Dark Knight movie/plot discussion

[finite automaton]

I think Batman's voice was a little overkill...

 

[jiffer]

Originally posted by: finite automaton
I think Batman's voice was a little overkill...

He growls and hisses like an animal in the comic books. It's supposed to give the impression that he's not completely human. When you read a comic book and imagine those sounds in your mind, they're perfect. Unfortunately, a movie with a human actor is limited by the actor's human voice, so it's probably impossible to get the sounds just right.

 

[JujuFish]

I still don't like Bale as Batman, but everything else about the movie was great.

 

[JujuFish]

Originally posted by: Estrella

Originally posted by: geno

Originally posted by: Estrella

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
Right before the bomb went off and killed Rachel, wasn't batman going to save her? Did Joker give him the wrong address so he ended up saving Harvey?

Yes.

Are you sure? I thought Batman told Two Face he saved him because the city needed him?

After the fact, yes. However, Batman clearly went to save Rachel when the addresses were given by the Joker.

Bruce Wayne is one of the most intelligent humans in the DC universe. He knew what the Joker did.

 

[andylawcc]

very good analytical skill jiffer

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: JujuFish
He knew what the Joker did.

proof?

the only hint I got from the movie that would suggest your point is Batman didn't shutter when he found out it was Harvey instead.

 

[Svnla]

Pretty decent flick.

Comments:

The guy with the bag on his head is back for a minute or two and then gone <just like the first movie>, the cops in the movie are some of the worse/dumbest/worthless cops I ever see in a movie. They drive the truck while the Joker shoots at them like on a Sunday brunch without any evation actions or fight back. Except for Gordon, most of them didn't know what to do.

Joker is crazy but he is pretty much on his own except some help from some two bits criminals but he was able to rig a whole room full of gas/explosives/ect. in the hospital, buildings, and ferries WITHOUT any knowledege from law enforcements?

The accountant must be not so smart to hire some of the losers as bodyguard without any saferoom to hide.

 

[JujuFish]

Originally posted by: andylawcc

Originally posted by: JujuFish
He knew what the Joker did.

proof?

the only hint I got from the movie that would suggest your point is Batman didn't shutter when he found out it was Harvey instead.

It's simply how I interpreted the scene. It was quite ambiguous. On one hand, his love would could make him go instantly for Rachel without thinking. On the other hand, Batman may have realized he was being toyed with and intended to save Harvey Dent all along (not being surprised, not telling Harvey that Joker reversed the addresses, telling Harvey that Gotham needs a hero like him). Then again, I may just be thinking too much into it.

 

[baoytl]

Originally posted by: JujuFish

Originally posted by: andylawcc

Originally posted by: JujuFish
He knew what the Joker did.

proof?

the only hint I got from the movie that would suggest your point is Batman didn't shutter when he found out it was Harvey instead.

It's simply how I interpreted the scene. It was quite ambiguous. On one hand, his love would could make him go instantly for Rachel without thinking. On the other hand, Batman may have realized he was being toyed with and intended to save Harvey Dent all along (not being surprised, not telling Harvey that Joker reversed the addresses, telling Harvey that Gotham needs a hero like him). Then again, I may just be thinking too much into it.

If he thought that, why would he tell Gordon he was going after Rachel?

 

[EKKC]

so i take it theres another guy who know who batman really is? and when bruce wayne saved him he decided to shut up and not blackmail him anymore?

 

[Swag1138]

Don't know if this has been said in this thread, but I'll just say one thing.

Wayne was about to be outed (after an aborted blackmail attempt) by Mister Reese.

Discuss.

 

[JujuFish]

Originally posted by: baoytl

Originally posted by: JujuFish

Originally posted by: andylawcc

Originally posted by: JujuFish
He knew what the Joker did.

proof?

the only hint I got from the movie that would suggest your point is Batman didn't shutter when he found out it was Harvey instead.

It's simply how I interpreted the scene. It was quite ambiguous. On one hand, his love would could make him go instantly for Rachel without thinking. On the other hand, Batman may have realized he was being toyed with and intended to save Harvey Dent all along (not being surprised, not telling Harvey that Joker reversed the addresses, telling Harvey that Gotham needs a hero like him). Then again, I may just be thinking too much into it.

If he thought that, why would he tell Gordon he was going after Rachel?

Did you expect him to sit down to tea and crumpets and explain to Gordon his suspicion that the Joker is tricking them and that he will go to address A and Gordon should go to address B? Saying "Rachel" is quick and gets Gordon to the right place without wasting any time.

 

[baoytl]

Originally posted by: JujuFish

Originally posted by: baoytl

Originally posted by: JujuFish

Originally posted by: andylawcc

Originally posted by: JujuFish
He knew what the Joker did.

proof?

the only hint I got from the movie that would suggest your point is Batman didn't shutter when he found out it was Harvey instead.

It's simply how I interpreted the scene. It was quite ambiguous. On one hand, his love would could make him go instantly for Rachel without thinking. On the other hand, Batman may have realized he was being toyed with and intended to save Harvey Dent all along (not being surprised, not telling Harvey that Joker reversed the addresses, telling Harvey that Gotham needs a hero like him). Then again, I may just be thinking too much into it.

If he thought that, why would he tell Gordon he was going after Rachel?

Did you expect him to sit down to tea and crumpets and explain to Gordon his suspicion that the Joker is tricking them and that he will go to address A and Gordon should go to address B? Saying "Rachel" is quick and gets Gordon to the right place without wasting any time.

Then I agree with your last statement, you are thinking too much into it. You're confusing this Bruce Wayne/Batman with the one from the DC comic universe. He's less a detective and relies mostly on brute force (with help from gadgets) than his intellect. If he was that intelligent and clever, would he not have known Ra's Al Ghul was deceiving him in Batman Begins? or that Joker wanted to be captured as proclaimed by Gordon in TDK? In the end, does it really matter?

 

[jiffer]

Originally posted by: Swag1138
Don't know if this has been said in this thread, but I'll just say one thing.

Wayne was about to be outed (after an aborted blackmail attempt) by Mister Reese.

Discuss.

The Joker did not want Batman to be outed, because losing Batman would spoil all the fun. As the Joker explained near the end of the movie, they "complete" each other, and he could never kill Batman because he's fun to have around. So the Joker made a deal with the people of Gotham: if nobody killed Reese within the next 60 minutes, the Joker would blow up one of the city's hospitals. Several people who wanted to prevent the destruction of a hospital tried to kill Reese, including a man in a large pickup truck who tried to crash into the vehicle Reese was in. Bruce Wayne saved Reese's life by sacrificing his Lamborghini because he would have blamed himself for Reese's death. In other words, the Joker wanted to kill the man who would reveal Batman's true identity, but Bruce Wayne wanted to save the life of man who would blackmail him and reveal Batman's true identity. That's a very interesting contrast.

On the other hand, didn't the Joker threaten to wreak more havoc earlier in the movie if Batman did not reveal his true identity? If so, I think the point was that the Joker wanted Batman to make his own agonizing decision instead of letting some two-bit chump come along and spoil the fun. Especially not some weasel-like lawyer.

Originally posted by: EKKC
so i take it theres another guy who know who batman really is? and when bruce wayne saved him he decided to shut up and not blackmail him anymore?

When Reese threatened to reveal Batman's true identity unless he received $10 million a year for life, that was simple blackmail. When Mr. Fox reminded him that Batman is a vigilante who beats people to a pulp, Reese...reconsidered.

However, when it became clear that the Joker would kill more people unless Batman revealed his own identity, Reese thought the right thing to do would be to reveal Batman's identity before any more people were killed. He wasn't trying to blackmail anyone anymore; he was trying to save lives. Reese must have felt that Batman would not be able to hurt him, or else he was more brave than we thought.

Reese did not expect the Joker to retaliate by effectively putting a price on Reese's head. Like I said earlier, the Joker did not want some weasel-like attorney spoiling the fun he was having with Batman.

This is an awesome movie.

 

[abracadabra1]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Dangerer

Well first off I just have to say that I cannot stand when people try to attribute famous quotes that are at least hundreds of years old to stupid video games and movies and stuff. That is a classic philosophical paradox. Trying to attribute it to a stupid video game like WOW is just insulting, and I would question the intelligence of anyone who would attempt to do so.

Ha.. I thought of WoW too, guess that means my intelligence is questionable and for playing that stupid game. Hope you don't feel too insulted!

yes, FWIW that does make me question your intelligence, its not exactly an esoteric reference out there, I mean if I quoted the preamble of the Deceleration of Independence and someone though it came from a video game wouldn't you think they were pretty dumb? Obviously its not that famous, buts its still something I would expect to be in the knowledge of a well educated person, and clearly so did the producers since they added that reference into the movie.

booo fucking hoo. The fact that he attributes that quote to WoW speaks more about the popularity of the game and the likely young age of the poster. It has nothing to do with his intelligence.

And no, I wouldn't think someone was dumb for not being readily capable of recognizing text from the Deceleration of Independence. I would, however, regard them as a moron for thinking declaration and deceleration were interchangeable.

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: Svnla
Pretty decent flick.

Comments:

The guy with the bag on his head is back for a minute or two and then gone <just like the first movie>

i think he was a fake. like the fake batmen. it was a setup by all of them to try and stop the mobster with the dogs.

 

[jiffer]

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: Svnla
Pretty decent flick.

Comments:

The guy with the bag on his head is back for a minute or two and then gone <just like the first movie>

i think he was a fake. like the fake batmen. it was a setup by all of them to try and stop the mobster with the dogs.

According to the credits, that was actually Cillian Murphy, the actor who played the Scarecrow in Batman Begins. So I believe it really was the Scarecrow. I think he was in the middle of making some sort of deal with the gangster who had the dogs, and then the fake Batman showed up to spoil the deal because he wanted to be a vigilante just like Batman. The Scarecrow knew he was an imposter because he was using a gun. When the real Batman showed up, the Scarecrow said, "THAT's him." Batman tied up all of them so the police could arrest all of them, including the vigilante, because he didn't want any of them on the streets of Gotham.

Scarecrow will be sent to Arkham, but he'll be back. For one thing, the Batman stories always have villains going in and out of Arkham. Furthermore, Christopher Nolan really likes Cillian Murphy, and he will put him on the screen every chance he gets. Nolan actually wanted Murphy to play the part of Batman in the first movie, but Murphy declined because he doesn't have the appropriate physique. Instead, Murphy wanted to play a villain who relied on brains and special weapons to overcome his lack of physical strength. Nolan obliged. Pretty cool, huh?

 

[SoulAssassin]

Originally posted by: cruzer
Anyone else unhappy with the casting of Maggie Gyllenhaal as Rachel? Howard Stern was right - she didn't have the looks to pull it off, her face was literally drooping in some closeups. Maybe the producers realized this and pushed to have her character killed off.

Yes...definitely not hot.

Originally posted by: finite automaton
I think Batman's voice was a little overkill...

Yeah, that got annoying real quick. Bale didn't have the voice to pull it off and it sounded like he was trying too hard to be a badass but it sounded more like he had asthma.

 

[KayoticMunky]

Just got back from seeing the movie. I have to admit, it was awesome! Heath Ledger, I thought, played one of the best Jokers in any of the Batman movies. I wasn't all that impressed with Christian Bale as Batman, either. Had they casted a better Batman, I think the movie would have been even better (hard to imagine but I think it could have been).

 

[Estrella]

Originally posted by: JujuFish

Originally posted by: baoytl

Originally posted by: JujuFish

Originally posted by: andylawcc

Originally posted by: JujuFish
He knew what the Joker did.

proof?

the only hint I got from the movie that would suggest your point is Batman didn't shutter when he found out it was Harvey instead.

It's simply how I interpreted the scene. It was quite ambiguous. On one hand, his love would could make him go instantly for Rachel without thinking. On the other hand, Batman may have realized he was being toyed with and intended to save Harvey Dent all along (not being surprised, not telling Harvey that Joker reversed the addresses, telling Harvey that Gotham needs a hero like him). Then again, I may just be thinking too much into it.

If he thought that, why would he tell Gordon he was going after Rachel?

Did you expect him to sit down to tea and crumpets and explain to Gordon his suspicion that the Joker is tricking them and that he will go to address A and Gordon should go to address B? Saying "Rachel" is quick and gets Gordon to the right place without wasting any time.

Did you not see his look of total surprise/dismay when he saw Harvey sitting in the chair?

 

[Locut0s]

Saw it a few nights ago. Very flawed masterpiece in my opinion but still something of a masterpiece, of it's genre anyway. As it has been said so often Ledger does a fantastic job of the Joker, never a dull scene with him in it. Harvey Dent was nicely done too. Though I thought they wen't a little overboard with Two Face's make-up, he looked too much like the Terminator (hard not to laugh when you see him sometimes). Bale was a bit weak as some have mentioned though not too too bad. The parts that bothered me the most was some of the dialogue. I did not at all care for a lot of the pseudo philosophising that was exchanged between the joker and batman. I know it's exactly the type of dialogue that appears in the comic books but so much of the rest of the movie is NOT like a comic book that these exchanges stick out like a sore thumb to me.

Some of it felt like they pulled the dialogue from a Japanese anime about good and evil and placed it in Ledger and Bale's mouths.

I would not be surprised if Ledger were to get the best actor Oscar for this role though I'm sure there are even better examples of acting for the year that would be just as or more deserving. They will give it to him to honour his death.

 

[gorcorps]

Movie was fantastic pretty much all the way through but of course it isn't perfect. My gripes are minor but they are:
-as already stated, Bale's batman voice makes him sound like a chain smoker and I laugh every time he talks
-after harvey is burned, he has like half his mouth missing but he talks like normal. You would NOT be able to talk normally without all of your lip and it really threw off his character for me.
-Rachel's character seemed quite different in this movie vs. the last. Obviously the actress change will affect it but the character seemed to be played completely different as well.

 

[blodhi74]

Best movie ever

 

[RaistlinZ]

Originally posted by: gorcorps
Movie was fantastic pretty much all the way through but of course it isn't perfect. My gripes are minor but they are:
-as already stated, Bale's batman voice makes him sound like a chain smoker and I laugh every time he talks
-after harvey is burned, he has like half his mouth missing but he talks like normal. You would NOT be able to talk normally without all of your lip and it really threw off his character for me.
-Rachel's character seemed quite different in this movie vs. the last. Obviously the actress change will affect it but the character seemed to be played completely different as well.

Well, it is a comic book. You have to suspend belief a little bit in order to enjoy any superhero movie. In the comics and cartoon series it was never suggested that his speech was dramatically altered, so why do it for the movie?

 

[brikis98]

Good movie. Not amongst the best of all time in general, but definitely one of the best superhero movies ever. Some general comments:

* The movie was surprisingly dark and deep. Unlike Iron Man, which was fun & flash, TDK actually gave you something to think about as you watched. I like a movie that is not afraid to kill off important characters and have a sad ending - that way, you never know what to expect. I really liked the themes of morality depending on the situation, good turning to evil, and lies sometimes being better than truth.

* Ledger did an exceptional job as the Joker. I originally thought everyone was saying this to honor his death and came into the movie expecting a mediocre performance. However, he actually pulled an deliciously dark, creepy, and intriguing villain. Right up there with Hannibal Lecter and Agent Smith for bad guys you enjoy watching. The magic trick scene was brilliant. The multiple stories of how he got the scars were great.

* I thought two face was very well done, but it's a shame he was killed off so quickly. Of course, he might actually be alive, but they gave absolutely no indication of this.

* I like Christian Bale and I think he makes a pretty good Batman, especially when he's acting dark and creepy. I also laughed at his "playboy" scenes which really reminded me of American Psycho.

* Rounding out this awesome cast were Morgan Freeman and Michael Cane, both fantastic in their roles.

* Although you are obviously supposed to suspend your disbelief for superhero movies, there were a few too many things that were a bit too ridiculous or convenient. It's getting a bit absurd for Batman to just run around and beat people up. These guys have guns but they never seem to shoot them. I know that's Batman's thing... but the choreography and filming of the fight scenes was subpar and it just looked dumb. Another issue was that the Joker was always too prepared. The scene where Joker's men take down the helicopter with some cables is a good example: how did they know where the chase would end up? How did they know to be prepared for a helicopter? The Joker also shouldn't have been expecting to be caught, to have a guy with a bomb sown into him, to have people prepared to capture Dent and Rachel and so on. He was just too omniscient. In a similar fashion, the way the Joker was caught was also too "convenient". They lost way too many cops in their brilliant "trap", Batman and Joker's chicken scene was a bit retarded (if batman's goal wasn't to kill the joker, why not capture him rather than almost running him over?), and the whole thing seemed a little trite. Finally, batman's gadgets are getting a little too gimmicky (the whole cell phone thing) and I thought his car and motorcycle thing sucked. I was glad to see them blown up and I hope we get the more classic batmobile instead.

* I was a bit upset that we never got a satisfying beat down of the Joker. I really thought they wasted a brilliant opportunity when they had him in the interrogation room. They set it up so nicely, with batman being in the room behind him, but when he started to beat on him, the Joker just laughed, never bled and turned out perfectly fine. Ok, so he's a psycho and as usual, too well prepared, so he had the upper hand. Fine, so then they have the showdown at the very end on top of that building. You expect Joker to get another beating, but instead, Batman again gets owned by dogs and then beaten with a pipe. In the end, you think he finally kills the Joker, but he actually saves him. Even then, with the Joker hanging on the rope, Batman does nothing. The Joker is just left hanging, seemingly without getting his just punishment.

* Batman's weird sounding voice sucked. Did he have that in Batman begins?