Daniel Holtzclaw cries like a bitch

[Darwin333]

If I may digress, while I am an opponent of the death penalty, I think there's a compelling argument that it's misused by only being applied in cases of murder. Murder has a significantly lower rate of recidivism than many other crimes, particularly (relevant to this discussion) sex crimes. Among sex criminals, the category of offender most likely to re-offend is men who rape adult strangers (contrary to the common misconception that child molesters are the likeliest). Also, sex crimes have a much longer "tail" than murder, in that the victims are themselves likelier to commit crimes and/or suffer from mental illness and addiction, whereas murder victims are, by definition, not going to hurt anyone or suffer any longer.

I have always thought the same thing. I know a violent rape survivor and she calls the day she was raped the last day of her life. She's been in and out of rehab for drugs, was at one point prostituting herself just to get high and to this day has some serious mental problems. Luckily she finally found a husband who ensures that she gets the quite extensive and lifelong mental healthcare that she needs but in her case there is an argument that it would have been better for her had he just killed her. Yet the offender got a sentence lighter than most murders committed as crimes of passion. The murderer only committed the act because of a very special circumstance and isn't likely to do it again. I can't say the same for the rapist, he basically picked her randomly so he is surely going to be in the same position again.

I'm personally not a fan of the death penalty, especially as we currently do it. It costs more than just locking them up for life and we have gotten it wrong before many times that we know and surely many times we don't. Wrongfully killing someone is by definition murder and we put people in jail and to death for it but when the state does it they just say "ooops, our bad".... With enough evidence to know 100% sure and beyond all doubt, much more than simply beyond a reasonable doubt, I would be for it. BTW, relying on only eyewitness testimony is NOT beyond all doubt, this has been proven fact. In those cases, again beyond all doubt whatsoever, skip all the bullshit and hang them within a few months of sentencing. Save the rope for reuse.

 

[Blackjack200]

Your opinion.
An eye for an eye I say.

Aye, it is.

And the opinion of every person I consider decent.

 

[JSt0rm]

i must of missed this. Can someone give me a 2 sentence run down on what this guy did exactly?

 

[Brainonska511]

i must of missed this. Can someone give me a 2 sentence run down on what this guy did exactly?

From what I remember reading, this guy was a cop who used his position and threats of arrest, etc, to sexually abuse and assaulted people on the margins of society (i.e. people who wouldn't be believed if they accused a cop).

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35068364

Daniel Holtzclaw, 29, stopped the women while out on patrol, searched them and then forced himself upon them.

 

[Darwin333]

Raping a minor? I understand what the law says, that's why I said in my opinion. Someone who does this type of crime, for this length of time, does not deserve to live to me. I certainly don't want to pay for him to live for 60 more years.

Also, cops should be held to a higher standard. He knew full well what he did was illegal and wrong more than most. He prayed on certain types of people. He did terrible things. There is a higher penalty to criminals for crimes committed against cops than the normal citizen such as assault and killing a cop, I think there should be a higher penalty for when cops commit crimes. If a cop is caught stealing something, they should receive a higher penalty than the average citizen. Again, just my opinion.

Wow! I must give you a ton of credit Ackmed. As much as you and I go back and forth in threads about bad cops I really didn't expect this from you. I completely agree btw especially since most cops who commit crimes use their badges, and therefore authority of the law, to help commit those crimes. Further they are given a metric shitton more leeway than civilians and as such should be held to a much higher standard.

Just like this case, the asshole used his state issued badge, gun and authority that goes with it to commit his rapes and to intimidate his victims into not reporting them. So for once I whole heatedly agree with Ackmed, his punishment should be greater than a civilian who committed similar crimes.

I will say that as much as you don't want to pay for him to breath and eat for the next 60 years it would cost you more to put him to death in our current system of justice. It doesn't sound right but it is.

 

[Darwin333]

i must of missed this. Can someone give me a 2 sentence run down on what this guy did exactly?

He basically went into a poor black part of town and used his badge and gun to rape women and then intimidate them into not talking. This includes raping a 17 year old girl on her mothers porch, forcing women to blow him in his patrol car, etc... He generally preyed on women with criminal histories so they were less likely to be believed if one did come forward.


Sorry, 3 sentences.

 

[JSt0rm]

From what I remember reading, this guy was a cop who used his position and threats of arrest, etc, to sexually abuse and assaulted people on the margins of society (i.e. people who wouldn't be believed if they accused a cop).

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35068364

he grandmother said she was driving home late at night when Holtzclaw pulled her over, asked if she had been drinking and then told her to get into his squad car and and ordered her to perform oral sex.

lmao. What a weird fuck this dude is.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Well, he likes raping black women. Let's see how much he enjoys being raped by black men. He's going to be begging for solitary after one day in with the gangs.

 

[Darwin333]

I thought the death penalty for rape was ruled to be unconstitutional?

I just looked it up and was wowed by what I read in the decision:

Rape is a serious crime – "short of homicide, it is the ultimate violation of self." It typically involves violence and injury, both physical and psychological, but the Court denied that it involves "serious" injury.[5] "Rape is without doubt deserving of serious punishment; but in terms of moral depravity and of the injury to the person and to the public, it does not compare with murder, which does involve the unjustified taking of human life." In light of these facts, the Court concluded that death was an excessive punishment for "the rapist who, as such, does not take human life."

Seriously???

 

[waggy]

I am for capital punishment in rare cases. Personally i feel this one fits. He can't be redeemed. He got a job where he knew he could use his power and very few would believe the accusations and if any did that there would be a good chance of covering them up.

he raped many women. this wasn't a 1 or 2 women it was constant.

while him sitting in jail for life is good a bullet in the head would be better.

 

[JSt0rm]

if we want to get medieval about it rape has been a pretty normal state of affairs for humans and animals for most of history. Women soldiered on for the last 40k years being subjected to all kinds of horrible things. Justice is removing someone from society for doing something. The death penalty is all about revenge not justice.

 

[Darwin333]

if we want to get medieval about it rape has been a pretty normal state of affairs for humans and animals for most of history. Women soldiered on for the last 40k years being subjected to all kinds of horrible things. Justice is removing someone from society for doing something. The death penalty is all about revenge not justice.

I think that there is an argument to be made that for people who can not possibly be rehabilitated that the death penalty is simply a permanent way of removing them from society. There is also an argument to be made that certain people remain a threat even if it is just to other prisoners who the state is duty bound to reasonably protect. Isolation is in fact psychological torture so what do you do with those that continue to kill and rape in prison? Or should we no longer be worried about people once they are imprisoned?

 

[JSt0rm]

pretty sure this little ball of fat and salty tears wont be a threat to anybody.

 

[Darwin333]

pretty sure this little ball of fat and salty tears wont be a threat to anybody.

Plenty of people in jail for life are though, you avoided my point entirely.

 

[JSt0rm]

Plenty of people in jail for life are though, you avoided my point entirely.

I assumed we were talking about this dude. Anyways the prisons have ways of dealing with problem people. Its been this way. My cousin did 4 years and has no horror stories or crazyness. If you pick fights and shit then you will either win your fight or lose. Most people arent looking to add more time on to fuck you up. Those that are in for life are all in the same area together and they get solitary if they fuck up. Solitary will fuck your brain up.

 

[DrDoug]

As much as this man deserves to spend many a year in prison for what he has done, he shouldn't be facing sexual assault in prison and it is disgusting that we as a society allow such things to happen in prison and make light of it.

Yes it is wrong but it's also a well known fact that too many have no problem with. Too many prisons don't give a crap about it either and cops like this guy had no problem busting people to send there. He knew what he would be facing if he was caught and yet it did not deter him. Why? Because he thought that he was safe because he was an officer of the law.

That's why I have no problem mentioning it in cases like this, he earned it and the system he worked for approves of it.

 

[EOM]

Yup, we are so much better than those 3rd world muslim shitholes where they stone people to death and shit. We don't stone people or anything we just want them sodomized daily for the rest of their lives....

P!

But the Muslims will stone you for a non crime... with no victim. Raping girls creates victims=crime.

 

[SheHateMe]

He is disgusting. I hope they beat the shit outta him in Prison.

 

[master_shake_]

why waste taxpayer money on this guy.

he's a lost cause.

not even being a police officer could keep him out of jail.

waste him.

 

[disappoint]

I assumed we were talking about this dude. Anyways the prisons have ways of dealing with problem people. Its been this way. My cousin did 4 years and has no horror stories or crazyness. If you pick fights and shit then you will either win your fight or lose. Most people arent looking to add more time on to fuck you up. Those that are in for life are all in the same area together and they get solitary if they fuck up. Solitary will fuck your brain up.

That's not true. What solitary confinement will do is expose or exacerbate the mental illness that is already present in these individuals. It's not the cause of it.

Veritasium's "Can Silence Actually Drive You Crazy?":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXVGIb3bzHI

 

[mikeymikec]

Resurrecting an old thread here, but I'm confused about something (and I'm not from the US so potentially cut me some slack please):

In December 2015 he gets told that he's guilty of various offences and what the jail times he's going to get for each one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inVPAczVapo

However he's in the news again and on Wikipedia it says this:
On December 10, 2015, an all-white jury convicted him on 18 of 36 charges, and on January 21, 2016 he was sentenced to 263 years in prison.

Surely he was sentenced in December?

 

[Brainonska511]

Resurrecting an old thread here, but I'm confused about something (and I'm not from the US so potentially cut me some slack please):

In December 2015 he gets told that he's guilty of various offences and what the jail times he's going to get for each one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inVPAczVapo

However he's in the news again and on Wikipedia it says this:
On December 10, 2015, an all-white jury convicted him on 18 of 36 charges, and on January 21, 2016 he was sentenced to 263 years in prison.

Surely he was sentenced in December?

I think the jury recommends sentencing, but it is the judge who actually decides the final sentence. It depends on the jurisdiction, but that seems to be the case here.

 

[ctark]

He also requested a new trial just the other day. Probably won't get it.

 

[mikeymikec]

I think the jury recommends sentencing, but it is the judge who actually decides the final sentence. It depends on the jurisdiction, but that seems to be the case here.

But the judge was reading out the jail times... <still don't get it>

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Resurrecting an old thread here, but I'm confused about something (and I'm not from the US so potentially cut me some slack please):

In December 2015 he gets told that he's guilty of various offences and what the jail times he's going to get for each one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inVPAczVapo

However he's in the news again and on Wikipedia it says this:
On December 10, 2015, an all-white jury convicted him on 18 of 36 charges, and on January 21, 2016 he was sentenced to 263 years in prison.

Surely he was sentenced in December?

Not in this case. The judge can sometimes hand down sentencing at the time of conviction. In many cases the judge will gather additional information, read reports from a parole/rehabilitation officer and hold additional hearings before deciding on the sentence. In a case this egregious it's surprising that the judge didn't slap him with the max right away, but our justice system is so convoluted and so appeal-able that the judge probably wanted to cross every 't' and dot every 'i' just to reduce the chance of the sentence getting reduced or overturned later on.