Dash Cam video of Marana Arizona Police cruiser running over suspect

[realibrad]

what this does is highlight once again the violence inherent in the system (to quote you know what)

We live with violent people, that live on a violent planet, that is in a violent solar system, is a part of a violent galaxy that resides in a violent universe.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Fixed that for you.

At what point is it ok to talk to someone before killing them or seriously hurting them

I think it's always always preferable and a moral requirement to talk to someone until they become a threat to others. At the point they become a threat, something needs to be done. At what point does that something become lethal force? I really don't have a definition for that, but it would likely require an eminent threat of death or severe injury to someone...to me firing bullets in the air qualifies.

Shouldn't police assume some risk in dealing with a person? Isn't that their job?

I agree totally. It's why they get paid the big bucks. How about when that person becomes a risk to the innocent bystanders? Firing a bullet into the air starts creeping into that unacceptable risk territory.

I can absolutely see why people can disagree with what happened. Maybe the guy truly meant no harm to others. Maybe he was crying out for help since the mental health resources in this country failed him. That makes it extra sad and it sucks that this happened. Trust me, in most other "cop" threads, you and I are in agreement.

But for once, I can see myself taking the cops' side in that they couldn't possibly know all this and they are now in a situation where they've got a "crazy" guy shooting his gun for unknown reasons and that puts innocent lives in danger.

 

[rommelrommel]

So the guy wanted to commit suicide and you think the solution would be to put holes in him?

If he's trying to commit suicide by forcing the police to shoot him so he will stop shooting off his gun at random targets then yeah, absolutely.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Full time line.

Started with robbing a 7-11. Then proceeded to set fire to a church that was occupied. Broke into a home and stole a car. Drove to Walmart and stole a .30-30 and ammunition. Then when encountered by police he refused to drop his weapon several times, walked away, stopped then pointed his rifle at the officers repeatedly. He then started moving towards fully staffed businesses randomly firing into the air and pointing the weapon at his head.

Having a hard time feeling bad on this one. He was a threat based on the totality of his actions. Not just what is on that video.

This is one instance where I would say the officers did the right thing. That maniac needed to be taken out much earlier in my opinion but I don't know when police finally made contact.

 

[OutHouse]

Fixed that for you.

At what point is it ok to talk to someone before killing them or seriously hurting them?

Shouldn't police assume some risk in dealing with a person? Isn't that their job?

cant you for once use some critical thinking and answer your own dumbass questions?

 

[JSt0rm]

cant you for once use some critical thinking and answer your own dumbass questions?

I have my answers. I wanted to get the inbred southern losers point of view now. Please go on...

 

[Subyman]

what this does is highlight once again the violence inherent in the system (to quote you know what)

I agree that violence is inherent to the enforcement system. They are, indeed, the ones always called when violent acts take place.

 

[JSt0rm]

I agree that violence is inherent to the enforcement system. They are, indeed, the ones always called when violent acts take place.

We could just hire a bouncer for every city block if all we needed was someone to bust heads.

 

[realibrad]

We could just hire a bouncer for every city block if all we needed was someone to bust heads.

So how do you stop a guy who was robbing, car jacking, firing a weapon randomly? I'm guessing its not with the bouncer, but what do you suggest?

 

[JSt0rm]

So how do you stop a guy who was robbing, car jacking, firing a weapon randomly? I'm guessing its not with the bouncer, but what do you suggest?

Surround him and use the loud speaker to start a conversation?

 

[JohnnyGage]

Surround him and use the loud speaker to start a conversation?

Wow. Great answer, either you're trolling or remarkably vacuous.

He was a threat, thankfully no one was harmed physically, he survived and is now under arrest. I suggest you go for a ride along so you understand law enforcement. Cuz you telling cops what to do from behind a desk 1 month after the fact makes you look like a spoiled child.

 

[JSt0rm]

Wow. Great answer, either you're trolling or remarkably vacuous.

He was a threat, thankfully no one was harmed physically, he survived and is now under arrest. I suggest you go for a ride along so you understand law enforcement. Cuz you telling cops what to do from behind a desk 1 month after the fact makes you look like a spoiled child.

Why would a non violent first response be wrong? They can always escalate to crushing someone with their car. But they cant do the reverse.

Also I dont give a fuck to sit with cops in a car. They chose a profession now be professional about it. I dont ask cops to come sit and watch me work.


Edit- No matter how much you wish it to be true, cops arent some special breed of human that deserves better treatment.

 

[Darwin333]

Full time line.

Started with robbing a 7-11. Then proceeded to set fire to a church that was occupied. Broke into a home and stole a car. Drove to Walmart and stole a .30-30 and ammunition. Then when encountered by police he refused to drop his weapon several times, walked away, stopped then pointed his rifle at the officers repeatedly. He then started moving towards fully staffed businesses randomly firing into the air and pointing the weapon at his head.

Having a hard time feeling bad on this one. He was a threat based on the totality of his actions. Not just what is on that video.

I can't find reason to say the officer needs to be charged with any crime or anything but damn that was brutal and he was accelerating damn near to impact. This is one time that I can actually understanding the split second decision making of the officer though.

Not to mention that if that guy had taken a shot at a cop they would have sent a hail of gunfire in his direction and beyond.

 

[JohnnyGage]

Why would a non violent first response be wrong? They can always escalate to crushing someone with their car. But they cant do the reverse.

Also I dont give a fuck to sit with cops in a car. They chose a profession now be professional about it. I dont ask cops to come sit and watch me work.

He has a gun in his hand and is firing randomly, nonviolent response is out the window for any professional police officer. The officer had a chance and took it. Again the suspect survived, though preliminary search I can't find what injuries he had.

Figured you say that, your desk is safe.

 

[dbk]

Quick thinking by the officer!

 

[JSt0rm]

He has a gun in his hand and is firing randomly, nonviolent response is out the window for any professional police officer. The officer had a chance and took it. Again the suspect survived, though preliminary search I can't find what injuries he had.

Figured you say that, your desk is safe.

You can toss insults all you want but I work in private industry and pay for the police force. I should have a small say in wtf they do. My desk is safe? Your point? A cop CHOSE a risky profession. If you don't want a risky profession then don't take one.

We need to alter the training of the police. No more us vs them mentality. No more violence as first action. You can cry about it but its in the news every day. You will have to deal with the populace on a even level very soon.

If you ever want to come try my job I would love to let you try. Ill even post the results of your attempt here for all to see

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Quick thinking by the officer!

As I understand he had no major injuries to no injuries at all. Now do that ten times and that would change.

I think the big issue here is the optics of how it looks. He points the rifle at a cop and they shoot him dead we aren't discussing this beyond "do stupid things, win stupid prizes". In this case suspect rendered neutral, separated from weapon and no one hurt or killed.

 

[JSt0rm]

As I understand he had no major injuries to no injuries at all. Now do that ten times and that would change.

I think the big issue here is the optics of how it looks. He points the rifle at a cop and they shoot him dead we aren't discussing this beyond "do stupid things, win stupid prizes". In this case suspect rendered neutral, separated from weapon and no one hurt or killed.

Hes very lucky if he didnt get hurt.

 

[Humpy]

I think either solution would work. I just like the ramming speed solution better than the typical cop spray and pray, which has a chance of hitting innocents in addition to the suspect. Either way, the intent is to incapacitate the guy and it worked. Do you have a problem with this particular solution?

Yes.

Based on the dash-cam footage the officer had very little idea of what/who was near the suspect, behind the pickup truck, or behind the wall. I don't think the argument that the car smashing put fewer people in danger is valid unless it is assumed that any of the officer's present did not have the ability to accurately make the shot with a firearm. (It in fact may be true that today's police officer's are better suited to smashing stuff with their cars than using their firearms.) None of the other officer's appeared to know what this rogue officer was going to do which increased risk for all involved.

Also, what seemingly could have been done with a few dollars worth of well placed bullets was instead done at the cost of a car and property damage and various overhead costs (insurance etc.).

I expect our police to act with professionalism and without all the drama. Their job is to serve the people, including criminal suspects. Maybe a couple of officers with rifles and another with a bullhorn would give the appearance of an attempt to do things by the book. If the ends (incapacitating the suspect is the main goal?) justify the means where is the limit? Running down suspects with vehicles is acceptable, setting fire to buildings to smoke out suspects is acceptable, how about dropping incapacitation devices from UAV's? It would save precious time and expose officer's to less risk.

 

[touchstone]

Face it, police are too stupid to do anything but kill suspects. We should stop expecting rational thought from them. Any time a cop deals with a suspect and any resistance is met, the response is lethal force. And id they aren't killing people on purpose they're doing it on accident like that 73yr old deputy and the taser.

I wouldn't be surprised if the cop hit that guy on accident. They are terrible drivers.

 

[Harrod]

Its too bad there aren't Toyota police cars, he could have just blamed it on the accelerator.

 

[JohnnyGage]

You can toss insults all you want but I work in private industry and pay for the police force. I should have a small say in wtf they do. My desk is safe? Your point? A cop CHOSE a risky profession. If you don't want a risky profession then don't take one.

We need to alter the training of the police. No more us vs them mentality. No more violence as first action. You can cry about it but its in the news every day. You will have to deal with the populace on a even level very soon.

If you ever want to come try my job I would love to let you try. Ill even post the results of your attempt here for all to see

Not sure what was insulting? Anyway, I believe police are trained in that fashion. It is a stressful job, full disclosure a relative is highway patrol. He saw a dear friend get killed in the line of duty trying to do what you suggest. With cameras everywhere now we just see more of it when back in the day we just had Rodney King. This is a good thing, because that cop in South Carolina would probably be free now(yes he should be in jail). I'm just saying that the offer had a chance and took it, ultimately saved his life and others since if it had gone any further it probably would have been way worse.

We can trade jobs and see who fails worse:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemodialysis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmapheresis

 

[MongGrel]

Solved the problem, I guess.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Hes very lucky if he didnt get hurt.

He's far luckier he didn't get shot dead the first time he pointed his weapon at police.

 

[highland145]

Give it up Johnny. The cop haters (trolls) here will be calling the cops if they need them. They'll be 5+ min away. And, yes, we've had some fine examples of people that shouldn't be near guns or cars or have a badge.