Cyberpunk 2077

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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I think it's the anti-hype reaction from such people that are angry with it. The AI is definitely not great, but there is nothing wrong with the story, as far as I have gotten so far. Maybe if people also expected it to be the greatest story ever in the history of games, then I guess such people will be disappointed.

I think people, knowing how they react to games, basically all the time...just want to be angry. We don't have a history of what it's like to spend a year of development on a major game during a pandemic. We just don't. And no fans don't seem to care that this pandemic thing is actually happening outside of their own experience of it.

This is a game that has been in the works for years. Companies release games almost yearly (Ubisoft) with better AI
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,120
5,998
136
This is a game that has been in the works for years. Companies release games almost yearly (Ubisoft) with better AI

Yeah the AI looks horrendous in streams I have seen of this game. I could forgive the PC performance if it looked like it was a complete game but everything I see of it screams this game should have been shelved until 2021. The console performance is absolutely unforgiveable though. I'll probably wait until this is in the $20 bargain bin and buy it for PS5 then when hopefully it will be a relatively complete game.
 
Reactions: cmdrdredd

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Who cares if they posted it a year ago?

that was the entire premise of my argument from the beginning, and why I was only trying to explain (a big part of) why the anger today exists.

All I'm saying by this is that a lot of the fervor from the people following this game for 10 years now, only talking about hardware/performance...is that expectations actually were set a year ago. They just were, because that's when the first specs were released, and "brains were set" to a data point, for the last year.

I made that...pretty clear, and the point being, you have to put yourself in 1 year-ago shoes, which is the one simple request that I make, to then "think" about what one year-ago-you would think about that information, presented at that time, and how you would analyze it.

I care about it, because that is the actual argument, and it is important, for the point that I'm making.

When you say that, essentially, 1 year ago, that you can play a AAAA game, 1 year from now, on 2 years-old mid-tier card at REFERNCE (Again: meaning--1080ti, which is ABOVE that set reference (the 1060) by THREE TIERS, is going to be pumping honest SERIOUS frames at ABOVE reference settings..so certainly, low 4k to 4k (1 year ago thinking, mind you!)...at whatever it takes to get frames)

...that is literally what that means. by posting such hardware recs, at such time and place in the universe, of the world of late 2019...and which is why, today, in the reality of the actual game...those recommendations are just poor, and people are just even MORE angry about it.

See, we are arguing the same thing, you and I. I just made one point about why it sucks, and you made another, lol. I think, right? what's going on here, hahha
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
This is a game that has been in the works for years. Companies release games almost yearly (Ubisoft) with better AI

Ubisoft has 10x the staff (maybe that is being too conservative?), at 100x the budget, and, until this year, no one, anyone, all of them...any data about a game release in a pandemic (AC Vikingthingy being the only game to compare...at least in ONE of those data points, to this CDPR game).

I mean, you're not wrong, but there is also a difference in years of experience, literal labor-time, and resources, that these folks simply don't have compared to those people. Their studio is in fricking Poland,
where they have been going through a ~4 year "trying out" of literal fascism,
and they fricking ninja this content, anyway, better than 98% of development companies around the world, with far, far, far less advantageous circumstances, so....yeah, these guys I'm not worried about. Well, not yet anyway, lol.

They get work done. This is a stubbed toe on your bed post in the morning, that you shrug off because you had a pisser of a night and well, the decisions you make right now, over the next several months, are going to define these folks. For sure. No doubt about that.

The world has gone through utter piss-hell SHIT this year (yeah, I know what forum I'm in), and if anything else, people can learn to deal with SHIT for the first time in their privileged lives...for just a little more time. It gets better. Let people just work and figure things out.

just chill, everyone. Let people work, FFS.

 
Reactions: VirtualLarry

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Ubisoft has 10x the staff (maybe that is being too conservative?), at 100x the budget, and, until this year, no one, anyone, all of them...any data about a game release in a pandemic (AC Vikingthingy being the only game to compare...at least in ONE of those data points, to this CDPR game).

I mean, you're not wrong, but there is also a difference in years of experience, literal labor-time, and resources, that these folks simply don't have compared to those people. Their studio is in fricking Poland,
where they have been going through a ~4 year "trying out" of literal fascism,
and they fricking ninja this content, anyway, better than 98% of development companies around the world, with far, far, far less advantageous circumstances, so....yeah, these guys I'm not worried about. Well, not yet anyway, lol.

They get work done. This is a stubbed toe on your bed post in the morning, that you shrug off because you had a pisser of a night and well, the decisions you make right now, over the next several months, are going to define these folks. For sure. No doubt about that.

The world has gone through utter piss-hell SHIT this year (yeah, I know what forum I'm in), and if anything else, people can learn to deal with SHIT for the first time in their privileged lives...for just a little more time. It gets better. Let people just work and figure things out.

just chill, everyone. Let people work, FFS.


No free passes sorry. They screwed up and lost a billion dollars(that doesn’t sound like a studio with no money) and now have lost favor with a lot of people. I don’t give free passes because “omg this year sucks” you don’t make a game in 8 months, it was announced 8 years ago. If you can’t get it right in 7 years you don’t deserve my money.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
No free passes sorry. They screwed up and lost a billion dollars(that doesn’t sound like a studio with no money) and now have lost favor with a lot of people. I don’t give free passes because “omg this year sucks” you don’t make a game in 8 months, it was announced 8 years ago. If you can’t get it right in 7 years you don’t deserve my money.

OK.

So what did they get wrong?
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
OK.

So what did they get wrong?

Performance for one and I don’t care if people with new $800 GPUs can run it on high as it was announced 7 years before we knew about a rtx3080, poor AI that even PS2 games got better, numerous bugs and glitches in game play and scripted events. Things that anyone who played the game would see and should have said “hmm this should probably be fixed”. So either nobody played it and actually reported problems or they ignored them. These problems didn’t just appear overnight.
 

bguile

Senior member
Nov 30, 2011
529
51
91
Finally finished this today around level 27 or so. I skipped a ton of the side missions because I just wanted to see how it ended. Ending was not what I expected (at least the one I choose), but it was good. The main strength of this game is the effort put into the city design (sometimes it can look just amazing), and the writing for the main story and the side missions. The characters are memorable, and some the side quests are really well written, provided you can deal with the presentation. So many times I would start a mission only to get bombarded with text messages/phone calls part way in that it really took away from the story. Even worse was when the phone calls overlapped quest dialogue and you would have two separate conversations going on at the same time.

The core gameplay of combat, stealth, and nethacking is passable, but nothing special. It works, but it becomes repetitious after awhile. I went stealth mostly, and I was just doing the same sequence of things over and over. Hide, take out a camera, sneak up on guard, disable/hide the body, loot and then repeat.

Game never crashed, and I pulled 60 fps on 1080, so I had no issues there.

Main complaints are the way quests are given to you, lots and lots of small graphical bugs, items getting stuck in floors, fighting with controls, fighting with trying to loot stuff (lots of times I had to put my mouse off center of the item to get it to register), limited rpg elements (feels like an rpg on rails), and a general frustration that I couldn't immerse myself more into the world.

I never really was excited for this game, so I don't know what was promised versus what was delivered. Right now i'd give it a 4/10. I feel like maybe after a year or two of patches, improvements, skill balance, dlc, etc that this game could be really amazing.

Currently I am going back through on a new character and staying away from starting the story. Having a much better time just exploring the starter area. Probably stop and put it on hold once I run out of things to do in Watson, and wait for some patches.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,184
626
126
Performance for one and I don’t care if people with new $800 GPUs can run it on high as it was announced 7 years before we knew about a rtx3080, poor AI that even PS2 games got better, numerous bugs and glitches in game play and scripted events. Things that anyone who played the game would see and should have said “hmm this should probably be fixed”. So either nobody played it and actually reported problems or they ignored them. These problems didn’t just appear overnight.
On the other hand I'm sure management pushed the decision to release it and meet the deadline. Not only that but I'm pretty sure there was incompetent project management as well. I'm a developer myself and I don't know many other developers that would push code in a buggy state to production. I care about what I wrote and how it functions but sometimes you're forced to work fast and sprint to the finish because business wants it and what they say goes.

Take a look at glass door and CDPR I just saw several reviews there that basically describes this incompetence, bad to little or no coordination, constant requirements/vision changes, etc. While they may not get a free pass I definitely don't put complete blame on the devs themselves.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Performance for one and I don’t care if people with new $800 GPUs can run it on high as it was announced 7 years before we knew about a rtx3080, poor AI that even PS2 games got better, numerous bugs and glitches in game play and scripted events. Things that anyone who played the game would see and should have said “hmm this should probably be fixed”. So either nobody played it and actually reported problems or they ignored them. These problems didn’t just appear overnight.

yeah, I agree with all of this, but these are pretty "normal" with a lot of major releases. For some of us though, we really aren't seeing a lot of these problems (I'm now 40 hours into it, I think), at least not in a consistently problematic way.

I get a lot of weird bugs like the radio suddenly doesn't want to work or activate from station to station. buttons freeze (can't switch weapons or even shoot, for no reason), menu doesn't work. For me, I also wonder if some of my issues are related to the fact that I am switching between kb/m and gamepad (for driving). This game annoyingly combines the two formats where I can't tolerably use the specific control method for that type of perspective/activity. If this were a third person game, I'd just use gamepad, but I just refuse to do it with FPS games. It makes no sense to my brain and I won't do it. With GTA-type driving and racing, I absolutely will not use kb/m. it's impossible. ...so the only solution for me is to switch back and forth, which actually works pretty well. Some games lock you out of pick-up swapping for your controls like that, so I'm glad they don't do that here (which seems like something they would do, as CDPR has a history of being stingy with there allowable key mapping. I would probably consider the game unplayable if they locked you into a control scheme through menu selection)
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Finally finished this today around level 27 or so. I skipped a ton of the side missions because I just wanted to see how it ended. Ending was not what I expected (at least the one I choose), but it was good. The main strength of this game is the effort put into the city design (sometimes it can look just amazing), and the writing for the main story and the side missions. The characters are memorable, and some the side quests are really well written, provided you can deal with the presentation. So many times I would start a mission only to get bombarded with text messages/phone calls part way in that it really took away from the story. Even worse was when the phone calls overlapped quest dialogue and you would have two separate conversations going on at the same time.

lol--the overlapping phone call during a conversation. That is annoying, because you can't choose to not answer the phone, ....but I must say, it felt efficient to me. take care of two events at once!
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Patch 1.05 to be out for pc soon. Lots of fixes for missions and some performance fixes for amd/ryzen.

Currently it's out for consoles now.


interesting details on these two issues:

  • [AMD SMT] Optimized default core/thread utilization for 4-core and 6-core AMD Ryzen(tm) processors. 8-core, 12-core and 16-core processors remain unchanged and behaving as intended. This change was implemented in cooperation with AMD and based on tests on both sides indicating that performance improvement occurs only on CPUs with 6 cores and less.

  • Removed the memory_pool_budgets.csv file. which was not connected with the final version of the game and had no influence on it (it was a leftover file used during the development to estimate memory usage. It had no effect on how much memory was actually allocated). Perceived performance increase after editing the file may have been related to restarting the game.

basically, one of these fixes didn't actually do anything because the file didn't do anything in the first place, and the other fix only affected CPUs with 6 cores or less.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,262
5,259
136
interesting details on these two issues:

basically, one of these fixes didn't actually do anything because the file didn't do anything in the first place, and the other fix only affected CPUs with 6 cores or less.

Though, they did show how strong the placebo effect is.
 
Reactions: zinfamous

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,262
5,259
136
These never get old


Yes it does. I am sure I have seen that more than 20 times on various forums for various subjects.

Much like the over-used Hitler video, it was funny this first time. Maybe tolerable for the first half dozen times, now it's just old and tedious.
 
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Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,262
5,259
136
Interesting that AMD suggested not loading on the SMT thread on 8 cores and up.

Tom's hardware tested the "fix" on a 5950x and it made performance worse.

So at some point it shifts from beneficial to detrimental. Though I would have expected that point at 12 cores, not 8. Maybe it just didn't make a big enough benefit at 8 cores...
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
Yes it does. I am sure I have seen that more than 20 times on various forums for various subjects.

Much like the over-used Hitler video, it was funny this first time. Maybe tolerable for the first half dozen times, now it's just old and tedious.

that dude is infectious, though. He has well out-lasted Hitler.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,120
5,998
136
Yes it does. I am sure I have seen that more than 20 times on various forums for various subjects.

Much like the over-used Hitler video, it was funny this first time. Maybe tolerable for the first half dozen times, now it's just old and tedious.

First time I saw it was when the GTX 970 was revealed to basically be 3.5 GB card and it was hilarious then, but yeah agreed.
 

Igo69

Senior member
Apr 26, 2015
720
103
106
I liked this one. IDK why but it just made me chuckle. We all know how it's gonna end but I just laugh everytime I watch it.


Never seen that video before. Made me laugh especially at the end 17fps lol
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Yes it does. I am sure I have seen that more than 20 times on various forums for various subjects.

Much like the over-used Hitler video, it was funny this first time. Maybe tolerable for the first half dozen times, now it's just old and tedious.
Pretty sure I've already seen two.


Oh shit, theres more!

 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,262
5,259
136
Pretty sure I've already seen two.


Oh shit, theres more!


I really don't get why some people think they are clever re-doing something that was old and tired a decade ago. I remember watching "Hitler reacts" video somewhere in 2009 or before (at workplace that I haven't been to since), though I can't remember what the subject was then.

After you see it once, it loses impact, and while I can't speak for others, I almost immediately lost interest in watching another, same goes for the Spanish laughing guy. Spanish laughing guy is newer, but still a few years old now.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,806
29,557
146
I really don't get why some people think they are clever re-doing something that was old and tired a decade ago. I remember watching "Hitler reacts" video somewhere in 2009 or before (at workplace that I haven't been to since), though I can't remember what the subject was then.

After you see it once, it loses impact, and while I can't speak for others, I almost immediately lost interest in watching another, same goes for the Spanish laughing guy. Spanish laughing guy is newer, but still a few years old now.

Downfall was released in 2004, and it didn't take long for the first Hitler video to be released. I want to say that the first one I recall seeing was ~2007 or 2008 (same situation, pretty sure it was at a job, in a city, that I left middle of 2008...so had to be around that period).

And yeah, I forget the subject of the first version of this, but I want to say it was hardware related. Not sure.

oh wow, so apparently the first parody was in 2006, and Hitler was angry about the features in the new MS Flight Simulator at the time, lol

 
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