Damn audio...so confusing...ENLISTING HELP OF ALL AUDIOPHILES!!

[MagicMan17]

Alright, I've got quite a post for you. Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to help this poor shlub figure what the hell is going on. First, general details...I've got an Asus A7N266-VM with an nVIDIA nFORCE 220-D Chipset that supports Dolby Digital Surround Sound and has digital outputs. As of now, I have this 2.1 system. I would like to achieve full digital sound without the help of a home theater receiver...

1. If I keep this card (nForce) and get any 5.1 speaker setup...will I get digital sound? Does my card even have the capacity to do this as the Audigy 2 and other after-market cards are supposed to have?

2. I also have an Audigy 2 at my disposal. If #1 cannot happen because the integrated sound card of the nFORCE is just not good enough, can I replace with an Audigy 2 and then get some 5.1 speakers connected through the analog outputs and get digital sound?

3. If #2 is not able to take place, perhaps because the speakers have to support the digital soundcard, I also can get Creative Inspire 6600's which according to Creative's website it says that "With full 6.1 support from Sound Blaster® Audigy? 2, Creative Inspire 6.1 6600 allows you to maximize your desktop entertainment with Dolby® Digital Surround EX encoded DVD movies, and enhanced EAX® and Microsoft® DirectSound® 3D effects in games." Does this mean that I would have FULL digital sound?

4. If all of the above can't happen, can I keep my present sound card and then get digital speakers w/built-in dolby/dts decoder (Logitec Z-680's for example)

5. Can I avoid getting something like the Logitec Z-680 by getting a certain sound card or software program that would take care of the digital decoding within the computer?

6. If there is no way I can get full digital sound without a home theater receiver or digital speakers w/built-in decoding, should I even bother to upgrade to the Audigy 2? Is there much difference from the nForce? I mainly use it for watching divx movies/shows, mp3 playback, and sometimes games.

7. If I do upgrade to the Audigy 2, should I go with their Creative speakers because I have read in a lot of places that getting those products toghether helps performance from both and is a good way to go. Opinions?

8. What speakers do you think are best for me...looking for under $200 range...

9. Last, I have read a lot about DAC's...I know they are Digital to analog converters but what devices have them...do they make you lose digital quality, will I still have multi-channel support even when DAC's are involved. IS there anyway that digital sound can be processed through analog inputs that even good sound cards like the Audigy 2 use to implement a 5.1 or 6.1 system?

If you've read this far, I congratulate you but I still hope and pray that you have some answers for me and would be KIND enough to help me out. If you do decide to enlighten me, please use these numbers if possible so I don't get further confused (ex. 1. Yes, you can do this b/c...blah blah blah). THANKS SO MUCH...IF I EVER FIGURE THIS OUT IT WILL BE THANKS TO YOU GUYS

Hopefully,

Prav

 

[Heretik]

#1: No, the Soundstorm can only ENCODE digital audio, not decode it.

#2: Yes and No. The Audigy2 can decode in software, but you must have a way to input the digital signal. If it is from a source outside of your computer, you would need the Audigy 2 Platinum.

#3: No, I believe the 6600's are analog speakers.

#4: Yes, if you get a set of digital speakers, you can run the digital out from your onboard audio to them.

#5: Yes, you can use the Audigy 2 Platinum (the Audigy drive has all the inputs).

#6: You CAN get digital sound from your computer without a home theater system.

#7: That's a matter of preference. I have only used Creative speakers for the last year or so I can't comment on others. Shop around and read some reviews.

#8: Again, personal preference. Go to local Best Buy or something and listen to some different setups. Most people don't hear audio exactly the same as others.

#9: DAC's are used in digital speakers (among other things). All audio (what you hear) is analog. The DAC simply converts the digital signal into something you can hear (analog). Digital audio is usually transmitted via optical cable or SPDIF cable. As far as I know, you cannot get digital output from an analog input (can't run digital audio through an analog signal).

It seems like your best bet might be to:

A) Get a set of digital speakers. The Logitechs you mention appear to be very good and very popular. You can just run the digital signal from your SPDIF output to them.

B) Get the Audigy2, but with the Audigy Drive so you can connect external digital signals and let the software decode it for you. This is what I do for the room the computer is in and it works very well. If you are not planning to hook up external digital sources, then you wouldn't need the drive.

 

[MagicMan17]

So according to best bet B, I can use the Audigy 2 (non-plat) since I don't want to connect any external digital sources (I only use computer cd player, computer dvd player, comp based video/audio), get some Creative 6.1's or 5.1's or whatever and I would be in the clear for receiving full digital sound??

Also, wanted to say Thanks for your great response Heretik.

 

[Heretik]

No problem, and yes, using that setup you could decode Dolby Digital from your DVD's. Digital is only the format through which the signal is passed. Most games, apps, etc on your computer will only pass an analog signal. That was the big selling point for the Soundstorm audio, it could take analog sources from games, etc, and ENCODE them to digital to be passed to your digital speakers. Having the signal sent down a digital stream allows for better separation of the signal (Right Front Speaker, Center Speaker, etc..). The only time you are likely to notice the difference is while watching DVD's.

 

[MagicMan17]

its all getting clearer and clearer...more specific question though...mp3's are digital, would they be transmitted in digital and could I tell the difference if they were or not?

Second, do I even need the Audigy 2 as I have an nForce (wish I had an nForce2)? Is the Audigy 2 able to take games and stuff like the Soundstorm and process it to digital if in the future I ever decided to get a home theater receiver or Logitech Z-680's?

And finally, even if things were not digitally transmitted, at least 2-channel would transmit and I would be able to hear sound from all 6 speakers right? (I definitely don't want it where only DVD's would actually use all 6 speakers).

 

[dowxp]

1. all digital sound means it can output sound digitally, leaving it up to the DAC\speakers to decode it however they please.

2. uh i think you have digital audio and analog audio mixed up. in the end its analog, its just the process how it gets to your ears. its a good bet audigy's DAC is better than NF's though

3. dont get confused by creative's marketing campaign. you do not need creative's products to enjoy dobly EX 6.1 sound. nor do you have to have their inspire and speaker stuff. "Does this mean that I would have FULL digital sound?" again, im not sure what you mean. only certain dvds have 6.1 audio. most usually are 3/2 audio... i suppose your meaning of FULL is "all possiblities" then yes. but then again, you might want to consider a Revolution 7.1, logitech's z560 or z580's and save you some money.

4. yes...

5. yes, you buy windvd or powerdvd and set it to 5/6/7 speaker mode. it is up to you which sound card to use.

6. "If there is no way I can get full digital sound without a home theater receiver or digital speakers w/built-in decoding, should I even bother to upgrade to the Audigy 2?" full digital sound is a generic term. a theater receiever is basically a DAC w/ really power outputs for speakers =). "Is there much difference from the nForce?" uh, sounds cards DAC differs alot. speakers too. " I mainly use it for watching divx movies/shows, mp3 playback, and sometimes games." then don't worry about "full" sound. unless your divx comes with AC3 audio, you'll just be in in 2 speaker stereo. if you want to experience "full" audio, you can try playing it in powerdvd and using virtual dobly speaker

7. " If I do upgrade to the Audigy 2, should I go with their Creative speakers because I have read in a lot of places that getting those products toghether helps performance from both and is a good way to go. Opinions? " they probably have special software that link each other, but u'd save money getting z560's or whatnot. im not sure, i run headphones.

8. z560

9. "Last, I have read a lot about DAC's...I know they are Digital to analog converters but what devices have them...do they make you lose digital quality, will I still have multi-channel support even when DAC's are involved. IS there anyway that digital sound can be processed through analog inputs that even good sound cards like the Audigy 2 use to implement a 5.1 or 6.1 system? "

digital sound is just sound in bits. you need a DAC to convert it into an analog signal. there are alot of DAC's, some are better than others. simply, a sound file is decoded into seperate streams as their codecs specify, whether it be AC3 2.0, 3.2, 6.1 or ogg 2.0 .. blah. from there the DAC's convert each channel as normally. the DAC doesn't really know if it was multichannel or not. for the last Q, im not sure what you mean: what analog input? line-in!? perhaps you mean outputs? digital sound can't be processed through analog outputs because it is already analog. it can be processed as analog to virtual streams via a virtual dobly speaker or SRS sound packages. i guess?



im an amateur, my answers may be biased\incorrect

 

[dowxp]

Originally posted by: MagicMan17
its all getting clearer and clearer...more specific question though...mp3's are digital, would they be transmitted in digital and could I tell the difference if they were or not? Second, do I even need the Audigy 2 as I have an nForce (wish I had an nForce2)? Is the Audigy 2 able to take games and stuff like the Soundstorm and process it to digital if in the future I ever decided to get a home theater receiver or Logitech Z-680's? And finally, even if things were not digitally transmitted, at least 2-channel would transmit and I would be able to hear sound from all 6 speakers right? (I definitely don't want it where only DVD's would actually use all 6 speakers).

you probably couldn't tell the difference... unless you have some high cost hardware.

i cant answer whether audigy2 or nforce is better, i have never used either. i'd guess audigy's DAC is better.

not sure on the 3rd question, never had a soundstorm or such

yes..

 

[dowxp]

just Heretik descript of soundstorm technology:

though its just my opinion, its not a really a huge deal having game audio encoded into a digital stream. you probably cannot tell the difference, and besides, almost all games use analog outputs. digital standalone DAC's and multi channel sound processing isnt a big deal with computer cinema since almost everyone relies on dobly software decoders in their dvd playback software on analog.

only in TV theatre setups do you have receievers doing this job since most DVD players do a crappy job of doing it and their speaker power output sucks if you are dealing with alot of speakers i think

 

[Heretik]

Yes. I tried to keep it somewhat simple.

Technically, EVERYTHING stored on your computer and CD/DVD is in digital format. But the word "digital" when it comes to audio usually describes some sort of surround sound stream (Dolby Digital, DTS, etc...).

All soundcards have a DAC to convert the mp3, wav file, game audio, etc from it's digital format to analog and passes the analog signal to your speakers.

In the case of digital speakers, every speaker has it's own DAC and there is usually a type of decoder involved. The decoder decides which part of the signal goes to which speaker. A signal is passed to the proper speaker and is then converted to analog. The signal is sent according to which type of stream it is (Dolby Digital would be an AC-3 stream).

The Nforce can take any audio and convert it to an AC-3 stream on the fly. So it goes from the digital storage format, through the encoder, and then outputs as an AC-3 stream (Dolby Digital). This AC-3 stream gets sent your digital speakers, first passing through the decoder and then to the DAC in the speakers to be converted back to analog at the end.

The Audigy 2 can decode an AC-3 stream in software. It can receive the stream, decode it, then send it to the proper speaker. The Audigy 2 cannot, however, encode an AC-3 stream like the Nforce can.

I believe the Nforce used a Realtek DAC. I'm not sure which one the Audigy 2 uses.

 

[fyleow]

MagicMan I think you're getting confused by the whole digital audio thing. Just because it's digital doesn't mean that it will be better, in fact if you have a high end sound card it will probably sound better using analog instead of digital. It really depends how good the DAC is in the speakers and it's probably not that great. If you have a pair of decent speakers already you might want to look into getting an Audiophile USB. The DACs are not inside the computer (like sound cards) so there is less interference. It also uses an external power supply that is much cleaner than the one from your computer power supply.

Link

Of course, the best way is to just get a dedicated CD player and listen to music from that. Nothing out of a computer sound card will be able to beat a dedicated player.

 

[Tab]

Anyone have any suggestions for a good Audigy 2 / $130 5.1 Setup and a Audigy 2 / $250 Setup 5.1

 

[MagicMan17]

Thanx so much for all your answers guys...

So, would anyone recommend switching out the nForce for the Audigy 2? Mostly, I just want all the speakers to have sound coming out of them at the same time, be it stereo or 5 or 6 channel. This is possible with any card/speaker setup I get...correct?

 

[dowxp]

any sound card can do what you are asking. just set sound configuration to 6 or 5 speakers. as for switching, you probably couldn't tell the difference... fyleow has it pretty concise already. getting a seperate external DAC is already pushing sanity -- you need really good equipment to hear the difference.

 

[MagicMan17]

alright...it's all figured out...

So there is practically no reason to switch to the Audigy2...I mean why is it so popular especially with many ppl having integrated audio anyway? Does the Audigy 2 have any special or unique features which could come in handy down the road when audio in games/mp3s/movies gets more advanced?

Like I look at the back of the box of an Audigy 2 and its overwhelming, they make it sound so awesome that I just can't believe that I would get just about the same stuff with my built-in nForce (not even an nForce2)

again, THANX SO MUCH to DOWXP, HERETIK, and FYLEOW


P.S. WHAT is a good site for pc speaker reviews?

 

[fyleow]

The Audigy 2 is one of the better consumer cards out there in terms of sound quality. It also supports EAX Advanced HD which is used for environmental sound effects in games. It's also one of the fastest cards out there so when you have sound on it doesn't consume a lot of CPU power. You can also play DVD Audio disks with the Audigy 2 (It's a new kind of format that sounds better than regular CDs)

For good speaker reviews try: 3D Sound Surge

What's your budget?

 

[MagicMan17]

lookin around $150 or below...

 

[Sunny129]

Originally posted by: MagicMan17
alright...it's all figured out...

So there is practically no reason to switch to the Audigy2...I mean why is it so popular especially with many ppl having integrated audio anyway? Does the Audigy 2 have any special or unique features which could come in handy down the road when audio in games/mp3s/movies gets more advanced?

Like I look at the back of the box of an Audigy 2 and its overwhelming, they make it sound so awesome that I just can't believe that I would get just about the same stuff with my built-in nForce (not even an nForce2)

again, THANX SO MUCH to DOWXP, HERETIK, and FYLEOW


P.S. WHAT is a good site for pc speaker reviews?

the reason the audigy 2 (and some other sound cards) are so popular w/ audiophiles is that no onboard produces sound as crisp and clean as it can be heard through a PCI sound card (that is until Soundstorm became an integrated sound feature). onboard sound chips before soundstorm just weren't as good. and to be honest, i've never heard sound storm before, but all other onboard sound i've listened to just doesn't compare to the quality of sound after disabling it in the BIOS and switching to my Philips Acoustic Edge...and i don't even think that's a great sound card by today's standards anymore, but it still sounds great compared to the AC '97 codec on my IS7 mobo.

 

[MagicMan17]

is nforce1 considered part of the "soundstorm" or is that only nforce2 and beyond?

 

[Sunny129]

Originally posted by: MagicMan17
is nforce1 considered part of the "soundstorm" or is that only nforce2 and beyond?

i don't think soundstorm was available with nforce1. although it was capable of dolby digital encoding, most mobo manufacturers were shipping their boards with analog-out only, and not digital-out. digital-out, along w/ analog-out, is part of soundstorm's interface. and that's why nVidia made it available w/ the nforce2 -- so users have the option of connecting to an external dolby digital decoder. remember, soundstorm encodes, not decodes, dolby digital. (or if it decodes as well, there must be some reason nVidia left an option this time to connect to an external decoder, such as the Logitech Z-680's or something...)

 

[dowxp]

Originally posted by: MagicMan17
alright...it's all figured out... So there is practically no reason to switch to the Audigy2...I mean why is it so popular especially with many ppl having integrated audio anyway? Does the Audigy 2 have any special or unique features which could come in handy down the road when audio in games/mp3s/movies gets more advanced? Like I look at the back of the box of an Audigy 2 and its overwhelming, they make it sound so awesome that I just can't believe that I would get just about the same stuff with my built-in nForce (not even an nForce2) again, THANX SO MUCH to DOWXP, HERETIK, and FYLEOW P.S. WHAT is a good site for pc speaker reviews?

the DAC on integrated mobo's isnt as good as seperate cards. audigy2 in itself isn't all that great. they used to have driver problems but i guess they fixed them. i would get TBSC. if you want higher Q, go M-audio REVO. if you really want higher Q and do not play games, Audiophile 2496.

nforce1 sound probably doesn't have EAX2 or whatever, but thats not really a big deal. if you get overwhelmed by reading a box, you need to calm down or you will get jacked by advertising all your life by useless products.

sound reviews go to 3dsoundsurge.com

 

[Bruck]

Wanted to make you aware of a frustration I have with the terminalogy and claims of the products you are using/comparing.

I have a home theatre setup. I wanted true 5.1 sound from my soundcard. If not, i was willing to settle for discreet playback of 4.1 or 5.1 speakers. I have been told and proved by the limitations of technology. That this will not happen, I connected my audigy digital out to my home theatre rig, I enabled all the settings, and the best I got was 2 channel digital audio. I wanted 4 or 5. the only way I achieved this was by using analog, and the dual (analog) outputs of the audigy card. I dont understand this, but this is the way I have come to learn that music on your pc can not be discreet digital 4 or 5 channel sound. I can emulate my digital signal with my receiver but that is Bullsh*t! I have given up on this. Keep in mind this is for music from my mp3s. I know i could run dvd 5.1 (i think) thru the audigy but that is a waste since I have a home theatre.

 

[MagicMan17]

well that 3dsoundsurge does not have any reviews on 5.1 or 6.1 systems that I am looking at in my pricerange...(creative inspire, logitech, etc) anyone know any sites that have more reviews (unfortunately i couldn't find any on cnet...)

 

[Sunny129]

Originally posted by: Bruck
Wanted to make you aware of a frustration I have with the terminalogy and claims of the products you are using/comparing.

I have a home theatre setup. I wanted true 5.1 sound from my soundcard. If not, i was willing to settle for discreet playback of 4.1 or 5.1 speakers. I have been told and proved by the limitations of technology. That this will not happen, I connected my audigy digital out to my home theatre rig, I enabled all the settings, and the best I got was 2 channel digital audio. I wanted 4 or 5. the only way I achieved this was by using analog, and the dual (analog) outputs of the audigy card. I dont understand this, but this is the way I have come to learn that music on your pc can not be discreet digital 4 or 5 channel sound. I can emulate my digital signal with my receiver but that is Bullsh*t! I have given up on this. Keep in mind this is for music from my mp3s. I know i could run dvd 5.1 (i think) thru the audigy but that is a waste since I have a home theatre.

I have the Logitech Z-680 5.1 speaker setup, but they are currently running through analog-out from my onboard AC '97 (yeah, i know...it sucks), but my Philips Acoustic Edge uses the same AC '97 codec that the onboard does, so i figured i'd use the onboard to reduce stress on the CPU. anyways, my speakers have built in DAC's which obviously aren't being used if they're currently plugged into analog-out. i can toggle through 5 or 6 different speaker modes, one of which is direct 6-channel sound, but it is hard for me to tell if i'm getting true 5.1 while listening to mp3's, or if it's just 2.1 sound w/ the front left and right satellite sound being duplicated by the rears. according to Philips, i should be able to get true 5.1 while using my Acoustic Edge though, and if it uses the same AC '97 codec that my mobo does, then it should be working right now. i'll have to listen to it a bit and find out if its true 5.1. getting to the point, i have digital S/PDIF in/out on both the mobo and the sound card, and eventually i want to try it out to see if the DAC's in my speakers are better than those on my mobo and/or sound card. anyways, if i can ever figure out if i have true 5.1 sound working while listening to digital music, i'll let you know.

the thing about true 5.1 is that every sound card manufacturer claims to have technology that expands stereo into 4.1, 5.1, and other setups. Philips (Acoustic Edge) calls it Qsound, M-Audio (Revolution 7.1) calls it SRS Circle Surround II, and Sound Blaster (Audigy2) calls it CMSS. i don't know why you can't get true 5.1 from stereo, unless your sound card doesn't support that kind of conversion or something. anyways, all three of the above sound cards support stereo to 5.1 conversion, and the audigy2 supports up to 6.1 conversion.

EDIT: scratch some of that first paragraph, i goofed. my IS7 mobo does not use the same AC '97 audio codec that my Acoustic Edge does. the IS7 uses the Analog Devices AD1985 codec. i am currently in the process of finding out if this codec supports any or all of the following stereo conversions: stereo to 4.1 / 5.1 / 6.1 / 7.1.

 

[screw3d]

I've switched from Soundstorm to Audigy2 due to the fact that my setup, a Z560 uses analog connection. Soundstorm is only, well, Soundstorm when you have a external DAC connected to it. Otherwise, it'll still use the on-board Realtek DAC on my 8RDA+ to decode sound to its analog outputs.

I was able to hear a great deal of difference by switching to the Audigy2.. fuller sound and significantly less background hiss/buzz/noise on my speakers, not to mention that it sounds much better in games (EAX). I turn EAX off for my music however.

Generally, my thoughts are: Soundstorm (When output via DD stream) ~= Audigy1 < Audigy2

Although I know that you are comparing between nforce1 and Audigy2, here is still some interesting read.

 

[Sunny129]

Originally posted by: marvie
I've switched from Soundstorm to Audigy2 due to the fact that my setup, a Z560 uses analog connection. Soundstorm is only, well, Soundstorm when you have a external DAC connected to it. Otherwise, it'll still use the on-board Realtek DAC on my 8RDA+ to decode sound to its analog outputs.

I was able to hear a great deal of difference by switching to the Audigy2.. fuller sound and significantly less background hiss/buzz/noise on my speakers, not to mention that it sounds much better in games (EAX). I turn EAX off for my music however.

Generally, my thoughts are: Soundstorm (When output via DD stream) ~= Audigy1 < Audigy2

Although I know that you are comparing between nforce1 and Audigy2, here is still some interesting read.

yeah but there must be converters you can order online or get at radio shack to allow your Z-560's to connect digitally. keep in mind that Logitech Z series speakers have DAC's in each individual speaker, which means they were meant to receive digital signals one way or another, although the easier option of plugging them straight into analog-out exists. your Logitech Z-560's are the external DAC's you are referring to above in order to reap the full benefits and quality of Soundstorm.