Dallas officer enters apartment she mistakes for her own, fatally shoots man inside

[Jhhnn]

Meaning if the cop was black he would have been arrested and his apartment searched before he could scrub it.

That's ridiculous. A quarter of the Dallas PD is black, up & down the ranks. The Chief is black.

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/s...cer-demographics-minority-representation.html

If you were arguing that anybody but a cop would have had their place tossed you might be right. If she were shown any favor it was because she's a cop, not because she's white.

So, are you going to fill out the conspiracy theory that she somehow needed to "scrub" her place? There's no evidence to that effect, only suspicion on your part.

I mean, don't think like a Birther Benghazi Believer, OK?

 

[HomerJS]

That's ridiculous. A quarter of the Dallas PD is black, up & down the ranks. The Chief is black.

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/s...cer-demographics-minority-representation.html

If you were arguing that anybody but a cop would have had their place tossed you might be right. If she were shown any favor it was because she's a cop, not because she's white.

So, are you going to fill out the conspiracy theory that she somehow needed to "scrub" her place? There's no evidence to that effect, only suspicion on your part.

I mean, don't think like a Birther Benghazi Believer, OK?

She was allowed back in her place after the crime and she's moved out. Things have been removed. Police should have quarantined it before.

 

[Paladin3]

You don't need a conspiracy theory just an awareness of history to know blacks are treated worse by the criminal justice system then whites

That still doesn't justify calling for this cop to be fired and in jail for murder without a fair trial in a misguided effort to somehow balance the scales of justice. I'm not saying that's what you are calling for, but you've already said that if this cop isn't convicted there will be riots and you don't have a problem with that, all based on rumors and accusations that have yet to see the inside of a courtroom.

I'm not trying to excuse the shooting or how the investigation seems to have been handled to date. It looks very, very bad for the cop, and only a fool would refuse to acknowledge racial, social and economical inequality in our justice system, but for that very reason we should demand all questions be asked and answer in a court of law before we start talking about rioting.

Anything less is advocating for the system to remain unfair and biased, just tilted in the favor of whomever is ready to riot next. And if your answer is that black have never had justice before, then just grab a fire bomb and start the riots tonight. Why wait?

EDITED: for clarity.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

That still doesn't justify calling for this cop to be fired and in jail for murder without a fair trial in a misguided effort to somehow balance the scales of justice. I'm not saying that's what you are calling for, but you've already said that if this cop isn't convicted there will be riots and you don't have a problem with that, all based on rumors and accusations. And I'm not saying it doesn't look very, very bad for the cop, but we should demand all questions be asked and answer in a court of law before we start talking about rioting.

Anything less is advocating for the system to remain unfair and biased, just tilted in the favor of whomever is ready to riot next.

Fired absolutely there is no question she entered the wrong home, shot and killed the owner. Zero question.
Imagine her being on trial for something like “you saw the accused do xx and XX. How can we be sure your observations are correct when you ENTERED SOMEONE ELSES HOME THINKING IT WAS YOURS AND KILLED A MAN FOR IT”.

or another question

Should an accountant be fired for having money that belongs to a client in their own bank account. Hey they haven’t been convicted of a crime they may be innocent

or

Dr is doing unapproved plastic surgery from home. Hey he hasn’t been convicted yet.

 

[Cr0nJ0b]

That still doesn't justify calling for this cop to be fired and in jail for murder without a fair trial in a misguided effort to somehow balance the scales of justice. I'm not saying that's what you are calling for, but you've already said that if this cop isn't convicted there will be riots and you don't have a problem with that, all based on rumors and accusations that have yet to see the inside of a courtroom.

I'm not trying to excuse the shooting or how the investigation seems to have been handled to date. It looks very, very bad for the cop, and only a fool would refuse to acknowledge racial, social and economical inequality in our justice system, but for that very reason we should demand all questions be asked and answer in a court of law before we start talking about rioting.

Anything less is advocating for the system to remain unfair and biased, just tilted in the favor of whomever is ready to riot next. And if your answer is that black have never had justice before, then just grab a fire bomb and start the riots tonight. Why wait?

I can see what you are saying about rush to judgement for murder. She definitely deserves a trial...but as for being fired? No, she should be fired for bad judgement at a minimum. Having a cop on your force that can't even find her own apartment door is a liability. I don't think there is any question that she went in the wrong door with no provocation. so, fire her for that and let a jury decide if it's murder.

By the way, imagine if the apt owner had been armed and shot the cop instead...he would be within his rights, but he would also be going to death row. So, either way, he was a dead man when she walked in the door.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Which is conspiracy theory.

...

More conspiracy theory.

You know what cleans up conspiracy theories? Investigations do. Warrants served on the residence/phones of someone who just went into another person's home and murdered them to death. That shit right there clears up conspiracy theories.

Not doing those things makes conspiracy theories look legit. They chose to not do those things.

 

[Paladin3]

Fired absolutely there is no question she entered the wrong home, shot and killed the owner. Zero question.
Imagine her being on trial for something like “you saw the accused do xx and XX. How can we be sure your observations are correct when you ENTERED SOMEONE ELSES HOME THINKING IT WAS YOURS AND KILLED A MAN FOR IT”.

or another question

Should an account be fired for having money that belongs to a client in their own bank account. Hey they haven’t been convicted of a crime they may be innocent

or

Dr is doing unapproved plastic surgery from home. Hey he hasn’t been convicted yet.

I think you can suspend a cop, take away their gun, even suspend pay and whatever else is necessary until after the trial. I saw protest signs the weekend after the shooting calling for the cop to be both fired and in jail for murder. And I'm sure the folks waving them knew very little of this case beyond the race and profession of those involved.

I think I can fairly say many have made up their minds about why Mr. Jean got shot based on race and cop hate. Doesn't make the cop any less guilty looking and the shooting any less suspect, but I've still got hope we can demand and hopefully get a fair trial. If others have given up on that then grab your guns and start burning shit down. I'm not at that point yet.

 

[Jaskalas]

WTF, they never searched her apartment?!? And now they can't because she has moved out of the complex. No warrants for her phone calls, nothing. How in the hell do you shoot someone in their own home, you claim it was just a mistake, and you are allowed to freaking move before they even search your house to find out if you and the dead guy might have had more of a relationship than you stated?

More than the shooter needs to be brought to justice in this case.
The police department needs to pay for its obstruction of justice and malpractice at handling the shooter.

 

[Josephus312]

Which is conspiracy theory.

How the HELL would you know that? She was let go immediatly, cleared out her apartment and the only place they actually searched was the victims on a warrant for DRUGS!

Two witnesses said they heard her banging on his door, eventual communications are long gone by now becuase the police didn't secure ANY evidence from her apartment.

Conspiracy theory my ass. This is authoritarianism instituted into law.

 

[Josephus312]

That still doesn't justify calling for this cop to be fired and in jail for murder without a fair trial in a misguided effort to somehow balance the scales of justice. I'm not saying that's what you are calling for

Your comment makes absolutely zero sense. No one was calling for that at all. What some are calling for is for police officers not to search the victims apartment on a warrant for drugs to smear the victim while ignoring possible motives and allowing the perpetrator to cover their tracks all while given several days to confer with an attorney before being questioned.

I don't think it would make any difference if the races were reversed, this perversion of justice is legal because cops protect their own.

 

[Paladin3]

I can see what you are saying about rush to judgement for murder. She definitely deserves a trial...but as for being fired? No, she should be fired for bad judgement at a minimum. Having a cop on your force that can't even find her own apartment door is a liability. I don't think there is any question that she went in the wrong door with no provocation. so, fire her for that and let a jury decide if it's murder.

By the way, imagine if the apt owner had been armed and shot the cop instead...he would be within his rights, but he would also be going to death row. So, either way, he was a dead man when she walked in the door.

You can't have it both ways, saying you support due process and fair trials, but you already know what happened. Or that you know any black man shooting a cop will never get a fair trial. Regardless of how difficult that may currently be to get, we must still strive for it as the gold standard we will accept nothing less than.

Either we wait for the trial, accepting the cops innocence until proven guilty, or we indulge our need for vengeance and make sure she suffers as much as possible now. I'd rather have righteous vengeance later, and do what I can to uphold the concept of innocent until proven guilty regardless of race or it being a cop.

That said, if the Dallas PD did an internal investigation, found the cop guilty of violating procedure or some other kind of gross incompetence, and fired her for the shooing independent of what a criminal trial might find, I would totally accept that. I would hope that their decision would be based on their policy and facts of the case, rather than an attempt to pacify the outraged public assumptions of guilt along black/blue racial/professional lines.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

More than the shooter needs to be brought to justice in this case.
The police department needs to pay for its obstruction of justice and malpractice at handling the shooter.

I agree. I have complete faith in the cops' motivation and willingness to investigate their best friends and send them to jail for wrong doing. I also think the DA who relies on the support of police to do his job will prosecute these police.

 

[Josephus312]

You can't have it both ways, saying you support due process and fair trials, but you already know what happened. Or that you know any black man shooting a cop will never get a fair trial.

Either we wait for the trial, accepting the cops innocence until proven guilty, or we indulge our need for vengeance and make sure she suffers as much as possible now. I'd rather have righteous vengeance later, and do what I can to uphold the concept of innocent until proven guilty regardless of race or it being a cop.

That said, if the Dallas PD did an internal investigation, found the cop guilty of violating procedure or some other kind of gross incompetence, and fired her for the shooing independent of what a criminal trial might find, I would totally accept that. I would hope that their decision would be based on their policy and facts of the case, rather than an attempt to pacify the outraged public assumptions of guilt along black/blue racial/professional lines.

Actually, even with the events described as they are she went into the wrong apartment and shot the home owner. I'd say we KNOW she's guilty of having done that.

The Dallas PD wants her to be freed. ALL of their actions show that they are not in the least interested in anything else and it's perfectly legal. Why the hell else would they get a warrant to search for drugs in the victims apartment when he wasn't under suspicion in any shape or form while letting her clear out her communications and her apartment? Isn't the suspect the one who should have her home searched?

It's just legalized authoritarianism where cops are placed WAY above the law and it's fucking disgusting.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

You can't have it both ways, saying you support due process and fair trials, but you already know what happened. Or that you know any black man shooting a cop will never get a fair trial. Regardless of how difficult that may currently be to get, we must still strive for it as the gold standard we will accept nothing less than.

Either we wait for the trial, accepting the cops innocence until proven guilty, or we indulge our need for vengeance and make sure she suffers as much as possible now. I'd rather have righteous vengeance later, and do what I can to uphold the concept of innocent until proven guilty regardless of race or it being a cop.

That said, if the Dallas PD did an internal investigation, found the cop guilty of violating procedure or some other kind of gross incompetence, and fired her for the shooing independent of what a criminal trial might find, I would totally accept that. I would hope that their decision would be based on their policy and facts of the case, rather than an attempt to pacify the outraged public assumptions of guilt along black/blue racial/professional lines.

It appears that you have missed the entire fucking point. The point is that the fair trial isn't even possible anymore due to the astonishingly unusual and friend-protecting choices of the people who are responsible for ensuring evidence fairly makes it to trial. These same people are well known for protecting each other no matter what and it shits all over the possibility of justice or a fair trial. You seem chill as shit with this. You even seem offended that people might think this is bad/wrong/evil/unjust. Why? WHY?

Case in point: literally anybody else on Earth enters another person's home and murder that guy, and they are arrested and warrants are executed on the murderer's home/phone/car/everything. This happens every time. Every single time. Yet it didn't happen this time. You're OK with this? You are going to pretend that this didn't happen because wagon-circling cops don't reflexively protect each other no matter what? You are going to pretend this won't have an impact on the outcome of a potential trial?

 

[Jhhnn]

She was allowed back in her place after the crime and she's moved out. Things have been removed. Police should have quarantined it before.

Based on what evidence, exactly?

 

[HomerJS]

That still doesn't justify calling for this cop to be fired and in jail for murder without a fair trial in a misguided effort to somehow balance the scales of justice. I'm not saying that's what you are calling for, but you've already said that if this cop isn't convicted there will be riots and you don't have a problem with that, all based on rumors and accusations that have yet to see the inside of a courtroom.

I'm not trying to excuse the shooting or how the investigation seems to have been handled to date. It looks very, very bad for the cop, and only a fool would refuse to acknowledge racial, social and economical inequality in our justice system, but for that very reason we should demand all questions be asked and answer in a court of law before we start talking about rioting.

Anything less is advocating for the system to remain unfair and biased, just tilted in the favor of whomever is ready to riot next. And if your answer is that black have never had justice before, then just grab a fire bomb and start the riots tonight. Why wait?

EDITED: for clarity.

She is not being treated like anyone else you enters someone else's home and kills them without provocation.

So let me get this straight, white cop enters an innocent unarmed black man's apartment, executes him without consequences and you expect peace?

 

[HomerJS]

Based on what evidence, exactly?

Common sense she re-entered her apartment, moved out and took nothing with her?

Again, common sense.

 

[HomerJS]

Based on what evidence, exactly?

Dallas police Officer Amber Guyger moved out of apartment complex after fatal shooting of Botham Jean

Guyger has packed up and moved out of the Cedars apartment complex where she killed Botham Jean on Sept. 6, according to WFAA-TV (Channel 8), which obtained an email sent to residents.

https://thegrio.com/2018/09/17/dall...-complex-after-fatal-shooting-of-botham-jean/

 

[Jhhnn]

Dallas police Officer Amber Guyger moved out of apartment complex after fatal shooting of Botham Jean


https://thegrio.com/2018/09/17/dall...-complex-after-fatal-shooting-of-botham-jean/

Of course she moved. Staying there would have invited trouble for herself & the whole building. The managers of the complex may have requested it, anyway. And since when was moving grounds for a search of anybody?

 

[HomerJS]

Of course she moved. Staying there would have invited trouble for herself & the whole building. The managers of the complex may have requested it, anyway. And since when was moving grounds for a search of anybody?

You asked for evidence she went back to her apartment took items and moved out. I gave it too you.

 

[Jhhnn]

You asked for evidence she went back to her apartment took items and moved out. I gave it too you.

You're working very hard to be a conspiracy theory dumbass. She probably grabbed an overnight bag & a change of clothes, stayed with a friend & moved her stuff to storage or another place the next day. Seems like a reasonable way to go to me.

Put yourself in her shoes & tell us what you would have done instead.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Put yourself in her shoes & tell us what you would have done instead.

I don't really want to put myself in her shoes because I would have to be able to empathize with what it feels like to be one of either:
1) evil enough to shoot someone over noise
2) stupid enough to enter the wrong house and cowardly enough to shoot someone who is in that house.

What would I have done instead?
1) Gone to my own home on my own floor that opens with my own key and has my own mat with my own stuff inside.
2) Not shot someone.

 

[HomerJS]

You're working very hard to be a conspiracy theory dumbass. She probably grabbed an overnight bag & a change of clothes, stayed with a friend & moved her stuff to storage or another place the next day. Seems like a reasonable way to go to me.

Put yourself in her shoes & tell us what you would have done instead.

What Pipeline said

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't really want to put myself in her shoes because I would have to be able to empathize with what it feels like to be one of either:
1) evil enough to shoot someone over noise
2) stupid enough to enter the wrong house and cowardly enough to shoot someone who is in that house.

What would I have done instead?
1) Gone to my own home on my own floor that opens with my own key and has my own mat with my own stuff inside.
2) Not shot someone.

So dishonest. The question was what would you do after 2) occurred.

 

[HomerJS]

So dishonest. The question was what would you do after 2) occurred.

I'll answer it this way. If there was anything in that apartment that indicated she knew tie victim think its still there?