Cyberpunk 2077 finally revealed

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Based on my Witcher 3 experience, Cyberpunk 2077 might be a day 1 buy for me. I almost never buy full priced games but I feel CDPR has earned my support.

same. Witcher 3 was the only pre-purchase than I made in the last ~5 years, and I figure that Cyberpunk will be the next one.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Until we get a new console generation, running on current hardware is probably a safe bet.

I’m not certain we will. There will probably just end up being continuous iterations of the current ecosystem with increased performance and features each time. That’s what Microsoft seems to want to do.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
I’m not certain we will. There will probably just end up being continuous iterations of the current ecosystem with increased performance and features each time. That’s what Microsoft seems to want to do.

I don't know. I think that is going to quickly become unsustainable. The Xbox One was released in 2013. So, it is already 5 year old hardware (and it was not really the best hardware at the time of release). How do they manage when the new games are all but unplayable on that original hardware? It is going to be a marketing nightmare. We are probably only a generation away from that already. No, at some point it is just easier to come out with a whole new console and tell owners of the old hardware to upgrade or miss out.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
I’m not certain we will. There will probably just end up being continuous iterations of the current ecosystem with increased performance and features each time. That’s what Microsoft seems to want to do.

Well, reading between the lines from their annoucement
1) They would like to end ownership and get you on an endless subscription model where give you the minimum quality needed not to cancel. Let call this the 'cable tv' model
2) They might put out 2 version of a new console. One that is 1080p/30 and another that can handle 4k/30 or 1080p/120(or whatever your tv actually supports) Very similar to how it is now. Just trying to capture people who want a premium experience vs those that want lowest possible initial cost.

Either way that's 2020ish from what I've heard so probably not relevant to this game.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,196
197
106
I've just read about that, too.

I'm absolutely struggling right now, in trying to understand their decision. I absolutely love the FPS genre, in general. However, not all types of games "fit", given specific conditions and context. If we consider that 'normal' gameplay (and combat) in Cyberpunk will remain in FPS, but cut-scenes will (supposedly) switch to Third Person, and it all happens seamlessly in-engine... it should mean that there's an actually-completed model of both male and female characters we'll have the choice to play as (indeed, there's apparently NO "character creator" per se; it's two fixed characters and that's it). So... then why not just giving the OPTION to stay Third Person or in FPS mode; Bethesda games-style, for example? Why 'forcing' the FPS view outside of cut-scenes? Additionally, not going with Third Person MIGHT have been related to complexity of animating the character (but that would be a very poor excuse after seeing what they've done with animations with both Witcher 2 and 3, especially 3 of course). And maybe it had something to do with a lot of technical reasons too, including gameplay-related mechanics.

Yeah, and more on that (gameplay mechanics), to think about perhaps; the thing is, it's not Witcher. It's not Fantasy. In Cyberpunk you don't cast spells and don't throw magic fire balls at people. In Third Person it's usually great to see that stuff AND seeing your character doing it as well, but let's be real here... a FPS Witcher would definitely not work. In Witcher we NEED to see our character in Third Person to better judge distances, physical approach, awareness of environment and surrounding hazards or obstacles for proper combat (ironically enough, the combat in Witcher 3, while being the best of the series, is not exactly what I'd call something amazing per se... but that's probably just very subjective). However, I KNOW... I know people... there has been (good and/or "working") examples in gaming of FPSes "with spells" and fantasy (Bioshock, Dark Messiah, Hexen and a couple of others), as well as ones with Third Person and sci-fi (Mass Effect, for instance).

Now, overall, I'm trying to understand here. There's dozens of gameplay concepts that collide in my mind right now each trying to prove or disprove the viability of going FPS in a game like Cyberpunk; it's just a total mess to think about. I DO see some good reasons, but I'm also annoyingly irritated at the idea that I wouldn't be able to see my character animate as I play. I don't exactly just want to play in 'tank mode' in a beautifully-rendered Cyberpunk city as I explore.

1) Ok, let's stop a moment and let's think: what WOULD be the main reason(s) as to why I'd want to play in Third Person for Cyberpunk? I don't speak for everyone, but I'll speak for myself: Character Customizations, Animations. And the main one (for me), namely IMMERSION. Because... oh, well because it's a ROLE-Playing-Game. Maybe it has something to do with that, who knows. Maybe I'm just imagining things. It's exactly like trying to imagine myself playing The Witcher 3 in FPS mode, and trying to immerse myself in any one of those villages I come across. Would that work? Errrr.... hummm... maaaaaybe? On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being total immersion enough that a sneezing NPC would give me a jump scare) I would probably go with something like a 4 or 5. But with Cyberpunk (just like it was the case in Witcher 3) I would definitely imagine seeing my character in 3rd person view for the aesthetics, especially of course if the game is going to push hardware to upper limits whenever it comes out.

2) However, on the other hand, I'm trying to think of any reason(s) as to why I would want to STAY in First Person view all the time (well, excluding cut-scenes). I actually cannot think of any viable reason, to be honest. I mean... c'mon. It's supposed to be an RPG, not a DOOM-esque shooter. I DO love me some great FPS shooters, obviously. But "FPS RPGs" aren't exactly the ones I like the most, let's just say. But, with this said, even though it's supposed to be "an RPG" game... what if... WHAT IF... Cyberpunk 2077 really turns out to be a 'typical shooter' in combat moments? I mean SURE, obviously, there's going to be quests, NPCs and a campaign, etc. But really yeah, let's stop here and imagine what if it was the case? That Cyberpunk's combat wouldn't be that different than say... Mass Effect Andromeda's? Now, in THAT hypothetical case, sure... JUST going with FPS mode would be fine (because in this example the irony is that Andromeda did NOT "need" to be in Third Person for combat, it's NOT 'RPG-heavy' to the extent that a FPS mode in that game would not have worked; quite on the contrary).

In the end, however, I think it all depends on the execution. Yeah, FPS view remains FPS regardless of how you "execute it". But if the game's RPG elements are not very complex, or 'heavy' and if the game really does turn out to be more 'arcade'ish' in its approach on combat then I suppose - ultimately - that we wouldn't have needed Third Person for it, after all.

At the moment I more disappointed by the decision to apparently "force" FPS. But the BIG problem is not that there IS first-person-view, but that it is not an OPTION. If a dinosaur of an engine like GameBryo (oh, excuse me I mean... "Creation Engine") and a developer like Bethesda could give me the option to play in both FPS or 3rd Person since Morrowind (even if this example is quite archaic by today's standards), then why is a developer like CDPR - whom are none others than the ones who gave us one of the greatest video game ever made - can't do it for Cyberpunk? If it's truly a decision that has NOTHING to do with "engine limitations" or complexity in animating characters or making 3D models or costumes, and it was purely decided to go with FPS as the main point of view "Just Because We Preferred It Like That" then DO count me extremely disappointed in them. If, however, there really were a lot of technicalities that most of us wouldn't understand behind their decision then ok... I can live with that; and if the gameplay does happen to be fun anyway then sure, I'll buy it.

But I have actually changed my mind on one thing. Now that it's not Third Person I'll have to wait for a lot of gameplay videos to make up my mind. I'll have to see the combat plenty of times to make sure that going with FPS in the end really did make sense. However, that means that I'll probably not buy it on Day One anymore, and might have to wait for it to be on sale at some point. This is a VERY unexpected turn of events for me concerning this game. It comes out of the blue (for me, anyway; if it was hinted at before that Cyberpunk would be a FPS game then I just missed that "information" whenever it came out). This is akin to Nintendo announcing a new Zelda game that would be exclusively played in FPS, everyone would go "WTF!?", well that's how I feel like right now about this. I just can't understand why, but the gameplay itself might 'reveal' more about it.
 
Last edited:

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,803
581
126
Holy wall of text. I just prefer to see my character in RPGs, and when there's melee combat 3rd person is always better and more fluid.
 

ArenCordial

Senior member
Sep 18, 2012
214
15
81
First person will serve the game well. From the short descriptions it reminds me of the original Deus Ex. Lots of ways to approach a problem depending on your skills/perks. If that is the goal I'm doubly excited as Deus Ex (the original) is still one of my favorite games.

@Zenoth I wouldn't be surprised if 3rd person is added at some point down the line, as this is CDPR and if the demand is big enough I could easily see them adding it. Honestly I think its simply that third person shooters can all to easily fall into becoming a cover shooter, while the emphasis of CP2077 seems to be on using your powers.
 
Reactions: OCNewbie

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,196
197
106
Yeah it could work, I know. It depends on implementation / execution. If it plays a bit like Bioshock I wouldn't have a problem with it. But I do feel that the immersion level for role-playing will have to take a hit. If I'm wrong on both counts, and the FPS play is awesome (and makes sense after all) and if the game, environments, NPCs and everything else is so well crafted that immersion will still be there then great! I'll be all for that. Now I just need to see a lot of gameplay.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Holy wall of text. I just prefer to see my character in RPGs, and when there's melee combat 3rd person is always better and more fluid.

This. I had always assumed this would be a CDPR game. Only being in first person drops my interest significantly. I really don't like 1st person in nearly all situations.
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,803
581
126
OTOH, I just realized so much of the game is indoors and FPP is mostly better for that.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,196
197
106
I'm reading now that there's apparently a 15 minutes-or-so playable demo for journalists / reviewers / whatever. I've read the one from PC Gamer. The complete irony is that they are allowed to describe everything they've seen and played from that demo (so, no "NDA" going on about it). Not only that, there seems to have been no major flaws or bugs reported and the guys who played it seem to have a generally positive impression (so far).

But the public is... not seeing that? Why? I don't get it. If it looks good, if it plays well, if there's no major bugs and there's no NDA... What. Is. The. Damn. Point in showing it "behind closed doors" so to speak. Anyway man... I think I need to stop thinking about this game simply until it just comes out and I see streams of it on Twitch. Looks like an event like E3 is not enough to see gameplay for upcoming games anymore. We're apparently supposed to be content with CGI trailers and Logo Reveals.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I don't know. I think that is going to quickly become unsustainable. The Xbox One was released in 2013. So, it is already 5 year old hardware (and it was not really the best hardware at the time of release). How do they manage when the new games are all but unplayable on that original hardware? It is going to be a marketing nightmare. We are probably only a generation away from that already. No, at some point it is just easier to come out with a whole new console and tell owners of the old hardware to upgrade or miss out.

That's how they force you to upgrade. Oh, new game won't be fun at 10fps? We have just the thing...the new console has more power for your titles. It's going to probably work something like Phones. Your old phone still runs the same stuff up to a point. See Microsoft already announced this plan, to not kill your library when you buy a new console. No more backwards compatibility necessary, every Xbox going forward can play the entire library of Xbox titles. Eventually they EOL the old model and say it no longer supports the new titles. If they don't run, tough luck...no support. It's the phone model, but yes as mentioned they are going to try out a streaming model soon like PS Now which sucks. In fact I think all game streaming sucks unless it's local network with 1000-BaseT
 
Last edited:

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I'm reading now that there's apparently a 15 minutes-or-so playable demo for journalists / reviewers / whatever. I've read the one from PC Gamer. The complete irony is that they are allowed to describe everything they've seen and played from that demo (so, no "NDA" going on about it). Not only that, there seems to have been no major flaws or bugs reported and the guys who played it seem to have a generally positive impression (so far).

But the public is... not seeing that? Why? I don't get it. If it looks good, if it plays well, if there's no major bugs and there's no NDA... What. Is. The. Damn. Point in showing it "behind closed doors" so to speak. Anyway man... I think I need to stop thinking about this game simply until it just comes out and I see streams of it on Twitch. Looks like an event like E3 is not enough to see gameplay for upcoming games anymore. We're apparently supposed to be content with CGI trailers and Logo Reveals.

Probably because there would be lines 5 hours long just to play 10minutes.

Also I think First Person for anything gun related is 1000% better than third person.
 
Reactions: Stringjam

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
I've just read about that, too.

I'm absolutely struggling right now, in trying to understand their decision. I absolutely love the FPS genre, in general. However, not all types of games "fit", given specific conditions and context. If we consider that 'normal' gameplay (and combat) in Cyberpunk will remain in FPS, but cut-scenes will (supposedly) switch to Third Person, and it all happens seamlessly in-engine... it should mean that there's an actually-completed model of both male and female characters we'll have the choice to play as (indeed, there's apparently NO "character creator" per se; it's two fixed characters and that's it). So... then why not just giving the OPTION to stay Third Person or in FPS mode; Bethesda games-style, for example? Why 'forcing' the FPS view outside of cut-scenes? Additionally, not going with Third Person MIGHT have been related to complexity of animating the character (but that would be a very poor excuse after seeing what they've done with animations with both Witcher 2 and 3, especially 3 of course). And maybe it had something to do with a lot of technical reasons too, including gameplay-related mechanics.

Yeah, and more on that (gameplay mechanics), to think about perhaps; the thing is, it's not Witcher. It's not Fantasy. In Cyberpunk you don't cast spells and don't throw magic fire balls at people. In Third Person it's usually great to see that stuff AND seeing your character doing it as well, but let's be real here... a FPS Witcher would definitely not work. In Witcher we NEED to see our character in Third Person to better judge distances, physical approach, awareness of environment and surrounding hazards or obstacles for proper combat (ironically enough, the combat in Witcher 3, while being the best of the series, is not exactly what I'd call something amazing per se... but that's probably just very subjective). However, I KNOW... I know people... there has been (good and/or "working") examples in gaming of FPSes "with spells" and fantasy (Bioshock, Dark Messiah, Hexen and a couple of others), as well as ones with Third Person and sci-fi (Mass Effect, for instance).

Now, overall, I'm trying to understand here. There's dozens of gameplay concepts that collide in my mind right now each trying to prove or disprove the viability of going FPS in a game like Cyberpunk; it's just a total mess to think about. I DO see some good reasons, but I'm also annoyingly irritated at the idea that I wouldn't be able to see my character animate as I play. I don't exactly just want to play in 'tank mode' in a beautifully-rendered Cyberpunk city as I explore.

1) Ok, let's stop a moment and let's think: what WOULD be the main reason(s) as to why I'd want to play in Third Person for Cyberpunk? I don't speak for everyone, but I'll speak for myself: Character Customizations, Animations. And the main one (for me), namely IMMERSION. Because... oh, well because it's a ROLE-Playing-Game. Maybe it has something to do with that, who knows. Maybe I'm just imagining things. It's exactly like trying to imagine myself playing The Witcher 3 in FPS mode, and trying to immerse myself in any one of those villages I come across. Would that work? Errrr.... hummm... maaaaaybe? On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being total immersion enough that a sneezing NPC would give me a jump scare) I would probably go with something like a 4 or 5. But with Cyberpunk (just like it was the case in Witcher 3) I would definitely imagine seeing my character in 3rd person view for the aesthetics, especially of course if the game is going to push hardware to upper limits whenever it comes out.

2) However, on the other hand, I'm trying to think of any reason(s) as to why I would want to STAY in First Person view all the time (well, excluding cut-scenes). I actually cannot think of any viable reason, to be honest. I mean... c'mon. It's supposed to be an RPG, not a DOOM-esque shooter. I DO love me some great FPS shooters, obviously. But "FPS RPGs" aren't exactly the ones I like the most, let's just say. But, with this said, even though it's supposed to be "an RPG" game... what if... WHAT IF... Cyberpunk 2077 really turns out to be a 'typical shooter' in combat moments? I mean SURE, obviously, there's going to be quests, NPCs and a campaign, etc. But really yeah, let's stop here and imagine what if it was the case? That Cyberpunk's combat wouldn't be that different than say... Mass Effect Andromeda's? Now, in THAT hypothetical case, sure... JUST going with FPS mode would be fine (because in this example the irony is that Andromeda did NOT "need" to be in Third Person for combat, it's NOT 'RPG-heavy' to the extent that a FPS mode in that game would not have worked; quite on the contrary).

In the end, however, I think it all depends on the execution. Yeah, FPS view remains FPS regardless of how you "execute it". But if the game's RPG elements are not very complex, or 'heavy' and if the game really does turn out to be more 'arcade'ish' in its approach on combat then I suppose - ultimately - that we wouldn't have needed Third Person for it, after all.

At the moment I more disappointed by the decision to apparently "force" FPS. But the BIG problem is not that there IS first-person-view, but that it is not an OPTION. If a dinosaur of an engine like GameBryo (oh, excuse me I mean... "Creation Engine") and a developer like Bethesda could give me the option to play in both FPS or 3rd Person since Morrowind (even if this example is quite archaic by today's standards), then why is a developer like CDPR - whom are none others than the ones who gave us one of the greatest video game ever made - can't do it for Cyberpunk? If it's truly a decision that has NOTHING to do with "engine limitations" or complexity in animating characters or making 3D models or costumes, and it was purely decided to go with FPS as the main point of view "Just Because We Preferred It Like That" then DO count me extremely disappointed in them. If, however, there really were a lot of technicalities that most of us wouldn't understand behind their decision then ok... I can live with that; and if the gameplay does happen to be fun anyway then sure, I'll buy it.

But I have actually changed my mind on one thing. Now that it's not Third Person I'll have to wait for a lot of gameplay videos to make up my mind. I'll have to see the combat plenty of times to make sure that going with FPS in the end really did make sense. However, that means that I'll probably not buy it on Day One anymore, and might have to wait for it to be on sale at some point. This is a VERY unexpected turn of events for me concerning this game. It comes out of the blue (for me, anyway; if it was hinted at before that Cyberpunk would be a FPS game then I just missed that "information" whenever it came out). This is akin to Nintendo announcing a new Zelda game that would be exclusively played in FPS, everyone would go "WTF!?", well that's how I feel like right now about this. I just can't understand why, but the gameplay itself might 'reveal' more about it.


I always enjoy your objective take, Zenoth. Probably because I'm old, and I have no aversion to reading.

My take, albeit more brief.

Shooting guns at people and killing them is inherently visceral. It's not casting spells, rolling into a ball (ala Witcher) or such. It's looking straight down the barrel of a weapon, and the best way to convey that in the most intense way possible is first-person. Your eyeballs - your character eyeballs - staring down the barrel of a gun.

Can it work in an RPG? Absolutely, if executed properly. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. proves it. In first person, you can't get away from yourself...you can't zoom out and peek around all the corners to see where your enemies are. Gamers in general like to play-off FPS as a "dumb" gameplay mechanic. I think it's just the opposite. You don't get the comfort of being omni-present and viewing everything going around you. You don't get the isometric diapers of seeing your enemies as a whole, instead of just that guy who jumped around the corner and is shooting bullets at your head.

This game was made for FPS.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Probably because there would be lines 5 hours long just to play 10minutes.

Also I think First Person for anything gun related is 1000% better than third person.

Well, Mass Effect didn't really suffer from being 3rd person/OTS.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Sure it did. Every 3rd person shooter is worse than it would have been to play in first person.

I don't understand that statement--basically, no way to know what 1st person Mass Effect would be like to compare--but I already do know that Bethesda games are far superior in 3rd person than when played 1st person!

Also, I do know that the video game industry in general went down hill when that stupid "Doom" game was unleashed upon the world. Never understood that appeal of that.

By the way, Borderlands is one of my favorite games anywhere. I didn't say this had to make sense.
 
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