Darwinism and You

[Arcex]

Putting aside the one issue regarding where our species came from, to a certain extent Darwinism seems to exist. Animals evolve over time, clearly, and either become able to cope with their environments better or worse. Clearly this is a process that can be shaped, that's what study in genetics is all about.

So why can't we start applying that to our species? I like to think of it as forced Darwinism. Putting aside the moral and ethical questions, over time we would be able to at the very least lessen certain undisirable traits from our species.

And I don't just mean physical problems, what originally started me thinking about this was my car ride to work this morning. There I am, driving down US 19 in Florida and I look at the stupid people driving alongside me (anyone in Tampa Bay knows how many of them travel that road daily) and I think to myself "Some of these idiots should not be allowed to breed." Well lets apply that, lets work harder to cull stupidity from our gene pool.

I know it's been discussed before, and even attempted before, I've heard at least a couple stories of people paying homeless people, drug addicts and the like to have themselves sterilized, lets expand programs like these on a global scale. Some may call it cruel and unusual, and I think that's half right, it's certainly cruel for the people on the receiving end. There really is no nice way to tell someone they shouldn't be allowed to pass their genetics on, that's a given, but I call it tough love.

As for unusual, Darwinism is hardly the exception, it's the norm. Forced Darwinism may be a bit more extreme but ya know what, in pretty much every species I can think of other than humans the stupid would get killed off faster, thus cleaning the gene pool naturally. But in our species we coddle the stupid and incompetent and elect them to public office, and if that isn't a move in the wrong direction then I don't know what is.

 

[smashp]

The easiest way to cull our species is to have the phones explode massively whenever someone calls to vote for American Idol

 

[Kwaipie]

Master Race Herr Arcex?

 

[imported_Shivetya]

uh, NO

 

[Arcex]

I agree, it's a slippery slope, but I'm not talking about people who will only have blond hair and blue eyes (unless their cheerleaders).

Let me put it this way, in America Democracy can be described as race for the incompetent to get the votes of the stupid. Campaigning long ago stopped being about telling people what you stand for and became telling people what they want to hear to fool them into voting for you. Wouldn't the democratic process run a lot smoother without stupid people clogging up the machinery?

 

[k1pp3r]

Originally posted by: smashp
The easiest way to cull our species is to have the phones explode massively whenever someone calls to vote for American Idol

Lol

 

[ProfJohn]

Somewhere between the start of the OP and the end of the OP a little warning light went on in my head...

 

[ProfJohn]

Just a thought?

All us right wing Christian creationists started out as men created in God?s image.

All you left wing atheist evolutionaries started out as mindless one celled creatures.

Explains a lot huh?

 

[Kwaipie]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Just a thought?

All us right wing Christian creationists started out as men created in God?s image.

All you left wing atheist evolutionaries started out as mindless one celled creatures.

Explains a lot huh?

Makes me question the so called infallibility of God.

 

[piasabird]

Well I will say that Natural Selection or survival of the fittest may be occurring to some extent.

Natural selection is when some members of species die off because they are not able to cope with their environment. Then what you have left is the survivors, which have the right to pass on their genetic makeup to the next generation. This does not mean they are better or worse, it only means they survived.

However, Mankind does his best to overcome this struggle for survival. We strive through social programs and superior medical treatment to keep alive everyone we can. So we are in effect thwarting this natural selection process to a very large extent. We can still commit genocide and wipe out certain races or goups of people or animals, or make it significantly harder for some people to survive. Even all of these efforts did not stop the Jews from surviving the Nazi's and oppression by different groups on our planet. The will to survive is strong among humans.

One other example might be the Jimmy Jones mass suicide. Jimmy Jones was a religious leader responsible for the death of many people he was responsible for moving from the us to South America.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Arcex
I agree, it's a slippery slope,

Yes it is.

but

No "but".

/thread

 

[J Heartless Slick]

Originally posted by: Arcex
Putting aside the one issue regarding where our species came from, to a certain extent Darwinism seems to exist. Animals evolve over time, clearly, and either become able to cope with their environments better or worse. Clearly this is a process that can be shaped, that's what study in genetics is all about.

So why can't we start applying that to our species? I like to think of it as forced Darwinism. Putting aside the moral and ethical questions, over time we would be able to at the very least lessen certain undisirable traits from our species.

And I don't just mean physical problems, what originally started me thinking about this was my car ride to work this morning. There I am, driving down US 19 in Florida and I look at the stupid people driving alongside me (anyone in Tampa Bay knows how many of them travel that road daily) and I think to myself "Some of these idiots should not be allowed to breed." Well lets apply that, lets work harder to cull stupidity from our gene pool.

I know it's been discussed before, and even attempted before, I've heard at least a couple stories of people paying homeless people, drug addicts and the like to have themselves sterilized, lets expand programs like these on a global scale. Some may call it cruel and unusual, and I think that's half right, it's certainly cruel for the people on the receiving end. There really is no nice way to tell someone they shouldn't be allowed to pass their genetics on, that's a given, but I call it tough love.

As for unusual, Darwinism is hardly the exception, it's the norm. Forced Darwinism may be a bit more extreme but ya know what, in pretty much every species I can think of other than humans the stupid would get killed off faster, thus cleaning the gene pool naturally. But in our species we coddle the stupid and incompetent and elect them to public office, and if that isn't a move in the wrong direction then I don't know what is.

At one time Einstein and other people considered to be Jews would have been culled by the people in power.

Also how do you know you are not culling for cultural characteristics and as opposite to genetics?

Be careful of advocating culling because you could be on someone's to do list.

 

[piasabird]

So basically you want to play God?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Just a thought?

All us right wing Christian creationists started out as men created in God?s image.

All you left wing atheist evolutionaries started out as mindless one celled creatures.

Explains a lot huh?

It sure does. And just imagine where we atheist evolutionaries will be in another 1000 years, compared to you stuck-in-time creationists.

 

[blackangst1]

Oh boy. This isnt gonna end well.

/grabs lawn chair and a beer

 

[Arcex]

First, at no point did I advocate culling an entire group of people based on personal views or beliefs, or due to completely cosmetic differences in appearence.

Second, no, I don't want to play God, that's an inaccurate analogy since if that was playing God then it would would mean he was already doing it. Trust me, he isn't.

Third, in regards to the belief that man was made in God's image, I hope that's not true solely because that doesn't say much for the original copy.

And last, I'm not talking about culling the weak and infirm. Yes, I feel that certain genetic defects should be culled but I was thinking a more important issue to work on would be simple stupidity. And the Rev. Jim Jones mass suicide makes an interesting point but hardly relevent, while Jim Jones himself and the organizers of the cult should certainly have been removed from the gene pool his followers shouldn't have had to suffer for Jones' insanity. He kept them doped up on LSD and shrooms, they were hardly in a position to make a reasoned decision about mass suicide.

**edited for typo**

 

[MonkeyK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Arcex
First, at no point did I advocate culling an entire group of people based on personal views or beliefs, or due to completely cosmetic differences in appearence.

Second, no, I don't want to play God, that's an inaccurate analogy since if that was playing God then it would would mean he was already doing it. Trust me, he isn't.

Third, in regards to the belief that man was made in God's image, I hope that's not true solely because that doesn't say much for the original copy.

And last, I'm not talking about culling the weak and infirm. Yes, I feel that certain genetic defects should be culled but I was thinking a more important issue to work on would be simple stupidity. And the Rev. Jim Jones mass suicide makes an interesting point but hardly relevent, while Jim Jones himself and the organizers of the cult should certainly have been removed from the gene pool his followers shouldn't have had to suffer for Jones' insanity. He kept them doped up on LSD and shrooms, they were hardly in a position to make a reasoned decision about mass suicide.

**edited for typo**

Well said Arc. I'm not an expert admittedly, and being a Christian Im on the creationist side of the debate (I realize you arent going down that path though lol
)

I think the denial of an evolution process, in respect to creatures adapting to their environment, is simply ignoring science; however, I honestly dont think humans should try and alter what happens naturally. IMHO. The whole cloning and altering of human genes is just frightning to me.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Arcex
I agree, it's a slippery slope,

Yes it is.

but

No "but".

/thread

Slippery slope is not a valid argument in and of itself.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Arcex
I agree, it's a slippery slope, but I'm not talking about people who will only have blond hair and blue eyes (unless their cheerleaders).

Let me put it this way, in America Democracy can be described as race for the incompetent to get the votes of the stupid. Campaigning long ago stopped being about telling people what you stand for and became telling people what they want to hear to fool them into voting for you. Wouldn't the democratic process run a lot smoother without stupid people clogging up the machinery?

How about we start with you, you dolt.
:disgust:

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Arcex
I agree, it's a slippery slope,

Yes it is.

but

No "but".

/thread

Slippery slope is not a valid argument in and of itself.

In fact it's usually a fallacious one.

It happens to apply well here.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Arcex
I agree, it's a slippery slope, but I'm not talking about people who will only have blond hair and blue eyes (unless their cheerleaders).

Let me put it this way, in America Democracy can be described as race for the incompetent to get the votes of the stupid. Campaigning long ago stopped being about telling people what you stand for and became telling people what they want to hear to fool them into voting for you. Wouldn't the democratic process run a lot smoother without stupid people clogging up the machinery?

How about we start with you, you dolt.
:disgust:

wow didnt take long for the name calling to begin lol

 

[sierrita]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Arcex
I agree, it's a slippery slope, but I'm not talking about people who will only have blond hair and blue eyes (unless their cheerleaders).

Let me put it this way, in America Democracy can be described as race for the incompetent to get the votes of the stupid. Campaigning long ago stopped being about telling people what you stand for and became telling people what they want to hear to fool them into voting for you. Wouldn't the democratic process run a lot smoother without stupid people clogging up the machinery?

How about we start with you, you dolt.
:disgust:

wow didnt take long for the name calling to begin lol

No, there was a Nazi reference way before this.
You just missed it.


Besides, being called a dolt is almost a complement when applied to anyone who would suggest Eugenics as a political solution.

 

[Arcex]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Arcex
I agree, it's a slippery slope, but I'm not talking about people who will only have blond hair and blue eyes (unless their cheerleaders).

Let me put it this way, in America Democracy can be described as race for the incompetent to get the votes of the stupid. Campaigning long ago stopped being about telling people what you stand for and became telling people what they want to hear to fool them into voting for you. Wouldn't the democratic process run a lot smoother without stupid people clogging up the machinery?

How about we start with you, you dolt.
:disgust:

Unfortunately if we bring physical defects into account then I likely would be on the bad genes list due to my gastroesophageal reflux disease issues stemming from a defect in my esophagus.

But since you didn't know that already I can only assume your comments were based solely on my having a different opinion on this subject than you, and since that doesn't advance the topic of conversation in any way kindly refrain from posting if you are not going to contribute.


blackangst1, generally speaking I wish we could let nature take it's course in the whole matter and not have to "change the rules", so to speak, but I'm becoming increasingly concerned that without interference our society is going to continue it's downward spiral.

And thank's for the link about The Bell Curve MonkeyK, I haven't heard of that book, and while I don't agree black people are on average less intelligent than while people it sounds like an interesting read.

 

[Arcex]

Originally posted by: sierrita

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Arcex
I agree, it's a slippery slope, but I'm not talking about people who will only have blond hair and blue eyes (unless their cheerleaders).

Let me put it this way, in America Democracy can be described as race for the incompetent to get the votes of the stupid. Campaigning long ago stopped being about telling people what you stand for and became telling people what they want to hear to fool them into voting for you. Wouldn't the democratic process run a lot smoother without stupid people clogging up the machinery?

How about we start with you, you dolt.
:disgust:

wow didnt take long for the name calling to begin lol

No, there was a Nazi reference way before this.
You just missed it.


Besides, being called a dolt is almost a complement when applied to anyone who would suggest Eugenics as a political solution.

I didn't mean it solely as a political solution, I just pointed out that politics is just one of many areas that would be improved if there was less stupidity in it.