Cutting family ties - dick move?

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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
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As a person with a very dysfunctional family... Not seeing a big problem here, but good luck.
 
Mar 15, 2003
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Thanks guys, I appreciate all the comments because I'm quite conflicted but now my course of action's pretty clear. I spoke to my wife about it and found out some more details including my MIL mocking her for picking up drawing again instead of encouraging her ("I"M the artist of the family, not you."). My wife's opinion is the hell with all of them, she moved half-way across the country for a reason. I think this may turn into a good thing, I've had many cut the cord jokey conversations with her because her fam texts her like 70 times a day, hopefully their influences will fade with this..

I know she'll change her mind and go soft in a few months when they ask to come over again, but that's when the ultimatum will be made. If they resist then our doors are no longer open to them, we'll keep it to the yearly Christmas visit.
 
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Artdeco

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2015
2,682
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From personal experience, it's hard to cut ties with in-laws, they always know which buttons on your spouse because they programmed her.

Be kind as possible, be careful what you say in front of the kids, they'll pick up your vibe on body English alone, be cautious to not say or do anything that they or your in-laws and kids will remember forever, and remember, you married into the family as well as marrying your spouse.

Come up with some code words or carefully crafted statements about the in laws you and wife can use, the strongest relationships have their own language and words, work on that so you're not trashing the in laws openly in front of your kids inadvertently.

The kids only get 2 sets of bio grandparents per lifetime, keep them safe, but in some form of contact so they develop a realistic understanding of how messed up they are, and don't develope an unrealistic, idealized version of them, because it's human nature to think the best of people, especially in their absence.

I had one toxic MIL, and my parents were a mess, divorced wife with toxic MIL, and made peace with my dad just a few years before he unexpectedly died. My sisters are still all messed up because they never came to terms with dad, and it's been 20 years now.

Good luck, tread carefully.
 
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Mar 15, 2003
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From personal experience, it's hard to cut ties with in-laws, they always know which buttons on your spouse because they programmed her.

Be kind as possible, be careful what you say in front of the kids, they'll pick up your vibe on body English alone, be cautious to not say or do anything that they or your in-laws and kids will remember forever, and remember, you married into the family as well as marrying your spouse.

Come up with some code words or carefully crafted statements about the in laws you and wife can use, the strongest relationships have their own language and words, work on that so you're not trashing the in laws openly in front of your kids inadvertently.

The kids only get 2 sets of bio grandparents per lifetime, keep them safe, but in some form of contact so they develop a realistic understanding of how messed up they are, and don't develope an unrealistic, idealized version of them, because it's human nature to think the best of people, especially in their absence.

I had one toxic MIL, and my parents were a mess, divorced wife with toxic MIL, and made peace with my dad just a few years before he unexpectedly died. My sisters are still all messed up because they never came to terms with dad, and it's been 20 years now.

Good luck, tread carefully.


Excellent advice but shit kinda hit the fan and my wife is now on board, completely. Now let me apologize for the wall of text below, this is cheaper than therapy and everyone's so open on the internet. rhiana shows her vagina on Instagram all the time!

I'll admit that I enjoy the confrontation and egged it on, but it is what it is and the adrenaline feels kinda awesome. Not seeing her until she apologizes or doesn't is kinda awesome too. Back to the beginning, my wife drops her mother off at the airport and comes home elated.. I'm happy to see the witch and her comrades gone, but my wife is literally skipping and throwing rose petals elated.'La La La La La!' Supposedly, not only was the experience full of odd silence interrupted by my kids playing, but she was apparently just awful and passive aggressive to my wife the entire time while repeatedly insinuating that I was a bum.

Now, my wife's a saint - not only is she a great mom to 2 kids, but she works 3 jobs (!): (1) special ed teacher (to inner city high school kids at that) (2) teacher of teachers, and (3) summer sub. She works her ass off, and I'm raising the kids and keeping the house immaculate and making little movies on the weekends until I find the right gig (believe me, my standards keep creeping lower by the week, and these movies are dirt cheap and look great.).


I'm able to stay home until the wife takes over on break because we made some sacrifices - sold a house in a now hot part of Brooklyn at a tidy profit, locked some of it away and moved to a smaller place that suits us just fine with far less upkeep (I'm not atot millionaire cash positive, I sold it at a reasonable price considering I didn't want to deal with the damage the tenant did. But we live pretty comfortably, and not off of credit or family loans)..

We downscale so that we can temporarily raise our just turned 2 year old ourselves while also taking care of a 4 y.o. after school. Daycare's hella expensive for the good places ($38k a year for kindergarten, as an example! I shit you not), or shitty. My girls are also kinda cute, boys pick on them all the time, I like being around for just a bit and can afford to.

To get back to the point - we have a plan, we've repeatedly expressed the plan to the MIL (I'm watching the kids and working on the coop previously badly in need of work, she take over during break - hell, a dayjob would be less stress to be frank.)... we're not aimless hippies, and our apartment looks banging with polished walnut floors, knoll office chairs (ok, one knock off - shhh), new crate and barrel furniture and design that my wife put a lot of thought into and I put a lot of muscle into executing, quicker because her mom kinda sprung the trip on us out of nowhere.

Well, her mom walks in and pretends that literally nothing has changed. She doesn't comment that the cat pee covered couch is gone and replaced with a shiny new one from west elm, that the shredded rug is replaced with a handsome fresh one, that rooms painted and wallpapering was done - she doesn't acknowledge a thing, even though she knows I worked the past weeks at an exhausting clip to get it done for her trip. I'm not bragging because I'm balling, quite the opposite - I'm very thrifty, and paid very close to ikea prices by stalking the clearance bins. I don't expect a blowjob for being the savior of DIY interior design, but a "nice rug" would have been nice....

Apologies for the wordiness, prescribed vyvanse and celebratory champagne turns me into a chatterbox and this is theraputic (i should get a private blog, yeah) . Cutting to the chase we're both working our asses off and raising good, loving kids and kept an apartment pristine and hair free with two toddlers, two cats, and a dog while working on a side creative project quite actively and job searching at a decent clip - but, you know - I'm annoyed that she doesn't even notice, but I let it slide. She doesn't talk about the awesome looking movie trailer I just finished filming and editing during the few free hours that I have in a day (filmed for like 800 bucks too), the dope promtional website I built (the concept of which she dismissed as "I don't like horror movies) - doesn't mention it at all by the way. She doesn't bat an eye that we're both 50 pounds lighter too.

Turns out that in addition to just ignore anything positive we've done, the MIL, constantly insisted that my wife give up a hobby she recently returned to (drawing) while insisting that I'm a bum. "You have 3 jobs, your husband has none, and you're wasting your time doodling!"

Back to my wife, instead of saying "awesome," or sharing advice, instead of applauding her for finding the time to put aside and dabble in what she went to undergrad for, she criticized her for "wasting time." She didn't do this once, she did this throughout the weekend.

Again, we're not Jesus - I don't expect her to praise us for trying, but obnoxious hate like that? And my kids are pretty awesome, we're using my wife's masters in early childhood education to raise well rounded kids, and the oldest is scoring mid 90s on current metrics, all while being very social kids. Wearing always clean designer clothes, I may add (even the posh places have a bargain bin, I pay old navy prices and have clothes that lasts for years of hand downs, I'm not being pretentious - it just takes planning and effort.). Their strollers are Uppababies and their car seats Britax (if you're out of the know, snobby brands I like for solid warranties and resale value). In other words, we're not living in squaller or destitute and we're taking care of our kids while still making time for side projects. So why the hate? Why the insistence that her daughter throw away a hobby she enjoys, drawing and making absurd little comic strips meant for no one but for the joy of drawing? Why shit on her parade, like she did all of her life?

I didn't know this until today, and I sorta flipped out, kinda hotheadedly and kinda on purpose. I did take a breather and really did think about it with my wife and asked for permission, then flipped out calculatedly but passionately, so I think I won't be dealing with her for a while. And my wife is ok with that. I figured a phone call would be terrifying to the mil ("I don't like conflict, but I like starting shit!), and they're pretty awful about talking about their feelings, so I sent her a very clearly worded email.

I got most pissed when I realized why she's trying to discourage my wife - when my wife was 10 her mother flat out told her: "I'm [the mother] the artist in the family. You need to stop drawing immediately, you're no good." I bluntly told her to back off, and am very aware that it'll probably just instigate her. Whatevs. At the end of the day my cute grandkid capital is more valuable than her midwestern housewife with no marketable skills value and conversational skills limited to the weather and teams i don't follow... I'm in no rush and my heart not torn if a fractured relationship means visits are cut down to holidays and funerals.
 
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tortillasoup

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2011
1,977
3
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I got most pissed when I realized why she's trying to discourage my wife - when my wife was 10 her mother flat out told her: "I'm [the mother] the artist in the family. You need to stop drawing immediately, you're no good."

That sounds like something out of a Louis CK sketch... too funny!
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
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You don't need to cut family ties, but you do need to limit the time you spend with them. I don't hang with negative people. They could be friends, family, and coworkers. Family is more difficult because they are blood. Do holidays and one family gathering a year. If they get pissed. Tuff sh*t. Sometimes you need to be selfish with your time.

Life is way too short. You don't need people sucking the air out of your life. You want to be negative. Hang out with negative people. If you want a great life, then hang out with people who are going to motivate and encourage you to excel.
 
Mar 15, 2003
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This will not end well.

Eh, it is what it is. As far as the wife's perspective her words were "I'm fucking done with her" and referred to my email as "my mom will freak and my dad will see just how much you love me." I mean, she bought champagne to celebrate their leaving!
 

NetWareHead

THAT guy
Aug 10, 2002
5,854
154
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Your allusions to incest, "strange uncles" and "uncousinly" behavior would make me drop that portion of the family in a heartbeat. That IMO is far more concerning/threatening than what they think about gays.

How can you relax or even enjoy yourself when you are watching your daughters like hawks. Thats not enjoyable or worthy of taking time off of work for. I'd rather go somewhere that feels like a vacation, not guarding my daughters. Wait until your daughters enter their teen years and begin to blossom into mature women and you will see even more "uncousinly" behavior. Im sorry to say but your wife's side of the family is disgusting.
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,227
153
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Those are fine adult thoughts that your kids will form on their own. Raise them right and they will see things the way they are. Raising them with this bias is the same as raising them with distaste for the icky gays. No different. No less reprehensible.

Glad someone pointed this out.

Programming is still programming. You're not allowing the kids to form their own opinions, but forcing your own and not allowing them to hear contradicting ones.

There are times to remove oneself from family... this doesn't sound like one of them - this sounds like you wanting to stay in an untarnished bubble.

If you can't tolerate different opinions from the people you love, how will you handle them from anyone else?

Your allusions to incest, "strange uncles" and "uncousinly" behavior would make me drop that portion of the family in a heartbeat.

I missed that part! Strange uncles, too many rape stories... unhealthy and too high potential for harm is an EXCELLENT reason to cut ties and RUN!

boys offering them flowers,petting, calling them pretty girls - weird, uncousinly stuff that's eerily close to wooing

Wow... that's what I get for responding before getting to the end. The first part of my message still stands, but get the hell away from these creepazoids. They deserve to know why as you're going out the door, though... there's a slim chance they may actually learn that wooing your cousin is wrong.
 
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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
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You know there are a ton of people on this forum who feel the same as your old grandparents? Good luck op. Hail satan.
 
Mar 15, 2003
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Your allusions to incest, "strange uncles" and "uncousinly" behavior would make me drop that portion of the family in a heartbeat. That IMO is far more concerning/threatening than what they think about gays.

How can you relax or even enjoy yourself when you are watching your daughters like hawks. Thats not enjoyable or worthy of taking time off of work for. I'd rather go somewhere that feels like a vacation, not guarding my daughters. Wait until your daughters enter their teen years and begin to blossom into mature women and you will see even more "uncousinly" behavior. Im sorry to say but your wife's side of the family is disgusting.

You're 100% right. I am never enjoying myself when I'm there, my wife does the mingling and I literally follow my kids around to make sure they don't run off to an out house by her weird 16 year old cousin. It's exhausting when it's two different kids. The thing is no one really talks about things - they're super emotionally constipated and speak in code ("uncle jerry's just...Different and a little weird) so not only is it a guessing game but I had to put two and two together until I flat out asked my wife, and in a household of 3 women 2 have been molested. Frankly, if I were the husband in the family (not my wife's dad, her grand dad) I would have broken some faces, instead he's forgiving of the rapists and judgemental of gays and blacks (not of the direct 'i hate n words' kind, more of the "if black boys listen to the cops they won't get killed." as if belligerence is worthy of a death sentence).

As for my wife's family being disgusting - I should specify that I can, deep down, see what I love in my wife in my FIL. He's a good man but a pussy, and he let's his MIL and her family run her life and dictate his values (his side of the family's from Kentucky and super progressive, have un-pc senses of humor that I dig, and are genuinely kind people who interact with me daily on facebook and helped me learn not to stereotype southern folk). I shouldn't paint broad strokes, and the last time I cut the MIL out his text to me was "I understand why you're upset, but you sometimes just have to put up with things - I have been for almost 30 years"). When he's being homophobic I can really tell he's doing it to conform to his wife's views. He's a good guy deep down, he just is kinda a pussy... I'll let him know that my door's open to him, but I doubt he'll rock the boat and visit solo.
 
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Mar 15, 2003
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If you can't tolerate different opinions from the people you love, how will you handle them from anyone else?

Who said anything about love? I do not love them, I love my wife and my kids. I don't believe in love being a given, you have to earn it in my book - and they have done nothing to earn it from me. Oh, I handle debates very empathetically around my kids all the time and don't shut down differing opinions, I discuss...We're New Yorkers - we like to debate even if we agree! Most of the time it's completely civil with the people I debate with.. But they don't debate, they resort to falling back on bigoted buzz words (adam and eve, not adam and steve), quoting the bible, or "it just aint right!" That's not a discussion, and I'm ok with my daughters seeing me butt heads with that - they're growing wonderfully argumentative and inquisitive in a good way and back down and apologize when they're wrong, which is exactly what I do. Shit, I say "you know, you're perspective's right - I won't waste time bitching" all the time when I'm wrong and am not one to beat a dead horse, but they beat their bigoted point again and again, and then cry and tattle on me when it's obvious that I see through their shit.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,060
10,241
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Guys, the OP mentioned his kids being "toddlers". While kids of various ages surprise adults by catching on to things at ages that some might deem surprisingly early, I don't think the arguments regarding the various manifestations of sexuality are among those topics. If anything, they're likely to reduce any explanation on the topic down to a too-simple soundbite.

At that age I'd be a lot more interested in ensuring that my kids don't learn excuses to hate people or consider themselves superior to them.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,129
1,604
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Cut off all contact with all the rapists and super creepy ones.
Keep in contact with the rest of the family. Maybe they will outgrow their ignorance.
 
Mar 15, 2003
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That sounds like something out of a Louis CK sketch... too funny!

The whole situation is absurd. I think I'm getting into a lot of these spats because they've been crazy all along, but stepped all over us until I started seeing a shrink. Sure she gives me meds which are making me less scared, but she also lets me know when I'm being unreasonable and when sometimes the people around me are toxic. More often than not, you're right - this shit is out of a sitcom.
 

madoka

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2004
4,344
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I like to think there's another forum where slackerinabox's in-laws are posting complaints about their crazy, racist Indian son-in-law troll.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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I'd just sever ties. They won't change ever and the added stress isn't worth it. Let them wallow in their bigotry alone.
 

ctark

Senior member
Sep 6, 2004
726
1
0
Long story short I'm sure many of you noticed I whine a lot about my in laws. In the past I've blamed it on them having red state values, them being old school white (I'm nyc minority), or them being Christian but, now, I'm learning not to stereotype and just think "asshole" is in their blood.

I admit to being overly sensitive at times but the things they say continue to bother me, especially around my very impressionable toddlers. The latest reason I'm annoyed is over an LGBT conversation, from "the thought of two men kissing, with their beards touching makes me sick to my stomach" to the 'trans are freaks and I'll beat them if they hurt mah kin!" Sorta shit, which bugs me because I'm the opposite - my minister's gay (because I refuse to go to a gay bashing church, but my granddad was a minister so I still value spirituality), my best man was gay, and the guys who really made me a more interesting dude were all gay (had a bunch of gay roommates in Brooklyn and they taught me everything from dating, cooking, to how to dress - it sounds stereotypical but they kinda made me a man). So it's not just me standing up for abstract values, but it's very, very personal to me. Heck, my teenage crush on Trent Reznor still makes me wonder.. Ha... As for my wife's perspective, she's moved from defending them to just being embarrassed by them - i think her turning point was when every family member refused to go to a gay cousin's wedding - of course he moved here to NYC and never talks to any of them, and brunches with us occasionally. We're the only family he has left now, which is kinda sad to me (I"m super kind to him and his husband, I separate him from them and he nods his head in agreement whenever I bitch about them).

Anyways, often when I'm around them I get really hurt and end up being the loud mouth liberal, and I just hate being that guy. The problem is that I feel that silence is an endorsement of those values, and I want to make it very clear to my kids that those values are corrupt (and, like dog training, I believe corrections must occur immediately, not hours after with a 'remember that thing your grandad said about men kissing?). Any ways, it makes me feel like a dick, but I can't help it.

So my question is this - is it wrong to just cut them all out? They seem to believe that they all have some sort of God given right to see them whenever Im pissed at them.. Is it going too far? Honestly, I also worry about the socio-economic influence: the majority of them are factory workers or less, and live in trailers or with their aging parents - is it wrong to think "well, we have good relationships with the ambitious family members, Maybe I don't want my kids to ever see how low their Dna can go?" Especially the women- they're universally very wide, very unambitious, and feed their kids pepsi in sippy cups.. "You're a stay at home mom, you have time to read about proper kids nutrition, ignorance is not an excuse!" They use ignorance as an excuse for a lot of things... Never mind that nearly all of the women in that family seems to have at least one rape story, as if incest is just a thing to do in Missouri. There's always that strange uncle they bring up, right now my count is at 3 different "strange uncles," and they never say who so family reunions are fun games of spot the pedo... Seriously, I watch my two girls like hawks when they're around their Missouri cousins, because you never know and they all are kinda weird around the girls who are thinner and more "exotic" looking than the lot of them, so they stand out (boys offering them flowers,petting, calling them pretty girls - weird, uncousinly stuff that's eerily close to wooing). I always feel so strange around them, so what's so wrong with a "fuck it, they don't need to know them."


I pushed my grandparents out of my life and I dont regret it one bit. Anytime someone tells me we should reconcile i shut that shit down quick and go on my merry way.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,820
29,571
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Negative influences are negative influences. Assholes are assholes. Income, social status, religion, political leaning, race, none of these are valid reasons for being a hateful bigot as there is no valid reason for such attitudes.

Tell grandma and grandpa that if they want to spend time with their grandchildren they can leave their hate at the door or not come around at all. It is not the ideal situation but we make due with what we are presented in life. And remember, we can still love someone and hate them at the same time.

nurteredhate, eh? :hmm:

anyway, solid advice.
 
Mar 15, 2003
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I like to think there's another forum where slackerinabox's in-laws are posting complaints about their crazy, racist Indian son-in-law troll.

Hey I admit to having a flair for the dramatic, but I'm not racist (if you're implying that my distaste for my in laws is based on their skin color). Quite the opposite, I've been down with white people since before Seinfeld. The only thing I really know about Indian culture is the names of some tasty dishes... I'll also add that I do come from a racist family which I think is worse than white bigots - white ones have small town ignorance on their side, immigrant bigots should just know better.
 
Mar 15, 2003
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Quick update- and now the MIL has pink eye! We warned her not to visit, that the youngest was asymptomatic but still possibly contagious, she insisted... Heheh.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
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The notion of "but they're family" baffles me. If there's a subset of either side of your families that both of you don't want to be around anymore, then that should be enough reason to not see them again. It's different if your wife still wanted them around and you disagreed, then you'd have to compromise... but if you're both on board then there's no issue.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
Hey I admit to having a flair for the dramatic, but I'm not racist (if you're implying that my distaste for my in laws is based on their skin color). Quite the opposite, I've been down with white people since before Seinfeld. The only thing I really know about Indian culture is the names of some tasty dishes... I'll also add that I do come from a racist family which I think is worse than white bigots - white ones have small town ignorance on their side, immigrant bigots should just know better.

I read the OP a couple of days ago and haven't had a chance to respond so I'll take a couple of minutes here to respond. While I won't call you a racist, it does sound like you have a bit of a superiority complex. You may not intend on coming off that way, but maybe you do come off that way to your inlaws. Just some food for thought.

With that being said, you only have to remember one thing - these are your kids and yours to raise as you see fit. If you and your wife believe the inlaws are bad influences or worse, it is perfectly fine to cut ties IMO. It is your decision to make.

However, let me tell you about something in my life that was similar and how it affects me to this day. My mother didn't get along with my dad's family - mainly my dad's mom, who I'll call MIL from here on out. There was constant friction there. My mother claimed that the MIL tried to tell her how to do everything, how to raise kids, etc. Obviously I was young and shielded from some of that so I can't comment on if it was all true, partially true, or a misconception. Anyway, there was eventually a big family blowup and my parents cut ties. We didn't speak with them for 5 years - until my grandfather was dying of cancer. I was 9 when the "blowup" happened and was 14 when we got back into contact. By that point, my grandfather was seriously ill and was doped up on medication to help him with pain (he was dying of colon cancer). I regret that I never really got to talk to him about his life and his experiences - he fought in WWII under George Patton. I wish, between the ages of 9 and 14 when I became more aware of the world and our history, that I could've asked him questions and talked to him more.

I don't know if my parents were right or wrong. But I will tell you this - life is short and your kids have the right to know their grandparents. If there are "creepier" members of the family who you suspect of crimes, you have every right to keep your kids away from them - it is your duty. But I think your kids will miss out if they don't know their grandparents, their history, etc.
 
Mar 15, 2003
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I read the OP a couple of days ago and haven't had a chance to respond so I'll take a couple of minutes here to respond. While I won't call you a racist, it does sound like you have a bit of a superiority complex. You may not intend on coming off that way, but maybe you do come off that way to your inlaws. Just some food for thought.

I'm particularly pissed off so I'm being pretty condescending about them throughout these posts. My normal interactions with them are pleasant if not quiet. I do get a little elitist when we debate evolution or climate change: I'm a snobby arguer but I'm not a racist/hateful one. Maybe I mansplain sometimes, but it's not sexist she dumb.


I don't know if my parents were right or wrong. But I will tell you this - life is short and your kids have the right to know their grandparents. If there are "creepier" members of the family who you suspect of crimes, you have every right to keep your kids away from them - it is your duty. But I think your kids will miss out if they don't know their grandparents, their history, etc.

I hear this so I won't be a nazi about this. If in 6 months her tone is different visitation is back on, if not it's limited to major Holidays. I don't intend on breaking up my kids relationship with her, but I do whine about her around them - they should know why she rubs me the wrong way.
 
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