Dark Knight movie/plot discussion

[moshquerade]

why did they have to call him "The" Batman? It sounded odd.

and who is going to play the Joker in the sequel?

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
and who is going to play the Joker in the sequel?

He'll probably be safely locked away in Arkham for awhile .

I actually rewatched the original Batman the other day and I have to say... ignoring the obviously bad 80s special effects, Dark Knight is deeeeefinitely a better movie. Of course, I'm probably biased since I cannot, for the life of me, stand the Vicky Vale character in the movie with how she fucking screams at least once every damn minute. I also didn't find myself a huge fan of Nicholson's Joker.

 

[wahoyaho]

Wasn't Jim Carey the Joker?

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: wahoyaho
Wasn't Jim Carey the Joker?

He was The Riddler.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
why did they have to call him "The" Batman? It sounded odd.

He's called that in the comics too.

 

[mAdMaLuDaWg]

Just saw it last night in IMAX. While I liked Begins better in terms of the plot, I think Heath's performance single handedly stole the show. I like it that much!

On another note, did anyone else catch the numerous times the camera focused on Salitori's (the lead mobster) cane. They focused on it a lot, especially before Harvey Kills him. Reminded me of The Penguin's umbrella.

Anywho, for everyone making fun of Christian Bale's voice... catch this youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2yv8aT0UFc

 

[jonks]

In retrospect the Maggie Gyllenhal casting makes perfect sense. I mean, if Nolan wrote in Rachel's death to be a tragic murder, it wouldn't exactly help to have the audience stand up and cheer when Katie Holmes got blown to bits.

 

[Joemonkey]

His voice sounds like assy mcgee

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: moshquerade
and who is going to play the Joker in the sequel?

He'll probably be safely locked away in Arkham for awhile .

I actually rewatched the original Batman the other day and I have to say... ignoring the obviously bad 80s special effects, Dark Knight is deeeeefinitely a better movie. Of course, I'm probably biased since I cannot, for the life of me, stand the Vicky Vale character in the movie with how she fucking screams at least once every damn minute. I also didn't find myself a huge fan of Nicholson's Joker.

No doubt. Nostalgia is about the only thing the 80s Batman has going for it against the current series. I was just watching Batman Returns recently, and even the exterior scenes seemed like they were shot on a soundstage. Everything felt cartoonish and not real. Bad special effects weren't the reason for that, it was just a different tone.

 

[OCGuy]

Seriously...the voice....

 

[mugs]

I don't know why you're all whining about the voice. It's all in your head.

 

[Kaido]

Just got back from the movie. We had a tough crowd...we were among the 3-4 people who laughed at the funny parts in the beginning. It was so silent, I actually stopped laughing because it felt so awkward I think people were too scared or shocked. That and I sat next to two giggling teenage girls who kept taking pictures of the screen with their cell phones and texting people :|

I think Heath Ledger did an amazing job. You can usually "see" the actor beneath the character...I couldn't tell it was Ledger at ALL. He did an amazing job...he really came across as psychotic.

What was up with the MUSIC? There was ZERO pulse-pounding music during the big car chase scene...it felt slow and orchestrated...TOO slow! I also felt there were a couple weak plot points...number one, Harvey Dent flipped to the dark side too easily. The Joker's logic didn't convince me. Number two, Morgan Freeman quit too easily. Who wouldn't sift through a million people's phone surveillance systems to save hundreds of lives? He just kinda...quits. That's a pretty lame line in the sand, imo. I think they had a difficult time because the editing was probably a bit rushed and they couldn't shoot new Joker scenes without Heath. And yeah, Batman's voice was waaaay too deep sometimes. And his mask looked stupid. It made his face look wide and was too round...I liked the last movie's mask, more angles and sharper instead of smooth.

The bat bike was awesome! I also like the Joker's logic...you clearly saw how his plans worked, but the fun part was seeing how different characters would react to the situations they were put into.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Just got back from the movie. We had a tough crowd...we were among the 3-4 people who laughed at the funny parts in the beginning. It was so silent, I actually stopped laughing because it felt so awkward I think people were too scared or shocked. That and I sat next to two giggling teenage girls who kept taking pictures of the screen with their cell phones and texting people :|

I think Heath Ledger did an amazing job. You can usually "see" the actor beneath the character...I couldn't tell it was Ledger at ALL. He did an amazing job...he really came across as psychotic.

What was up with the MUSIC? There was ZERO pulse-pounding music during the big car chase scene...it felt slow and orchestrated...TOO slow! I also felt there were a couple weak plot points...number one, Harvey Dent flipped to the dark side too easily. The Joker's logic didn't convince me. Number two, Morgan Freeman quit too easily. Who wouldn't sift through a million people's phone surveillance systems to save hundreds of lives? He just kinda...quits. That's a pretty lame line in the sand, imo. I think they had a difficult time because the editing was probably a bit rushed and they couldn't shoot new Joker scenes without Heath. And yeah, Batman's voice was waaaay too deep sometimes. And his mask looked stupid. It made his face look wide and was too round...I liked the last movie's mask, more angles and sharper instead of smooth.

The bat bike was awesome! I also like the Joker's logic...you clearly saw how his plans worked, but the fun part was seeing how different characters would react to the situations they were put into.

Your last point is one of the truest in regards to Joker's plans that weren't plans. And I still say his reaction at the end when neither boat blew up was the greatest. It really seemed to me that Joker was completely shocked, with him obviously expecting one to blow up.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
I finally saw this movie and I'm sorry to say it is WAAAAAY over hyped. People got my hopes up way too much. The first hour and a half was great but then it dragged after that. The movie dwelled on two-face for much too long. They should have ended it when to-face killed those people and set up for the next movie. Heath Ledger was good in the movie but not Oscar good. I'm sure that other people could have played it. It was a good movie but not as good as everybody played it out to be.

Hah, I actually thought it was the other way around...I thought it picked up during the last half of the movie! The beginning felt too slow, not enough action, and NO FREAKING MUSIC. I thought Ledger was fantastic, one of the best performances I've seen on-screen. I do think it was over-hyped...I was hoping it would live up to the hype, and to some extent it did, but not as much as I wanted it to.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Ledger did a fantastic job - he actually deserves an oscar for it. And they didn't make the Joker look like a crazy businessman this time - they actually made him look and act completely insane.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Kaido
I also felt there were a couple weak plot points...number one, Harvey Dent flipped to the dark side too easily.

They did start to show him lose his cool after he thought Gordon had died. Even though he never would have gone over the edge because his coin wasn't yet scarred, he did resort to the lowered tactics...

The Joker's logic didn't convince me.

The Joker isn't supposed to be logical, perhaps that's why you state you like it...

I also like the Joker's logic...

Number two, Morgan Freeman quit too easily. Who wouldn't sift through a million people's phone surveillance systems to save hundreds of lives? He just kinda...quits. That's a pretty lame line in the sand, imo.

Quit too easily? To quit he had to be on board with the idea in the first place, which he never was. This can go pretty deep into morality debate, but Fox (Freeman) simply had his principals...just like Batman won't ever take justice into his own hands and purposefully take a life, Fox was unwilling to use the power save for the one special instance.

I think they had a difficult time because the editing was probably a bit rushed and they couldn't shoot new Joker scenes without Heath.

Filming was completely finished with (at least any scenes with the joker) long before Heath died...

And his mask looked stupid. It made his face look wide and was too round...I liked the last movie's mask, more angles and sharper instead of smooth.

Sacrificing form for function - this batsuit was the very first one of any of the films that actually allowed him to turn his head independent of his torso...

 

[T9D]

They over do the hell out of music in movies. It's one thing that annoys me anymore. I thought it was much better with less music. They concentrate and focus on other things. Not just drown everything out with music. That was one thing that helped impress me. It helped them make a more artistic style. What a refreshing change.

 

[Dirigible]

Saw it last night and was bored. I enjoyed the first half, but lost interest in the second. Stopped being swept along with the movie and started thinking about what sorts of tricks in the script and musical score were being used to try to build tension. Started wondering what time it was but couldn't check because I didn't want my phone to be distracting to others. I would've walked out if I'd known I had so much longer to go.

Dang. Would've much rather enjoyed it. The filmmakers definitely created a gritty feel and had some strong characters - there was some impressive talent on display. Just didn't work for me. Only the second movie I've seen in a theater all year, too.

 

[jiffer]

I think someone asked earlier how much time is supposed to have passed between the two movies. The answer can be found in the Joker's dialogue when he crashes the gangsters' "little group therapy session" (as he calls it). He says, "Let's wind the clocks back a year..." Batman has been fighting crime in Gotham for about a year. (Funny that Bruce's next birthday wasn't mentioned, unless I missed it.)

I've been wondering. When the Joker visited Harvey in the hospital room, the Joker gave his gun to Harvey and even pointed it at his own head. He was going to LET Harvey kill him. When Harvey indicated that he would let the coin flip determine the Joker's fate, the Joker said, "That's more like it!" Obviously, the coin toss was in the Joker's favor, so Harvey didn't shoot him. But I wonder, if the coin toss had not been in the Joker's favor, would he have stopped Harvey from shooting him, or was he crazy enough to accept the coin toss? If he was really that crazy...that's REALLY crazy.

I assume that after the coin toss decided that the Joker would live, Harvey was finished with the Joker and had no more plans for revenge. He moved on to his next victims to see what fate the coin would decide for them. Or is there any reason to think that he would have gone back after the Joker later?

 

[Dirigible]

Originally posted by: jiffer

...

I've been wondering. When the Joker visited Harvey in the hospital room, the Joker gave his gun to Harvey and even pointed it at his own head. He was going to LET Harvey kill him. When Harvey indicated that he would let the coin flip determine the Joker's fate, the Joker said, "That's more like it!" Obviously, the coin toss was in the Joker's favor, so Harvey didn't shoot him. But I wonder, if the coin toss had not been in the Joker's favor, would he have stopped Harvey from shooting him, or was he crazy enough to accept the coin toss? If he was really that crazy...that's REALLY crazy.

...

With regards to this question, yes I believe the Joker would've let Harvey kill him. When Batman was bearing down on the Joker on his motorcycle, the Joker kept saying, "Come on, do it," or something like that, indicating he wanted to Batman to kill him by running him over with the motorcycle. So I do believe the Joker had some desire to be killed, at least at times.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: jiffer


I assume that after the coin toss decided that the Joker would live, Harvey was finished with the Joker and had no more plans for revenge. He moved on to his next victims to see what fate the coin would decide for them. Or is there any reason to think that he would have gone back after the Joker later?

I don't think Harvey would go after Joker afterwards. He made him see the darkness and he embraced it. I think he would feel more sympathy for Joker than hate

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Dirigible

Originally posted by: jiffer

...

I've been wondering. When the Joker visited Harvey in the hospital room, the Joker gave his gun to Harvey and even pointed it at his own head. He was going to LET Harvey kill him. When Harvey indicated that he would let the coin flip determine the Joker's fate, the Joker said, "That's more like it!" Obviously, the coin toss was in the Joker's favor, so Harvey didn't shoot him. But I wonder, if the coin toss had not been in the Joker's favor, would he have stopped Harvey from shooting him, or was he crazy enough to accept the coin toss? If he was really that crazy...that's REALLY crazy.

...

With regards to this question, yes I believe the Joker would've let Harvey kill him. When Batman was bearing down on the Joker on his motorcycle, the Joker kept saying, "Come on, do it," or something like that, indicating he wanted to Batman to kill him by running him over with the motorcycle. So I do believe the Joker had some desire to be killed, at least at times.

Joker wasn't exactly suicidal, he wanted Batman to break his rule and hit him (thus more than likely killing him). He didn't necessarily want to beat Batman, he just wanted to break him...he wanted to do the same with Harvey, although I get the feeling he could have easily used a a trick gun in case Harvey actually did pull the trigger...of course I don't think we'll ever really know for sure, but its probably best to take that scene at face value.

 

[oddyager]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Just got back from the movie. We had a tough crowd...we were among the 3-4 people who laughed at the funny parts in the beginning. It was so silent, I actually stopped laughing because it felt so awkward I think people were too scared or shocked. That and I sat next to two giggling teenage girls who kept taking pictures of the screen with their cell phones and texting people :|

I think Heath Ledger did an amazing job. You can usually "see" the actor beneath the character...I couldn't tell it was Ledger at ALL. He did an amazing job...he really came across as psychotic.

What was up with the MUSIC? There was ZERO pulse-pounding music during the big car chase scene...it felt slow and orchestrated...TOO slow! I also felt there were a couple weak plot points...number one, Harvey Dent flipped to the dark side too easily. The Joker's logic didn't convince me. Number two, Morgan Freeman quit too easily. Who wouldn't sift through a million people's phone surveillance systems to save hundreds of lives? He just kinda...quits. That's a pretty lame line in the sand, imo. I think they had a difficult time because the editing was probably a bit rushed and they couldn't shoot new Joker scenes without Heath. And yeah, Batman's voice was waaaay too deep sometimes. And his mask looked stupid. It made his face look wide and was too round...I liked the last movie's mask, more angles and sharper instead of smooth.

The bat bike was awesome! I also like the Joker's logic...you clearly saw how his plans worked, but the fun part was seeing how different characters would react to the situations they were put into.

Fox didn't quit. He threatened to if Batman was going to keep that surveillance system online. It was later destroyed after Fox keyed in his name (that's why Batman asked him to do that).

 

[amoeba]

Joker's goal was to sow chaos and to corrupt both batman and Dent so he wouldn't have minded if Dent pulled the trigger inthe hospital.

Remember how he laughed and smiled when he fell off the building.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: moshquerade
why did they have to call him "The" Batman? It sounded odd.

He's called that in the comics too.

I guess if I had read them I'd know why.
Still... weird, but I guess it's "The" Joker too.