Dark Knight movie/plot discussion

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: andylawcc

Originally posted by: JujuFish
He knew what the Joker did.

proof?

the only hint I got from the movie that would suggest your point is Batman didn't shutter when he found out it was Harvey instead.

He doesn't shutter because he has to save someone. The whole premise is that Joker plays games. He had everything planned out from the start. He is very chaotic, but he is also very organized. Joker knew Batman wanted to save Rachael, so he switched the addresses so he could save Dent. His evil scheme was to expose Dent, who was being precieved as a hero by the city by being the no fear DA, as a corrupt person. If Dent dies, his plan goes to waste. If Dent lives and has his image ruined by being corrupt, everyone goes into panic because they do not know who to trust and the city just begins to fall even more. That is how I understood it.

 

[dmw16]

I thought joker switched the addresses, but it went by so fast that I wasn't sure i heard everything right.

 

[Deadtrees]

I think it'd been great if:

1. Rachel doesn't die in the explosion.
(Joker saved her somewhere else)

2. Unlike what Joker told those people on the ship,
pressing the button actually blows up Rachel.

Batman and Dent together is given another set of remote controller that would blow up the ships.
So, in order to save Rachel, they have to kill those people on the ships.

3. Both of people on the ships press the button, while Batman and Dent are arguing/fighting over what to do.
(Being a coin flipper, Dent again flips the coin. Camera takes full shot of his palm holding the coin. When he opens his palm, it shows that the coin has a face of Joker)
Rachel blows up in front of Batman and Dent.

4. Batman goes maniac along with Dent.

5. Joker jokes about true side of human nature,
persuade Dent&Batman to blow up the ships in revenge of Rachel.

6. Dent does while Batman tries to stop him.
Batman eventually kills Dent a little too late.

7. Batman takes the blame. Becomes the dark knight.

 

[FreshPrince]

wow....um, too complicated? LOL

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: FreshPrince
wow....um, too complicated? LOL

where is the thread with the "thrown out" script? That would have made an awesome movie

 

[KeithTalent]

I was reading a rumour that Phillip Seymour Hoffman is in talks to play Penguin in the next movie. Interesting if true, but not sure how I feel about the Penguin being in one of these new Batman flicks, though if I was going to pick a Penguin it would be PSH.

KT

 

[jpeyton]

Just saw it last night on IMAX.

1) Ledger was brilliant. I didn't find the performance too over the top, and it was very chilling. The scene where he first confronts the mob bosses and drives a pencil through the skull of some mob peon was evil, and set a pretty violent tone for the rest of the movie.

2) Loved the gun play. It felt like a Michael Mann movie. Lots of loud, accurate gunfire.

 

[aiya24]

saw the movie on the evening of the 18th with a group of friends. we filled an entire row, lol. awesome movie! Ledger's performance was excellent, very creepy.

i really don't believe that Dent/Two-Face died at the end. Batman fell the same distance and lived so why can't Two-Face? i believe the storyline should be that he was secretly transfered to arkham to keep his name clean and that he will eventually escape in the sequel.

anyway, its just a thought. can't wait for the next one.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: aiya24
saw the movie on the evening of the 18th with a group of friends. we filled an entire row, lol. awesome movie! Ledger's performance was excellent, very creepy.

i really don't believe that Dent/Two-Face died at the end. Batman fell the same distance and lived so why can't Two-Face? i believe the storyline should be that he was secretly transfered to arkham to keep his name clean and that he will eventually escape in the sequel.

anyway, its just a thought. can't wait for the next one.

Two-Face is definitely dead. It's highly unlikely that Gordon/Batman would have engaged in an elaborate cover-up if he was still alive. But his death made the cover-up a lot easier to handle.

Besides, Two-Face's character lacks the depth necessary to be brought back in a sequel. The coin-flipping revenge angle would get tired quickly if it was played out over an entire movie. Joker's character has much more spontaneity, but he's obviously not coming back either.

A sequel is definitely green-lighted. Nolan will bring back another classic Gotham character.

 

[invidia]

Why is Gordon's wife named Barbara? Isn't that suppose to be the name of his daughter/Batgirl? I noticed he did have a daughter too.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
I was reading a rumour that Phillip Seymour Hoffman is in talks to play Penguin in the next movie. Interesting if true, but not sure how I feel about the Penguin being in one of these new Batman flicks, though if I was going to pick a Penguin it would be PSH.

KT

Agreed. I can barely imagine a Penguin in the new Batman movies. And I can now only picture PSH being suitable for that.
That would be one awesome feat by the writers and actors to make this with an element of belief.
PSH was awesome in MI III.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
When the Joker walked out of Gotham General Hospital with the detonator, and it seemed to run out of batteries, was anyone reminded of Ocean's 11 when Matt Damon and George Clooney are trying to blow open the vault doors?

Did anyone catch the World of Warcraft reference? ("So this is what happens when an Unstoppable Force meets an Immovable Object..."?

When Bruce and Rachel were standing on the balcony of Bruce's apartment together, was anyone reminded of the similar scene in Iron Man with Tony and Pepper?

That isn't the only quote reference in the movie.
I think there was at least one line in the final scene between the batman and joker that was from the original movie, and I'm sure some twoface lines probably made it in as well.

I wonder if Mark Hamill could play the joker, he does the voice for him in the animated series.

Hamill WOULD have been perfect, prior to Heath redefining what the joker is.

The movie tried to follow the comics. If you know anything about the comics, Batman doesn't have the balls to kill Joker since they are dependent on each other. All Bruce Wayne has is Batman. The Batman wouldn't exist if there weren't villains like the Joker. The psyche of the Joker isn't like your normal street criminal.

Batman in the comics has a rule against killing, not any special need for the joker. However, the original Batman had no qualms against killing, and did it quite frequently.

Does the joker ever say for certain how he got his scars? He had a few stories.

Another thing the movie didn't make clear is that the accountant from Hong Kong must have been burned alive when the Joker set the big pile of money on fire. (The accountant was tied up and sitting on top of the pile.) Was that just too gruesome to show?

Maybe you can see if in the imax version.

Based on what the Joker said to Batman in the interrogation cell, he knows that Batman is Bruce Wayne, correct?

He's just good at psychoanalyzing people and realized that Batman has a thing for Rachel.

I thought Nolan learned his lesson from the previous Batman movies that had 47 bad guys at once. There was no need to introduce a second bad guy to the movie.
/q]

There were 3 if you count the scarecrow, though I think he gets away.

But that's how Bruce Wayne really is supposed to be. The Bruce from the animated cartoon was made more mature to be a better example for the kids watching the show. But this is a real Bruce where he puts on show of being an arrogant and carefree playboy to make sure it throws off any suspicion that Bruce could be Batman.

There were a few special episodes where they do show Bruce like that, mainly the movie like specials they had once in a while. (hour long episodes and what not)

Because Gordan had radio-ed in that Batman was responsible for the 5 murders in order to save Dent's image. Gotham needed to remember Dent as a hero, so Batman had to be the fall guy.

Why couldn't the attribute the killing to the Joker and his goons or the mob?

How he became the joker is not covered in the movie, in fact he gives us two completely different stories about how he got his "smile" scars. He tells one person that his abusive father cut him, and he tells another that he cut himself.

In the comic books, the joker has no consistent back story. He says he likes changing his history to keep it exciting or something like that.

 

[Lamont Burns]

This may very well be retarded, but I want to see Crane play The Riddler. Altho, it sounds like that villain may already be excluded.

He wouldn't be the central villain if he played it, doesn't carry enough on his own but it could be decent... I like the dude who plays Crane. Thought he owned in BB.

 

[waggy]

i just got to see it last night. Great story before i watched it i thought people were blowing hedgers perfomence out of wack because he died. not true though he was fricken amazing.


As for batman not killing poeple. he has many times int he comics. he prefers not to unless the situation damands it. The comics have said many times the reason he has not killed the joker is because that would just push him over the edge. turning him over to the cops keeps him on the right side of the law. though he gets closer and closer each time. Same with the joker. he refuses to kill Batman (even though he has had chances to do it)

Wich is what made the duo of Superman and Batman so great. you have one man that could do ANYTHING but wouldnt adn another that would do anything if needed.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: waggy
As for batman not killing poeple. he has many times int he comics. he prefers not to unless the situation damands it. The comics have said many times the reason he has not killed the joker is because that would just push him over the edge. turning him over to the cops keeps him on the right side of the law. though he gets closer and closer each time. Same with the joker. he refuses to kill Batman (even though he has had chances to do it)

Wich is what made the duo of Superman and Batman so great. you have one man that could do ANYTHING but wouldnt adn another that would do anything if needed.

One thing that saves Batman is the fact that he isn't trying to kill, killing would be easy, but that's not justice because justice isn't for him to decide.

Also, these movies aren't the comics. The obviousness of this is that Superman could never and will never exist in Nolan's Batman.

 

[EMPshockwave82]

Originally posted by: jiffer

Originally posted by: sygyzy
2. What is Harvey Dent so upset about that makes him change to Two-Face? Is it that they chose to save him instead of Rachel? Or that there were corrupt people on the force? There were corrupt cops alluded to in the rest of the movie and Dent didn't seem concerned at all. He was all chipper about it.

He was on his way to becoming Two-Face even before he lost Rachel. Remember when he was interrogating the guy who disguised himself as a cop to shoot the mayor? Batman had to intervene because Harvey was about to cross over to the dark side. (He was upset because he thought that Gordon had died, and he didn't think that playing by the rules was doing any good.) Remember when Bruce told Alfred that he was retiring as Batman because he realized that he has to become just like a villain in order to fight the villains? Harvey was faced with the same choice, but unlike Batman, Harvey wanted to throw morality out the window because "doing the right thing" only got people killed, and the only way to fight crime was to put aside compunction and toss the coin, because chance is in control of everyone's lives, anyway. His grief at losing Rachel, losing half his face, and losing the fight against chaos pushed him over the edge, but he was already standing at the edge before he "lost everything". Maybe some of the cops in Gordon's unit recognized that about Harvey, and that's why they knew that deep down, Harvey was always "two-faced". (In these movies, even criminals have terrific insights into other people's character.)

You only watched or remember part of the movie.
When he grabbed Harvey's hand / coin and said "you're going to leave something like that up to chance?" Harvey replied "Not Exactly". The coin is Heads on both sides and he mentioned several times that he "makes his own luck."

Now since we have to explain this to you. This means that Whatever he calls heads is what he wants to happen, whatever he doesnt want to happens he says is tails. get it?

Harvey was just scaing the guy so he could get information he wanted and the guy was getting ready to talk before Batman showed up. He wasnt crossing over to the "dark side," just getting fed up with the attempts on his life.

 

[jiffer]

Originally posted by: EMPshockwave82
Now since we have to explain this to you. This means that Whatever he calls heads is what he wants to happen, whatever he doesnt want to happens he says is tails. get it?

Yes. But you completely missed my point, genius. Harvey Dent was not actually going to kill the guy he was interrogating. Are you sure you knew that before he revealed that his coin always came up heads, or could you be giving yourself too much credit? Anyway, the reason I said that Harvey seemed like he was on the edge is because he was breaking the rules. Good guys do NOT use the sort of interrogation techniques he resorted to. People who use those techniques are NOT "good guys"--they either have no moral scruples to begin with, or else they've been pushed over the edge by their own despair. Harvey Dent had reached the point where he decided that he couldn't be a "white knight" if he wanted to win the fight. He was showing the side of himself that believed that people should use any means necessary to fight their enemies. You know, like "the end justifies the means". Good guys do NOT believe that. If you can't understand that, then I'm wasting my time writing to you.

 

[AUMM]

Originally posted by: EMPshockwave82

Originally posted by: jiffer

Originally posted by: sygyzy
2. What is Harvey Dent so upset about that makes him change to Two-Face? Is it that they chose to save him instead of Rachel? Or that there were corrupt people on the force? There were corrupt cops alluded to in the rest of the movie and Dent didn't seem concerned at all. He was all chipper about it.

He was on his way to becoming Two-Face even before he lost Rachel. Remember when he was interrogating the guy who disguised himself as a cop to shoot the mayor? Batman had to intervene because Harvey was about to cross over to the dark side. (He was upset because he thought that Gordon had died, and he didn't think that playing by the rules was doing any good.) Remember when Bruce told Alfred that he was retiring as Batman because he realized that he has to become just like a villain in order to fight the villains? Harvey was faced with the same choice, but unlike Batman, Harvey wanted to throw morality out the window because "doing the right thing" only got people killed, and the only way to fight crime was to put aside compunction and toss the coin, because chance is in control of everyone's lives, anyway. His grief at losing Rachel, losing half his face, and losing the fight against chaos pushed him over the edge, but he was already standing at the edge before he "lost everything". Maybe some of the cops in Gordon's unit recognized that about Harvey, and that's why they knew that deep down, Harvey was always "two-faced". (In these movies, even criminals have terrific insights into other people's character.)

You only watched or remember part of the movie.
When he grabbed Harvey's hand / coin and said "you're going to leave something like that up to chance?" Harvey replied "Not Exactly". The coin is Heads on both sides and he mentioned several times that he "makes his own luck."

Now since we have to explain this to you. This means that Whatever he calls heads is what he wants to happen, whatever he doesnt want to happens he says is tails. get it?

Harvey was just scaing the guy so he could get information he wanted and the guy was getting ready to talk before Batman showed up. He wasnt crossing over to the "dark side," just getting fed up with the attempts on his life.

I think you're wrong about that. Yeah the coin is heads on both sides, but one side is scarred/burned. I remember in the comics he would always let the coin decide

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: AUMM

Originally posted by: EMPshockwave82

Originally posted by: jiffer

Originally posted by: sygyzy
2. What is Harvey Dent so upset about that makes him change to Two-Face? Is it that they chose to save him instead of Rachel? Or that there were corrupt people on the force? There were corrupt cops alluded to in the rest of the movie and Dent didn't seem concerned at all. He was all chipper about it.

He was on his way to becoming Two-Face even before he lost Rachel. Remember when he was interrogating the guy who disguised himself as a cop to shoot the mayor? Batman had to intervene because Harvey was about to cross over to the dark side. (He was upset because he thought that Gordon had died, and he didn't think that playing by the rules was doing any good.) Remember when Bruce told Alfred that he was retiring as Batman because he realized that he has to become just like a villain in order to fight the villains? Harvey was faced with the same choice, but unlike Batman, Harvey wanted to throw morality out the window because "doing the right thing" only got people killed, and the only way to fight crime was to put aside compunction and toss the coin, because chance is in control of everyone's lives, anyway. His grief at losing Rachel, losing half his face, and losing the fight against chaos pushed him over the edge, but he was already standing at the edge before he "lost everything". Maybe some of the cops in Gordon's unit recognized that about Harvey, and that's why they knew that deep down, Harvey was always "two-faced". (In these movies, even criminals have terrific insights into other people's character.)

You only watched or remember part of the movie.
When he grabbed Harvey's hand / coin and said "you're going to leave something like that up to chance?" Harvey replied "Not Exactly". The coin is Heads on both sides and he mentioned several times that he "makes his own luck."

Now since we have to explain this to you. This means that Whatever he calls heads is what he wants to happen, whatever he doesnt want to happens he says is tails. get it?

Harvey was just scaing the guy so he could get information he wanted and the guy was getting ready to talk before Batman showed up. He wasnt crossing over to the "dark side," just getting fed up with the attempts on his life.

I think you're wrong about that. Yeah the coin is heads on both sides, but one side is scarred/burned. I remember in the comics he would always let the coin decide

But when he was interrogating the man one side of the coin was not scarred. That did not happen until Rachel was killed (she had the coin at the time).

 

[Drekce]

Loved the movie, enough to go see it again (in Imax) next week.

Did anyone notice that after Batman dropped the Italian Mob Boss off of the building (where his legs obviously broke based on the sound) he was walking around normally?

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: Drekce
Loved the movie, enough to go see it again (in Imax) next week.

Did anyone notice that after Batman dropped the Italian Mob Boss off of the building (where his legs obviously broke based on the sound) he was walking around normally?

I noticed him carrying a cane later in the movie.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Drekce
Loved the movie, enough to go see it again (in Imax) next week.

Did anyone notice that after Batman dropped the Italian Mob Boss off of the building (where his legs obviously broke based on the sound) he was walking around normally?

I noticed him carrying a cane later in the movie.

Yep, but in reality, he wouldn't be walking around on a cane so soon after breaking his legs. He'd have casts on both legs and probably would be in a wheelchair.

Small nitpick that does not nothing to take away from how great this movie was though.

 

[anxi80]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Drekce
Loved the movie, enough to go see it again (in Imax) next week.

Did anyone notice that after Batman dropped the Italian Mob Boss off of the building (where his legs obviously broke based on the sound) he was walking around normally?

I noticed him carrying a cane later in the movie.

Yep, but in reality, he wouldn't be walking around on a cane so soon after breaking his legs. He'd have casts on both legs and probably would be in a wheelchair.

Small nitpick that does not nothing to take away from how great this movie was though.

that one didnt bother me as much as harvey dent knowing that he was going to survive the car crash and kill maroni after shooting the driver. so he shoots the driver, straps on a seat belt and just walks out of the accident? im all for seat belts saves lives but c'mon now!

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: anxi80

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Drekce
Loved the movie, enough to go see it again (in Imax) next week.

Did anyone notice that after Batman dropped the Italian Mob Boss off of the building (where his legs obviously broke based on the sound) he was walking around normally?

I noticed him carrying a cane later in the movie.

Yep, but in reality, he wouldn't be walking around on a cane so soon after breaking his legs. He'd have casts on both legs and probably would be in a wheelchair.

Small nitpick that does not nothing to take away from how great this movie was though.

that one didnt bother me as much as harvey dent knowing that he was going to survive the car crash and kill maroni after shooting the driver. so he shoots the driver, straps on a seat belt and just walks out of the accident? im all for seat belts saves lives but c'mon now!

I thought he was removing his seatbelt, as in he was jumping out of the car before the crash. I could be wrong though.

KT

 

[anxi80]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: anxi80

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Drekce
Loved the movie, enough to go see it again (in Imax) next week.

Did anyone notice that after Batman dropped the Italian Mob Boss off of the building (where his legs obviously broke based on the sound) he was walking around normally?

I noticed him carrying a cane later in the movie.

Yep, but in reality, he wouldn't be walking around on a cane so soon after breaking his legs. He'd have casts on both legs and probably would be in a wheelchair.

Small nitpick that does not nothing to take away from how great this movie was though.

that one didnt bother me as much as harvey dent knowing that he was going to survive the car crash and kill maroni after shooting the driver. so he shoots the driver, straps on a seat belt and just walks out of the accident? im all for seat belts saves lives but c'mon now!

I thought he was removing his seatbelt, as in he was jumping out of the car before the crash. I could be wrong though.

KT

even worse!! a guy who was just released early from a hospital by the joker and had half of his face burned off (i wont even get into the exposure to the elements and infection possibilities) is penguin diving out of moving cars?! like i said earlier, i enjoyed the movie immensely and of course expect a few outrageous things but when you overtake my precious 'godfather' movies... its war!