Current raptors, Crap.

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SpeedEng66

Diamond Member
Jul 10, 2002
4,501
1
81
Originally posted by: Blain
Originally posted by: Blain
Originally posted by: sutahz
When I had the 2 raptors though, I did run them in RAID0 and seperatly but for windows startup, game load times, opening a folder w/ lots of small files (a folder w/ about 5k pictures) unraring a large RAR. Doing all that "normal every day stuff" the raptors were a big disappointment.
Originally posted by: Blain
Are you selling your Raptors?
How much for the Raptors?

im guessin Blain wants them
 

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
Originally posted by: vanvock
If you're going to gripe about the price why pay even more for a window gimmick?
The "X" windowed version are only slightly more.

 

sutahz

Golden Member
Dec 14, 2007
1,301
0
0
I purchased them, and returned them many months ago. I was just relating my experience w/ raptors so anyone else in the market for them could hear from us our opininos. You have my opinion and others on this forum (mine negative, everyone else is very happy w/ theirs).
Unlike LOUISSSSS, my windows boot time was worse (i'd have to look at my benchmark records to see RAID0 vs single raptor boot times).
bob4432 seems to like them too.
Originally posted by: bob4432
you buy the raptors for the lower seek times, not the str, which can be easily beaten by many 7.2k hdds as data density is going through the roof.
As from storagereview (which a poster on here suggested I/people read):
It is important to remember that seek time and transfer rate measurements are mostly diagnostic in nature and not really measurements of "performance" per se. Assessing these two specs is quite similar to running a processor "benchmark" that confirms "yes, this processor really runs at 2.4 GHz and really does feature a 400 MHz FSB." Many additional factors combine to yield aggregate high-level hard disk performance above and beyond these two easily measured yet largely irrelevant metrics. In the end, drives, like all other PC components, should be evaluated via application-level performance. Over the next few pages, this is exactly what we will do. Read on!

some other things from storage review:
For nearly two years, however, the Raptor's flagship capacity has stubbornly stood at 74 gigabytes. As SATA drives such as Hitachi's enormous (not to mention blazingly fast) Deskstar 7K500 and Western Digital's own Caviar WD4000KD arrived, users willing to spend some change for premium SATA storage found themselves in an unusual quandary - spring for the massive 400-500 GB capacity offered by today's huge units or go for the slight speed advantage still maintained by the Raptor while (rather ironically) saving a few bucks?

It is all too common for an enthusiast to believe that his or her usage pattern is closer to that of a server's rather than a desktop's. This idea arises from a variety of sources- "I multitask a lot," "I hear the hard drive grinding away," "I deal with lots of huge files," etc. The truth is, however, that even the heaviest, grinding multitasker experiences disk access patterns that are far more localized in nature than the truly random access that servers undergo. Individuals who choose a hard drive based on its prowess in IOMeter with the belief that their usage habits mimic a server simply do themselves a disservice. It is measures such as the SR Office and High-End DriveMarks that most accurately depict a non-server's response, whether it be the sheer speed experienced under intense disk access or the "snap and feel" associated with intermittent but bursty operations.

But yes, the Raptor is the best performing hdd. All I'm saying is the price premium (500% price increase of price/GB) for the <10% real world improvement in performance.. didn't suit me.

For anyone reading this and thinking about buying a raptor... i've noticed both bob4432 and nerp comment how the system feels faster. Like I said, at the end of the day, as long as your happy w/ what you've got/purchased, thats what matters. Your money, your choice.

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
exactly, so at the end of the day, any 10,000rpm HD will spank any 7200rpm HD
so on avg, 7% better performance is spanking? Hopefully this weekend I pull up my benchmarking numbers. Because as of now all any of has done is gave our thoughts on the subject.
 

bob4432

Lifer
Sep 6, 2003
11,695
28
91
Originally posted by: sutahz
I purchased them, and returned them many months ago. I was just relating my experience w/ raptors so anyone else in the market for them could hear from us our opininos. You have my opinion and others on this forum (mine negative, everyone else is very happy w/ theirs).
Unlike LOUISSSSS, my windows boot time was worse (i'd have to look at my benchmark records to see RAID0 vs single raptor boot times).
bob4432 seems to like them too.
Originally posted by: bob4432
you buy the raptors for the lower seek times, not the str, which can be easily beaten by many 7.2k hdds as data density is going through the roof.
As from storagereview (which a poster on here suggested I/people read):
It is important to remember that seek time and transfer rate measurements are mostly diagnostic in nature and not really measurements of "performance" per se. Assessing these two specs is quite similar to running a processor "benchmark" that confirms "yes, this processor really runs at 2.4 GHz and really does feature a 400 MHz FSB." Many additional factors combine to yield aggregate high-level hard disk performance above and beyond these two easily measured yet largely irrelevant metrics. In the end, drives, like all other PC components, should be evaluated via application-level performance. Over the next few pages, this is exactly what we will do. Read on!

some other things from storage review:
For nearly two years, however, the Raptor's flagship capacity has stubbornly stood at 74 gigabytes. As SATA drives such as Hitachi's enormous (not to mention blazingly fast) Deskstar 7K500 and Western Digital's own Caviar WD4000KD arrived, users willing to spend some change for premium SATA storage found themselves in an unusual quandary - spring for the massive 400-500 GB capacity offered by today's huge units or go for the slight speed advantage still maintained by the Raptor while (rather ironically) saving a few bucks?

It is all too common for an enthusiast to believe that his or her usage pattern is closer to that of a server's rather than a desktop's. This idea arises from a variety of sources- "I multitask a lot," "I hear the hard drive grinding away," "I deal with lots of huge files," etc. The truth is, however, that even the heaviest, grinding multitasker experiences disk access patterns that are far more localized in nature than the truly random access that servers undergo. Individuals who choose a hard drive based on its prowess in IOMeter with the belief that their usage habits mimic a server simply do themselves a disservice. It is measures such as the SR Office and High-End DriveMarks that most accurately depict a non-server's response, whether it be the sheer speed experienced under intense disk access or the "snap and feel" associated with intermittent but bursty operations.

But yes, the Raptor is the best performing hdd. All I'm saying is the price premium (500% price increase of price/GB) for the <10% real world improvement in performance.. didn't suit me.

i don't own raptors, i own 15k u320 scsi (oh no) and i would have to disagree w/ what storagereview says as i feel a definite difference between any of my 7.2k hdd and when i had 10k and now 15k - the machines are snappier, plain and simple.

and it is not because i paid a lot for my 15k hdds, or even my 10k ones as you can get those much cheaper than a raptor if you know where to look. and storage review says that the raptor is better than some of the older gen 15k scsi too, but again, the snappiness of running faster hdds has always been there for me (but i will say that some 15k hdds feel better than others - my 15k.5 feels slower than my fujitsu max). i talk what i "feel" in the computer and what makes sense - if a hdd can locate a file on a hdd faster than another, and you need to find a couple hundred files, then the one that finds the files faster will, find them faster and present them to you.

i have used raptors of friends next to my rig and next to other rigs that are 7.2k (all being very close in hardware) and imho the 15k feel faster than raptors, the raptors feel faster than 7.2k hdds in general desktop usage imho.
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
29,480
387
126
Thread like this make me think that the goal his.

I feel that my Hardware works well for me.

But to be really Happy I want that everybody else Hardware would Not work for them.

Thus far No one here show an objective proof that it is worthwhile to follow his hardware concoction as oppose to someone else advise.

Since I have few office locations I have at least 12 computers (I always build them myself). Most of the hardware mentioned here is installed on various computers.

All of these computers can do the variety of tasks assign to them. As measured in time of executions there is No real difference between them. So as far I am concern there are No differences between the top HDs that were mentioned here.

That said, it would be nice of someone can report a specific task that he/she does and show that while using the same, or similar computer, the task is significantly faster by using one HD as oppose to the other.

numerical data (Not a synthetic bench mark) about specific tasks that is performed better on account of one HD rather than the other can be helpful to another person who does the exact tasks.

Example, if someone tells me that he is engaged in a MP4 encoding and with a certain HDs he saves 3 min. of 1 hour encoding is meaningless. But if some tells me that he saves 10 minutes or more that would be useful for me.

Otherwise, the whole thread is nothing but verbal social exchange (Not the something is wrong with it) .
 

spikespiegal

Golden Member
Oct 10, 2005
1,219
9
76
All of these computers can do the variety of tasks assign to them. As measured in time of executions there is No real difference between them. So as far I am concern there are No differences between the top HDs that were mentioned here.

I've said the same thing about memory bandwidth/speed for years, and allocated that entire debate to meaningless drivel argued among those who will never have legitimate jobs in the IT sector and need a parent or guardian in a vehicle to drive.

The HD debate is something else though. I have a lot of experience configuring Server based HD arrays, and have to note I've *never* seen a WD Raptor in a corporate server farm or SANs even though a lot of them aren't exclusively SCSI based.

However, the fact remains then when all other things and considered and equal (interface speed, command queuing, etc.) the drive with the faster angular velocity *should* trump a drive with a slower angular velocity. This is especially evident with laptops and portables running gawd-aweful 5k drives where an update to 7200rpm is immedialtey obvious to even the guy rudely reading your LCD from over shoulder.

Data density is another consideration, but where RPM 'rulez' is when it comes to seek times and the ever important write speed. By all accounts, a 10k SATA drive should 'spank' a 7200 SATA drive when it comes to brute write speed, and the difference should be both obvious in terms of benchmarks and over-all 'feel' of the system. When it comes to read speed however, I'm skeptical of some of these claims because other factors haven't been taken into account such as cluster size, drive indexing enabled/disabled, etc. Write speed however is pretty tough to fake because it's such a severe physical limitation of drive technology.

I have my *own* benchmark procedure when it comes to testing drive arrays, and in my experience it's a better determination of target drive performance than many high tech benchmarks. I set up a 1 gig RAM drive, and time how long it takes to copy the i386 install directory to/from a tested drive or array with XXcopy, or something that uses RAW -vs- Core mode. The results of that test have always panned out into how that drive or array will generally behave when it comes to real world file or database handling more than benchmark software.
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
29,480
387
126
spikespiegal you are absolutely right.

The is No Question that your Corvette does better than my Mini Cooper.

However the sentiment in this thread is a claim that your Corvette does better than my Corvette because it is painted with lighter paint.:shocked:
 

LOUISSSSS

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2005
8,771
54
91
Originally posted by: JackMDS
spikespiegal you are absolutely right.

The is No Question that your Corvette does better than my Mini Cooper.

However the sentiment in this thread is a claim that your Corvette does better than my Corvette because it is painted with lighter paint.:shocked:

exactly, so at the end of the day, any 10,000rpm HD will spank any 7200rpm HD
 

sutahz

Golden Member
Dec 14, 2007
1,301
0
0
Ok I'm home and got my main rig fired up (since I got this good laptop, only turn on the main rig for gameing). So I'll post the numbers I got.

Reboot XP (fully updated, normal apps installed, non-defragmented)
RAID0 (250GBs), Raptor, Raptor RAID0
56.6s , 62.3 , 54.5
Reboot XP after defrag (PerfectDisk 7.0)
50s , 56s , 54s
Game load times (RAID0 - Raptor - Raptor RAID0)
FarCry 45s - 39s - 41s
FEAR 52s - 65s - 48s
Q4 44s - 39s - (didnt bother to get this 'score' apparently)
PCMark05 scores (RAID0 - Raptor - Raptor RAID0)
File Decryption 38.21MB/s - 37.5 -
Audio Compression 1910.13KB/s - 1841.59KB/s - 1909.91KB/s
Video Encoding 344.62KB/s - 346.53KB/s - 348.07KB/s
File Compression 4.57MB/s - 4.54MB/s - 4.55MB/s
File Encryption 22.17MB/s - 22.11MB/s - 22.56MB/s
I have a RAR file (which as you know can unrar to make a folder full of files) and its big.
Unrared the folder is 2.13GB (2.16GB on disk) and contains 17,918 files(pictures).
Time to unrar:
Maxtor RAID0 (2x250GB) - Raptor
90s - 111s
When you open a folder, it can take windows a bit of time to collect what info it wants about the files w/ in that folder. 17,918 files is no joke.
RAID0 - Raptor (time from hitting enter to open folder to windows displaying the icons, not thumbnails btw)
4.08s - 6.83s

Apparently RAID0 raptors unimpressed me so much I didnt bother running these tests on it/them. I initially ordered 1 raptor, pitted it aginst my RAID0 and was disappointed. Then it occured to me to pit raptors in raid0 against my 2x250GB raid0. As I did heavy research I found raid0 to be useless (as stated before), but I still discovered that raptors were not a good buy for me.
Oh, and I have this folder on my WD7500AAKS right now, takes about 2.6s to open. Much better then the 4.08 and 6.83s offered by RAID0 and a Raptor.
So there's the numbers I got, XP reboot times, and game level load times (yes, I saved my saved games to a flash drive, so each test/benchmark loaded up the exact same game.).

Originally posted by: Blain
[:shocked: OMG... ENOUGH ALREADY! :shocked:

Ok, your saying that the RAID0 thing has been beaten to death.
Those quotes don't touch upon Raptor vs 7200RPM drives though.
 

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
81
Originally posted by: Roguestar
Betcha RAID-0 didn't change your gaming world either.
Originally posted by: Andvari
RAID 0 Raptors provide very little performance increase whatsoever.
Originally posted by: aigomorla
But 2 drives on raid, i also noticed almost no difference.
Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
agree with the majority. raid 0 is useless for most general usage
Originally posted by: sutahz
But upon further investigation and reading more reviews on RAID0, it was found to be basically useless as well (for my needs).
Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
DIDN'T notice ANY speed difference going from single 150gb raptor -> raid 0 raptors.
Originally posted by: sutahz
Apparently RAID0 raptors unimpressed me so much I didnt bother running these tests on it/them.

:shocked: OMG... ENOUGH ALREADY! :shocked:
 
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