost.

I'd look for an I5 quad core with a solid board for roughly $230, 8GB of RAM, a 120GB SSD for OS and primary applications, a 2TB spinning disk for storage and extra applications, and the Windows 8 (or 7 if you don't want to go to 8, but I don't see the point in spending the same amount of money on an OS that is going to be out of support sooner).

All in all, you'd come in well under $1000, and probably could still stay under $1000 after throwing in two IPS 1080P monitors and a good keyboard and mouse set.

Do whatever floats your boat really, but if you were getting by before on that X2 system, buying an I7 to do photo editing just seems like massive overkill. It will be better than an i5 or similar, but it won't be THAT much better than the I5.

 

[Cerb]

Well, the opiates are wearing off (whew), so lessee...here's a pretty nice build from nothing, IMO:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($214.99 @ TigerDirect)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($122.98 @ SuperBiiz) <- for DP+HDMI
Memory: A-Data XPG V1.0 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial M500 480GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($259.00 @ Amazon) <- half size, but still pretty big
Storage: Toshiba 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($75.33 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($109.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($37.99 @ Microcenter) <- better fan than the normal 430, and even if the OP adds a video card and more HDDs, 150W will likely be unreached
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($16.98 @ OutletPC)
Other: Thermalright HR-02 Macho 120 ($46.90)
Total: $954.14
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-02-05 18:03 EST-0500)

Or, with a bit better PSU, that will definitely be quiet enough in the Define Mini, rather that aught-to-be:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($214.99 @ TigerDirect)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($122.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: A-Data XPG V1.0 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial M500 480GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($259.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Toshiba 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($75.33 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($109.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Rosewill Capstone 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($16.98 @ OutletPC)
Other: Thermalright HR-02 Macho 120 ($46.90)
Total: $986.14
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-02-05 18:09 EST-0500)

The OP could get by fine with a Pentium, 2x2GB RAM, and a 120GB SSD, instead, but that doesn't mean the OP won't be able to put better hardware to use. You can do a lot with faster Athlon64 or slower Core 2, as long as you can wait on the PC, and have enough RAM. Newer faster hardware is still better, though, reducing, often even removing, much of the waiting.

I used a similar PC at work to the OP's, and it got me by. So far, there's only been one thing I've needed to do that it would not have been up to, and that was due to lack of an SSD, rather than reduced RAM or running an A64 X2. But, it's much better having an IB i5 and SSD, instead .

 

[mfenn]

Cerb, you're forgetting MC again. The price you're looking at for an i5 4670 + mobo will get you an i7 4770K + mobo at MC in the combo I linked.

Mvbighead, the OP is pretty insistent on the 1TB SSD idea. We've tried to talk him out of it on pretty much every page of this thread, but he keeps coming back to the idea. I agree that spending $125 on an M500 240GB and $60 on a WD Blue 1TB drive would make more sense. However, a $1000 build is already undershooting his budget by 50%, so at some point you just have to go with the flow.

 

[mchas]

Thanks for all of the comments guys. I will post another update with all of the parts I ended up ordering when I am at my computer, but for now I thought I'd explain my thought process a bit:

I agree 100% that the machine I am building is overkill. However, I know I won't be doing this again for at least another 5-7 years so I wanted to get the best setup I could that would be very future-proof.

Also I don't think I explained my typical usage very well. I mostly do simple email/web stuff and some photo editing, but I also use the computer for work-related tasks, including hosting virtual machines, software dev, accounting, etc. Again probably overkill but time is valuable and I didn't want to waste any more of it waiting on a slow computer (in fact I feel stupid for waiting as long as I did to upgrade!).

I would have done the Microcenter thing to save some $ but it seemed like they were out of stock on all of the decent combos and I wanted to purchase ASAP. It's also a ~40 min drive each way so taking my time and gas into account I wouldn't have saved much anyway.

And for the SSD, I know it wasn't necessary (it ended up being ~1/3 of the total cost of the build) but I went for the 1Tb anyway. My goal was quietness over cost which is why I opted for that over a smaller SSD with an HDD. Looking back, my noise concerns were probably based too heavily on the older drives - it seems like the newer sata3 drives are a lot quieter but I didn't realize that until now. I also didn't want to have to manage multiple drives and always decide where to put things. Once the cost comes down, I am sure you will all be using 1TB SSDs, so I just spent a little extra and got a jump on that.

Anyway I got all of the parts except for the SSD yesterday and put it together last night. I am VERY happy you guys convinced me to buy all new components instead of trying to reuse some of my old parts. That was absolutely the right decision. I especially love the new case, it is 10x better than my old one. And everything is whisper quiet - I thought my old machine was pretty quiet but now that I have the new one, my old one sounds like a jet engine. I spent extra to buy higher quality parts and I can tell there is a big difference. Everything I ended up with is very well made.

So anyway, I will post again with the final build specs but in the mean time wanted to thank everyone for the help because you saved me hours and hours of research and steered my in the right direction and I am very pleased with what I ended up with - thank you again!

 

[mfenn]

Glad it worked out for you!

 

[mchas]

Here is what I ended up buying:

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-L12 37.8 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1.Sniper M5 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: Samsung EVO 1TB 2.5" Solid State Disk
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini MicroATX Mini Tower Case
PSU: Seasonic SS-660XP2 ATX 12V/EPS 12V, 660W
Optical: Pioneer Black Blu-ray Burner SATA BDR-2209

Also currently considering buying 1 or 2 of the Western Digital Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB drives for data storage as you guys suggested - I might buy 2 and set up RAID 1. Thoughts?

 

[Blue_Max]

Extreme overkill, but darned good components.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Also currently considering buying 1 or 2 of the Western Digital Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB drives for data storage as you guys suggested - I might buy 2 and set up RAID 1. Thoughts?

Two things will happen:
1) Boot time will slow down because the HD's have to spool up and report
2) Noise will be inevitable

Are you out of SSD space already? Otherwise consider an external HD that is used for backups only.

 

[Cerb]

Also currently considering buying 1 or 2 of the Western Digital Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB drives for data storage as you guys suggested - I might buy 2 and set up RAID 1. Thoughts?

RAID 1 makes each less useful than a backup of one to the other, especially if one is external. USB 3.0 external enclosures can get pretty close to native SATA speeds (review setups have a habit of getting || this close, and in reality, there's a lot of variation, especially with small random IOs, but it's still fast enough to let eSATA fade away).

Noise won't be a big problem, with the SSD. That is, you can probably leave the HDD spun down most of the time.

 

[mchas]

Two things will happen:
1) Boot time will slow down because the HD's have to spool up and report
2) Noise will be inevitable

Are you out of SSD space already? Otherwise consider an external HD that is used for backups only.

Definitely not out of SSD space, I just thought it would be good to have an extra HDD for media files, etc - or if I have sizeable downloads, to save them there instead of using the SSD, to hopefully prolong its lifespan. Maybe I am being paranoid about that.

I am not overly concerned about boot time because I tend to leave my computer on 24/7 and only reboot once every month or two.

RAID 1 makes each less useful than a backup of one to the other, especially if one is external. USB 3.0 external enclosures can get pretty close to native SATA speeds (review setups have a habit of getting || this close, and in reality, there's a lot of variation, especially with small random IOs, but it's still fast enough to let eSATA fade away).

Noise won't be a big problem, with the SSD. That is, you can probably leave the HDD spun down most of the time.

Not sure what you mean by "RAID 1 makes each less useful than a backup or one to the other" - my understanding was that they are exact duplicates, is that not true?

And yes my hope was that the HDD would only spin up if I was using the drive. Most of the time I won't be accessing it.

Edit: I did think about going the external HD route as well, something like the WD My Passport Ultra 1TB... but I liked the idea of having a RAID setup so I can put my photos/music/etc on there and know I have some redundancy in case of drive failure. Thoughts?

 

[monkeydelmagico]

SSD lifespan is being shown to be lengthy: http://techreport.com/review/25889/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-500tb-update

If you are using the SSD as the main drive you only need to back it up once. A HD RAID 1 would be triple. Your call on if you think that level of duplication is necessary.

 

[Cerb]

Not sure what you mean by "RAID 1 makes each less useful than a backup or one to the other" - my understanding was that they are exact duplicates, is that not true?

That is true of a RAID. That is not true of a backup, and is part of what makes a backup generally safer. Backups can save from accidental deletion, data corruption from power events of bugged software, and powered off backups can even save you from scary stuff like Cryptolocker. A backup is stuck in the past, and for protecting data, there is a lot of power in that, because data loss from things other than straight up drive failure are common.

Getting an external drive for copies of your stuff doesn't mean you shouldn't have an internal drive with copies of them, as well. More copies = more protection.

 

[mchas]

SSD lifespan is being shown to be lengthy: http://techreport.com/review/25889/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-500tb-update

If you are using the SSD as the main drive you only need to back it up once. A HD RAID 1 would be triple. Your call on if you think that level of duplication is necessary.

I should have clarified - I wouldn't use the WD Blue HDDs to back up the 1TB SSD, I was thinking of getting 2 of the WD Blues to set up RAID 1. Althought it would be nice to have a backup of my system drive, I figured I would store my "important" files on the HDD (photos, music, etc) where it would be good to have a mirror. If I lost Win7 + apps from my SDD it wouldn't be the end of the world. But given that I went with the 1TB SDD, I will probably store most of my files there anyway so maybe the HDD RAID setup doesn't make sense.

That is true of a RAID. That is not true of a backup, and is part of what makes a backup generally safer. Backups can save from accidental deletion, data corruption from power events of bugged software, and powered off backups can even save you from scary stuff like Cryptolocker. A backup is stuck in the past, and for protecting data, there is a lot of power in that, because data loss from things other than straight up drive failure are common.

Getting an external drive for copies of your stuff doesn't mean you shouldn't have an internal drive with copies of them, as well. More copies = more protection.

Ah I see what you meant now. I agree. This is what I currently do with my photos - I manually copy them to an external WD drive. That process works well enough for me (along with a cloud backup) so maybe I should stick with that instead of the internal drives.

Any thoughts on the WD My Passport Ultra 1TB for that? I like the size, so I can use it for transferring things to friends' / family's computers if needed.

 

[mfenn]

The motherboard, PSU, and SSD are all overkill. The 1TB SSD at least has a a theoretical use, but the mobo and PSU will simply never be worth their cost in this machine.

Anyway, I agree with Cerb that you shouldn't do a RAID 1 unless and until you have a backup. Backing up your photos and w/e to a USB 3.0 external drive is perfectly fine.

For additional protection, I'd recommend a software that can make incremental backups like Acronis True Image. Incrementals only copy the changed files, so are much smaller than a full backup. That lets you keep a history of backups so that you can go back to a previous point in time. Nothing worse than realizing that file was corrupted just after you copied it over.