CWT - PSH Based Disturbing Trend ?

[Mr Fox]

With ChanellWell Tech being the Dominant High Margin PSU OEM they were once the darlings of the PSU review Sites at that time they were a relatively unknown OEM that started in the High margin PSU's with an excellent reputation.

This Forum has always had high regard for their products, regardless of the branding.
the platform/design that is most popular in this mid-range is the CWT-PSH Platform.

Within the last month, Anandtech, and HardOCP Have Both Posted Negative reviews about these PSU's within Days of each other.

10/16/2008

HardOCP's Paul Johnson gave the Xigmatek NRP-MC851 850w CWT-PSH-850 Based unit a FAIL ! He actually tested two units, and both Failed.

http://www.hardocp.com/article...U2MCwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0

10/30/2008

Anand's Christoph Katzer Gave the Corsair TX750W CWT-PSH-750 Based unit a Less than Glowing review...

http://www.anandtech.com/casec...howdoc.aspx?i=3445&p=1


This by itself concerned me based upon the reviews because Review Samples are usually "Cherry Picked" before going to review sites.

Don't get me wrong either, I understand that there is a certain amount of defectives in a given population. And every OEM makes a certain amount of defectives.


What has concerned me is that the nature of the Noise, and ripple in extreme cases it would lead to premature component failure.

Typically for flexibility in Manufacturing there is a Base BOM that is tweaked appropriately to build a wide range of PSU's by simply adjusting the components in the BOM.

There are three grades of components generally available in the common items.. resistors, transistors , etc...


I have Recently seen a rash of This kind of Issue in a few Forums.

Hi folks,

I think my (XXXXXX) power supply is bad and is damaging the rest of my new PC?s components. I recently RMA?d the CPU and hard drive because they failed during tests. I received replacements from Newegg; however, a short time later BOTH hard drives went bad (one of the originals AND the replacement). That's THREE hard drives within a few weeks. Now I believe that the power supply fried the hard drives (and the original CPU?). Any chance that the problem might be the Asus motherboard instead? I personally have never heard of a motherboard causing damage to hard drives, but I have heard of PSU?s doing things like this. Has anyone else had an issue like this before? It?s a first for me.

Here?s the configuration (all ordered a few weeks ago from Newegg):

* CPU = Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
* Mobo = ASUS P5Q-E LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
* RAM = 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM
* Graphics = ASUS EAH4870/HTDI/1G Radeon HD 4870
* Hard Drives = 2 x SAMSUNG Spinpoint F1 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drives
* PSU = (XXXXXXXX) Power Supply
* OS = Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit


Any advice would be much appreciated.

This kind of totally bad kind of PSU is coming out of this population of PSU's, and this would indicate that "Quality Drift" is contributing to these "Poor Quality samples"
One of the reasons that I say this is the "MFG Line is in Shenzhen PRC"

I am not attacking any single brand of PSU, that is why I have Edited the Names to protect the innocent..
But i am asking the bigger question.... are you seeing the same general Drift ?

 

[RallyMaster]

I do believe CWT manufactured those terrible Antec SmartPower 2.0 and TruePower II's that always liked to fail or exhibit signs of failure 8-9 months into use. I think CWT's been having QC issues for a while, not just now.

Ever since my SmartPower 2.0 500W decided to start randomly rebooting all the time, I've switched to all Seasonic-manufactured PSUs (Antec Earthwatts 380, Corsair HX520 and VX450) to avoid the issues.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Mr Fox
This by itself concerned me based upon the reviews because Review Samples are usually "Cherry Picked" before going to review sites.

This may be the case for some, but some brands just send off retail production units for reviewers.

I think there are two "problems" associated with these two lackluster reviews.

The first "problem" is that these seem to be at the top end of PSH- outputs, meaning it could be pushing the platform design.

The second "problem" is that CWT will build whatever they are requested to build. For instance when Antec wanted to cost-cut their designs, CWT responded with Fujyyu capacitors. :Q Perhaps Xigmatek requested CWT to seriously cost-cut? Maybe the same thing with Corsair? Their well regarded and reviewed units are usually their other models, not their 750W. I've seen the 750W consistently be the cheapest on the market - how good of a unit can they offer for that price?

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: Mr Fox
This by itself concerned me based upon the reviews because Review Samples are usually "Cherry Picked" before going to review sites.

This may be the case for some, but some brands just send off retail production units for reviewers.

I think there are two "problems" associated with these two lackluster reviews.

The first "problem" is that these seem to be at the top end of PSH- outputs, meaning it could be pushing the platform design.

The second "problem" is that CWT will build whatever they are requested to build. For instance when Antec wanted to cost-cut their designs, CWT responded with Fujyyu capacitors. :Q Perhaps Xigmatek requested CWT to seriously cost-cut? Maybe the same thing with Corsair? Their well regarded and reviewed units are usually their other models, not their 750W. I've seen the 750W consistently be the cheapest on the market - how good of a unit can they offer for that price?

I think that you are right on the money here also, but my concern is that in Katzer's
review the Ripple at 50% load was quite high, and that loading would be very characteristic of most average Computers the Loads are 300-350 watts. Unless they are running an x2 Vid card... and that would be a very bad user experience..




What i posted above, I have seen on a number of CWT-PSH units with various branding. but the common thread is the PSU platform,
I was hoping that we would get some feedback from the staff, and Jon and membership obviously. Paul Johnson is around sometimes also..

CWT-has a decent rep, but I'm beginning to believe that here are a number of dynamics beyond the obvious that may explain this better.

This thread could either die on the vine, or get real interesting in a hurry..

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: Mr Fox


I think that you are right on the money here also, but my concern is that in Katzer's
review the Ripple at 50% load was quite high,

In Katzer's review the 12V ripple at 50% load was 16mV.....which is EXTREMELY low...but his ripple readings are always extremely low...so much so that I don't trust them.

I think it has been pretty much established that 800 and beyond is stretching the PSH too far....also the PSH has fairly high ripple but still within spec.

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1

Originally posted by: Mr Fox


I think that you are right on the money here also, but my concern is that in Katzer's
review the Ripple at 50% load was quite high,

In Katzer's review the 12V ripple at 50% load was 16mV.....which is EXTREMELY low...but his ripple readings are always extremely low...so much so that I don't trust them.

I think it has been pretty much established that 800 and beyond is stretching the PSH too far....also the PSH has fairly high ripple but still within spec.

OOPS... I miss stated that.......... it was the +3.3v, and +5.0 v that dropped out...almost out of spec... with a worse sample this probably would be an issue with toasting peripherals. Johnson's review showed the same in essence,

I was in the middle of multi-tasking when I wrote that... between, cooking dinner, and assembling the new toy, I was distracted for sure..

that above instance was less than 30 days old. The owner went thru, and proved that he wiring in the house was right, and that the input voltages were right as well...

This PSU was taking hardware out like I have never seen...

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: RallyMaster
I do believe CWT manufactured those terrible Antec SmartPower 2.0 and TruePower II's

Was that CWT? I thought it was Topower?

 

[MrOblivious]

The SmartPower and TruePower's that suffered from the Fuhjyyu sudden death syndrome were CWT's.

As for CWT in general, I was kicking that issue around after both Xigmatek reviews of both units I received the PSH850 based and the PUC. A little over a year ago I had the Koolance 1200w which was a PSH850 that they had running at 1200w, and at 1200w it was out of specification noisy but through 850w it was in specification and was otherwise good while run in its original design limits. Fast forward to this year and CWT has gone from having Antec and Xclio as almost its sole retail presence in the US to well just about everyone. Its gotten to the point that when I get new units sent I'll ask the reps for them if they are YACWTPSH ahead of time. So certainly CWT's retail presence has grown as has their volume. Now whether that has resulted in slipping QC I don't know, it could just as easily be the same as before but there simply are more detailed eyes looking at them with more of these units being in the retail space than hidden in the OEM space.

Overall though, the PSH design (and PUC) from the get go has been noisy on the 12v rail. It is just a characteristic of that platform, but most of the time it is in specification.

 

[VirtualLarry]

So does this mean that Corsair TX750 units arent good? I was planning to pick up two of them.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
So does this mean that Corsair TX750 units arent good?

Define "good."

If by "good" you mean "probably won't blow up" then yes they're probably good.

If by "good" you mean "puts out what it claims on the label" then yes they're probably good.

If by "good" you mean "cleaner output than an Antec Signature" then they're probably not good.

 

[RallyMaster]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
So does this mean that Corsair TX750 units arent good?

Define "good."

If by "good" you mean "probably won't blow up" then yes they're probably good.

If by "good" you mean "puts out what it claims on the label" then yes they're probably good.

If by "good" you mean "cleaner output than an Antec Signature" then they're probably not good.

IMO the CWT based units won't be as good quality as the Seasonic based units. I think the better plan of attack would be to acquire a 700W Seasonic M12.

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: RallyMaster


IMO the CWT based units won't be as good quality as the Seasonic based units. I think the better plan of attack would be to acquire a 700W Seasonic M12.

Or the 750W PC Power and Cooling Silencer

As for Seasonic better than CWT, most of the reviews I have read praise the VX550 as being slightly superior to the HX520. I am pretty sure some of the reviewers when asked were hesitant to recommend either the Corsair TX750 or the PC P&C Silencer over the other, each has some stronger points than the other....one being that the Corsair TX750 is usually cheaper.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: RallyMaster

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
So does this mean that Corsair TX750 units arent good?

Define "good."

If by "good" you mean "probably won't blow up" then yes they're probably good.

If by "good" you mean "puts out what it claims on the label" then yes they're probably good.

If by "good" you mean "cleaner output than an Antec Signature" then they're probably not good.

IMO the CWT based units won't be as good quality as the Seasonic based units. I think the better plan of attack would be to acquire a 700W Seasonic M12.

I just picked up a Corsair 650TX so if I don't post on here any more, you'll know how good CWT quality is

 

[Quiksilver]

Is CWT slipping? no, because their platforms work. What tends to slip are the components the manufacture decides to use on said platform.

 

[dangman4ever]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

I just picked up a Corsair 650TX so if I don't post on here any more, you'll know how good CWT quality is

650 TX is Seasonic made though.....

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: dangman4ever

Originally posted by: zerocool84

I just picked up a Corsair 650TX so if I don't post on here any more, you'll know how good CWT quality is

650 TX is Seasonic made though.....

Ahh you are right. The 750 is made by CWT and I assumed the 650 was.

 

[dangman4ever]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Ahh you are right. The 750 is made by CWT and I assumed the 650 was.

Yeah I made the same mistake until I was corrected by Redbeard, Corsair's PSU Rep...

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: dangman4ever

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Ahh you are right. The 750 is made by CWT and I assumed the 650 was.

Yeah I made the same mistake until I was corrected by Redbeard, Corsair's PSU Rep...

Then I guess I have a quality PSU then.

 

[imported_Barbarossa]

Hi guys, Redbeard from Corsair here. I chose this name back in the day because Redbeard was already taken. (For those who care - Barbarossa means Redbeard in Italian...from what I remember...)

As for the TX750W, we are shipping record numbers of these units each month and our return rate is extremely low. While it's true that it's slightly louder than our TX650, the component changes we make (higher-end capacitors in both brand and rating, some other changes) has given us the confidence to provide a 5 year warranty.

If you have any questions at all about the 750W TX unit, please feel free to email me, powerguy@corsairmemory.com

For what its worth, I have a TX750 in one of my personal systems and it's been rock solid running SLI GTX280s, and before that 9800GX2s.